Wages, wages, wages....

[ozzjim]

Ok, we are talking about this on various topics on the board, but I have done some rudimentary maths, and even an excel spreadsheet. However, I cannot for the life of me get our current squad to more than a cost of 45-50million in wages over a season, a full 30 million off what they were last season. That is even including guestimated costs of Eck and the Eck crew. So - the question I have - how much are they really being paid? I have estimated at a fair few of them on 50-65k a week. I just don't get how the 90 million turnover being made up of 80 million wages is calculated, and I would like someone to explain it to me. The context is that there is no more money to spend on an even more paper thin squad than we had last season and the season before, having moved on a number of the high wage earners and making a small fortune in profits on transfers. What is going on? 2 more players would be approximately 4-5 million on the bill, not unreasonable after what we have shed. From being seemingly supportive of managers, the Generals statement on appointment that McLeish will be supported seems to have been frankly as valuable as the paper it was written on and the side/ squad has some serious question marks. I have not been worried by many of the events this summer, but with a week to go before kick off and us quite categorically saying no more in unless players leave, what the hell are we really paying them?

Anyhow - I have asked enough questions to kick it off - any other ideas, questions, thoughts most welcome!!! Anyone with answers even better.

[Matt Collins]

I don't know mate. But I have been told by a friend who is a former lawyer that footballers tend to be paid a lot more than you'd read from their stated wages, once you take into account goal bonuses and the like. I mean a LOT more.

[Dante Lavelli]

It's a good topic for discussion. I know a mistake that has often been made in the past is making sure the player additions/departures are for the correct set of figures. From memory the accounts your likely to be looking will not be for last season, but actually the season before.

Have you looked on the Swiss Ramble website? This guy does excellent financial analysise of football clubs. Not sure whether he's done one for villa based on the latest  set of figures.

[Phil from the upper holte]

We've got to have cleared a huge chunk off the bill. Nrc, carew, friedel, young, downing, pires.

I think its a case of randy just doesn't want to put up big money which as you say is a piss take considering the general said mcleish would be backed

[Chris Smith]

We were told that we had to cut the wage bill. We've done that, presumably to around the level that they want it to be. If they go out and buy more players without selling then it will increase again.

If, for example, we can move on Beye and Cuellar then their wages will be available for new signings.

[PONGO49]

don't the total wages include everybody at the club, youth team, office staff, stewards and the tea lady....

[ozzjim]

We were told that we had to cut the wage bill. We've done that, presumably to around the level that they want it to be. If they go out and buy more players without selling then it will increase again.

If, for example, we can move on Beye and Cuellar then their wages will be available for new signings.

Do you think though Chris? The balance of the squad is all awry at the moment, and if this is the level, then Eck still needs funds to wheel and deal. Maybe next summer when Beye, Heskey and Luke Young go there will be more scope.

[TheSandman]

What is the optimal figure for wages to turnover? Isn't it about 60-70%?

We have to be a decent amount below that.

[ozzjim]

Even with bonuses I can't see the squad and coaching team much beyong 55 million now. Rest of the club another million or so? At which point if turnover remained 90 million would put us at 60% ish. Plus a decent transfer profit.

[Chris Smith]

We were told that we had to cut the wage bill. We've done that, presumably to around the level that they want it to be. If they go out and buy more players without selling then it will increase again.

If, for example, we can move on Beye and Cuellar then their wages will be available for new signings.

Do you think though Chris? The balance of the squad is all awry at the moment, and if this is the level, then Eck still needs funds to wheel and deal. Maybe next summer when Beye, Heskey and Luke Young go there will be more scope.

Yes, I agree, Ozz, from a purely football point of view we need more bodies but it looks like we might have to make do and hope that he can can the best out of what he's got. The problem we, as fans, have is that we're told that we need to do something about the wage bill but we don't know what the acceptable level is. I can understand why they don't want to make that public but it means that we can never be sure whether or not there's more to come.

[ozzjim]

I then think that the public statement from the General saying that they would back the manager transfer wise has been a farcical one. I agree, not knowing is difficult as you cannot quantify what has gone and what we expect to still go, but to lose the players we have without actually choosing replacements bar 1, being NZogbia for Downing is harsh. Ireland is not a replacement for Jimmy, we never replaced Barry, and Ash is yet to be replaced. 4 England internationals in their prime gone, only 1 replaced and the club saying they will back the new manager. He is a sitting duck at the moment.

[pauliewalnuts]

I then think that the public statement from the General saying that they would back the manager transfer wise has been a farcical one.

I looked at his thread on VT today and was surprised. There were a few mentals screaming and shouting, but there was a decent amount of pretty well argued criticism (not something I'd associate with VillaSquawk).

One of the things that kept on getting mentioned was the fact that the General said (paraphrasing here) "When has Randy not backed his manager", "imagine what AM can do with a supportive chairman like Randy" and "you'll see in the next two weeks how we mean business" (two months ago).

I'm sure he does it with good intentions, but I wonder if he's actually so removed from what goes on at the club these days that he's not really aware of the whole situation re finances?

If this is the case, it is unfair of them to expect him to come out with stuff like that in an attempt to pacify people, because those are the sort of statements that come back and bite you on your arse, and that's what they're doing at the moment.

[PeterWithesShin]

I do feel a bit for AM, he's not going to get the honeymoon period most new managers get and is not exactly being backed (so far).

[ozzjim]

I then think that the public statement from the General saying that they would back the manager transfer wise has been a farcical one.

I looked at his thread on VT today and was surprised. There were a few mentals screaming and shouting, but there was a decent amount of pretty well argued criticism (not something I'd associate with VillaSquawk).

One of the things that kept on getting mentioned was the fact that the General said (paraphrasing here) "When has Randy not backed his manager", "imagine what AM can do with a supportive chairman like Randy" and "you'll see in the next two weeks how we mean business" (two months ago).

I'm sure he does it with good intentions, but I wonder if he's actually so removed from what goes on at the club these days that he's not really aware of the whole situation re finances?

If this is the case, it is unfair of them to expect him to come out with stuff like that in an attempt to pacify people, because those are the sort of statements that come back and bite you on your arse, and that's what they're doing at the moment.

And has he responded, or buried his head in the nearest tank and taken fire?

[Greg N'Ash]

I was expecting them to bring the wages down to pre-MON loads of unplaying reserves level but i'm not sure thats the case anymore. it could well be a DOL type wages bill = not that he didn't have quite a few really well paid average players.