Wages, wages, wages....

[eastie]

as a previous employer nothing bothered me more than seeing me paying for someone sat around doing nothing

they either did something or they left.

I suppose Randy Lerner is just taking the same view of his expensive bench as I did of my managers appointments.

possibly the case but randy sanctioned those wages so must take some of the blame himself for giving mon carte blanche.

[Lowendbehold]

Interesting piece on BBC website about players without clubs. 

PFA say there are 338 players without clubs.  Agent Barry Silkman says internationals like Hitzleberger and Upson highlight situation and a lot of players are going to have to accept whats on offer and face a shock.  There's not a lot of money out there he says. 

NRC certainly miscalculated and had a shock.  Bet he loves it at Bolton.

This window seems different to previous ones. 

[oldtimernow]

well I set the wage margins too and then reset them to take account of managers massaging the figures to make their case.  They said the new staff would improve things so I agreed with their expertise until I actually found that too many lead to everyone leaving it to everyone else to do stuff and consequently things went downhill.

Some of the worst culprits were the established staff too, not all but some thought it was their chance for an easy ride.

[oldtimernow]

I know that something is fundamentally wrong with football when a noname like Rubbish Savage says that with his last paypacket he is going out to buy a Lamborghini

[Mister E]

I cannot for the life of me get our current squad to more than a cost of 45-50million in wages over a season, a full 30 million off what they were last season ... I have estimated at a fair few of them on 50-65k a week. I just don't get how the 90 million turnover being made up of 80 million wages is calculated, and I would like someone to explain it to me. 

I haven't seen your spreadsheet, Ozz, but isn't the difference between your numbers and those published in the last set of accounts simply the income tax / NI that the club pays on behalf of the players? We see weekly earnings as a net figure but I know in 'normal' businesses accounts report salaries and wages as gross; can't see why it would be different for football clubs.

£50m (your figure) + c.11% (NI) + 40% (tax) = c.£75-78m. Since we've lost 4 big earners and several smaller earners since the figures were published, this makes up the difference.

[Lowendbehold]

If that group of clubs with aspirations to Europe, including us have to trim their wage bills to fit EUFAs Fair Play Rules, that will effectt other clubs lower down the food chain.  It might not be cash that the problem.

To coin a phrase, 'Its the wages stupid'.  Players be frightened.

[oldtimernow]

I cannot for the life of me get our current squad to more than a cost of 45-50million in wages over a season, a full 30 million off what they were last season ... I have estimated at a fair few of them on 50-65k a week. I just don't get how the 90 million turnover being made up of 80 million wages is calculated, and I would like someone to explain it to me. 

I haven't seen your spreadsheet, Ozz, but isn't the difference between your numbers and those published in the last set of accounts simply the income tax / NI that the club pays on behalf of the players? We see weekly earnings as a net figure but I know in 'normal' businesses accounts report salaries and wages as gross; can't see why it would be different for football clubs.

£50m (your figure) + c.11% (NI) + 40% (tax) = c.£75-78m. Since we've lost 4 big earners and several smaller earners since the figures were published, this makes up the difference.

How should the club pay the tax bill for the players?
Employers NIC is payable so should be included but not the tax that's an individual liability admittedly paid through the PAYE but should not be included in the accounts.

Its a bit like the argument that some Tax Dodgers were using to say how much tax they were paying by including the tax paid by their employees as part of THEIR contribution.

[UsualSuspect]

I do feel a bit for AM, he's not going to get the honeymoon period most new managers get and is not exactly being backed (so far).

Nobody forced him to come here, I'm pretty sure AM knew the restrictions regarding the resources available, isn't that how we ended up with him, every other manager didn't fancy it. AM took the job on, knowing the stick he would get and knowing he would have to sell first. Even whisky nose Ferguson knew what AM was coming into.

Agree entirely with that

AM came because he doubled his wages and would have been sacked by Small heath before Christmas.

Personally I think AM was bought in purely as a fall guy

[Mister E]

How should the club pay the tax bill for the players?
Employers NIC is payable so should be included but not the tax that's an individual liability admittedly paid through the PAYE but should not be included in the accounts.

Its a bit like the argument that some Tax Dodgers were using to say how much tax they were paying by including the tax paid by their employees as part of THEIR contribution.

I was simply making the point that the weekly wages figures quoted by the media are net of tax and NIC, so in trying to reconcile  the club's total wage bill with the individuals now left on the payroll it is important to add back those deductions to get the full gross amount reported in the statutory accounts.
I wasn't suggesting any malpractice or anything like that.

[maidstonevillain]

I then think that the public statement from the General saying that they would back the manager transfer wise has been a farcical one. I agree, not knowing is difficult as you cannot quantify what has gone and what we expect to still go, but to lose the players we have without actually choosing replacements bar 1, being NZogbia for Downing is harsh. Ireland is not a replacement for Jimmy, we never replaced Barry, and Ash is yet to be replaced. 4 England internationals in their prime gone, only 1 replaced and the club saying they will back the new manager. He is a sitting duck at the moment.

In fairness I think Downing and Delph - two left-footers, a winger and a midfielder, one quite proven, one with bags of potential were ''replacements'' for Barry.
Of Milner, Young and Downing you could say N'Zogbia is in for one of Ash or Downing.
Ireland obviously came as part of the Milner deal. Two very different players. And very different attitudes more to the point. But Makoun also came in during January so you could argue that Ireland and Makoun motivated more than compensate for Milner.

That leaves one of Downing or Young which the club would argue that this has been partly covered by the emergence of the likes of Albrighton and the fact that a new manager with a different way of playing means like for like replacements aren't as necessary/valid....cost-cutting of course but I wouldn't say there's no reasoning in it and ultimately it's what we're going to have to get used to due to Randy's hawkeye on the wage-bill going forward.

But then you could also argue  that Makoun (or Ireland) is a replacement for Sidwell.

And what about the replacements for NRC and Walker.

[cdward]

To coin a phrase, 'Its the wages stupid'.  Players be frightened.

I don't think the players will be "frightened", but we may well have seen a peak in the weekly/monthly amounts being paid. With players wages declining.  This probably explains why the 2 players we have just signed are both on 5 year deals, it is probably that their weekly/monthly take home is less than previously expected, but because of the guaranteed 5 years worth of income, they are still banking the same amount but earned over 5 years instead of 3 or 4.

[Hookeysmith]

The problem at Villa is we are paying alot of average footballers huge amounts, we simply cannot afford to add more wages, however I don't believe that should stop us strengthening, I honestly think next year is when we'll see the best of our club, we'll clear alot of the deadwood, this season may be similar to MON's first, work with what you have, then the likes of Heskey, Young, Petrov, Cuellar, Beye will all hopefully leave that's potentially 250k a week there in wages, then use scouting to find us better players, like would Nathanial Clyne have been any worse than Beye? He would have been 20k cheaper. That's why I would steer clear of Parker and Barton.

I think every Prem club are paying average footballers in their squads huge amounts - we are not unique

Who have Spurs bought? Yet they will lose a huge player for them and probably be followed by the other names as they get frustrated at not having CL football
I think this close season has been the lowest for player activity and as usual its really only the top predator clubs that have bought for top end players

For all our gnashing - imagine being a poor Everton fan

[maidstonevillain]

To coin a phrase, 'Its the wages stupid'.  Players be frightened.

I don't think the players will be "frightened", but we may well have seen a peak in the weekly/monthly amounts being paid. With players wages declining.  This probably explains why the 2 players we have just signed are both on 5 year deals, it is probably that their weekly/monthly take home is less than previously expected, but because of the guaranteed 5 years worth of income, they are still banking the same amount but earned over 5 years instead of 3 or 4.

It's a two way thing. The player has a guaranteed income for 5 years. Villa have potentially better resale income after 2, 3, or even 4 years service, and don't get hit with such high costs if the player is consigned to the reserves.

[Maradona10]

I'd even say Houllier was released due to him wanting to make wholesale changes to the squad which would have proved very costly.

[eamonn]

How should the club pay the tax bill for the players?
Employers NIC is payable so should be included but not the tax that's an individual liability admittedly paid through the PAYE but should not be included in the accounts.

Its a bit like the argument that some Tax Dodgers were using to say how much tax they were paying by including the tax paid by their employees as part of THEIR contribution.

I was simply making the point that the weekly wages figures quoted by the media are net of tax and NIC,

How do you know that? I always assumed it was gross. If you're telling me that Habib Beye is on about £75k a week gross I think I'm going to need a stiff drink.