Why we need to stand by the Club, the Chairman, the Team.

[pauliewalnuts]

You're entitled to your opinions, I haven't a problem with that, but you obviously have a problem with people expressing theirs though!

No, I don't at all, the point i was trying to make was that going on about "what do people expect" and "for all those constantly moaning" blah blah blah is patronising in the extreme.

Your point about "relegated before a ball is kicked" is one example, and the original poster's long ramble which seemed to be saying "if you're pessimistic, you're clearly not behind the team and manager" is an even better one.

I am massively uninspired by the managerial apppointment, I think the club is abysmally run, and I think the belief that getting one more signing in and relying on the kids is cause to think we can challenge for top four (see the General's last post on VT) is incredibly wishful thinking and more likely to end up with us as bottom four, but I fucking object to people suggesting I'm in some way "not supporting the manager" or not behind the team. I'll be there in my seat as usual next year, supporting the team, and giving the manager a chance to show I was totally wrong.

As I said, it is patronising guff - the old "better fan than you" argument dressed up in some nonsense about sitting tight, using the kids more and hoping lots of clubs go bust.

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit. Except now there seems to be the implication that we should have an actual policy of doing precisely that.

If it is such an obvious good idea, why weren't these same people saying "hang on, no, I don't think we should be spending 40m on players this summer, I reckon we should be really prudent, sit tight and use the kids instead" when we were spending big money?

Madness.

Incidentally, where did this "divine right to top four" thing come from? I don't think I have ever seen a post which suggested someone thought we had that.

[Concrete John]

I actually think the pessimism is lifting a bit of late.  Most people are happy with Given and also N'Zogbia looks like getting done.  Add to that the win at Walsall, where some of our 'salvage jobs' looked in good nick, and even if not ultra happy with things, some predictions seem to have gone from relegation scrap to mid table mediocrity.

A bad show against Blackburn and the tide will turn.

Don't worry - we can turn that around when we next play them again, which shouldn't take too long

[German James]

This is the second one of these long winded posts this week that seem designed just to get as many people as possible replying "great post!!!!!1111".

great post!!!!!1111

[Risso]

You're entitled to your opinions, I haven't a problem with that, but you obviously have a problem with people expressing theirs though!

No, I don't at all, the point i was trying to make was that going on about "what do people expect" and "for all those constantly moaning" blah blah blah is patronising in the extreme.

Your point about "relegated before a ball is kicked" is one example, and the original poster's long ramble which seemed to be saying "if you're pessimistic, you're clearly not behind the team and manager" is an even better one.

I am massively uninspired by the managerial apppointment, I think the club is abysmally run, and I think the belief that getting one more signing in and relying on the kids is cause to think we can challenge for top four (see the General's last post on VT) is incredibly wishful thinking and more likely to end up with us as bottom four, but I fucking object to people suggesting I'm in some way "not supporting the manager" or not behind the team. I'll be there in my seat as usual next year, supporting the team, and giving the manager a chance to show I was totally wrong.

As I said, it is patronising guff - the old "better fan than you" argument dressed up in some nonsense about sitting tight, using the kids more and hoping lots of clubs go bust.

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit. Except now there seems to be the implication that we should have an actual policy of doing precisely that.

If it is such an obvious good idea, why weren't these same people saying "hang on, no, I don't think we should be spending 40m on players this summer, I reckon we should be really prudent, sit tight and use the kids instead" when we were spending big money?

Madness.

Incidentally, where did this "divine right to top four" thing come from? I don't think I have ever seen a post which suggested someone thought we had that.

I have introduced a new "post of the month" competition, and am pleased to report that you are the very first winner. 

[UsualSuspect]

Pre season friendlies mean a little bit more than jack shit.  Certainly a bit more again when we have a new manager and a potentially new style of play. 

How else do you propose we assess the match fitness levels of players, new formations and the starting 11 with the season only a few weeks away?

Yes you can use them to assess fitness, formations but you cannot read anything into the outcome.

For example the way some were going on about the walsall game I thought we had beaten Real Madrid when in fact it was a shit 1st division team

[Risso]

It was the same when we won the Peace Cup.  Yes it was good, and the young players did well, but when you're in a bad spell in March and the squad is creaking, pre-season games 6 months earlier don't really have any relevance.  The best thing about the Walsall game was probably that it got Mcleish off to a good start and relieved some of the pressure.  Imagine if his first game in charge had been a 3-0 loss to another Premier League team.

[pauliewalnuts]

The thing with friendlies is you can't read anything into them, especially not the very first one, they're of little relevance beyond getting prepped for the season physically.

I also don't think AM was ever going to get the barrage of abuse some thought he would (or that, bizarrely, the Daily Mail thought he actually did get).

The vast, vast majority of people who didn't want to see him appointed are bright enough to realise that throwing abuse at him during matches is going to achieve absolutely nothing. I suspect that includes the vast majority of those who were pointlessly protesting at VP when he got the job.

[Concrete John]

I agree the results of pre-season friendlies matter little, but had we lost to Walsall some on here would be talking of being certainties for relegation, calling McLeish's resignation, Randy's head and Faulkner's public flogging.

[Legion]

Can we tar and feather Faulkner instead, then?

[Merv]

I do feel that beating Walsall by two goals, an encouraging cameo from Ireland, and the impending signing of N'Zogbia (pleasing though that is) is perhaps masking the bigger picture. Tot up the players sold or released in the last 18 months - and be realistic, don't include the half-dozen kids from the end of this season, just first teamers and first team squad members who have left - and then compare with those who have arrived in the last 18 months. Draw your own conclusions; I've drawn mine.

I'll always stand by the club and the team, we can be playing non-league football and I'll always be proud of the Villa. But I do reserve the right to be critical of what's happening and question the direction we're now taking. Prompted by a reference on here, I've just been to another Villa site and read a post from the General... the level of denial, the lack of understanding as to why fans are concerned, and the overwhelming theme of 'nothing's changed, we're still going for 4th place' is quite remarkable.

At the very least this summer, the very least, I expected the manager to be able to spend money generated by player sales. Seems he's not even getting all of that, but around 50%. If it wasn't sell to buy before, it is now... perhaps sell sell release release to buy.

[UsualSuspect]

I agree the results of pre-season friendlies matter little, but had we lost to Walsall some on here would be talking of being certainties for relegation, calling McLeish's resignation, Randy's head and Faulkner's public flogging.

I remember us losing with a full strength team to walsall in I think 2004 when merson had just become their player manager. I didn't worry and we beat Southampton 2-0 on the opening day.

I vowed never to watch a friendly again after the valencia game last season when I left at half time because watch a repeat of Homes under the hammer was more appealing

[Concrete John]

I do feel that beating Walsall by two goals, an encouraging cameo from Ireland, and the impending signing of N'Zogbia (pleasing though that is) is perhaps masking the bigger picture. Tot up the players sold or released in the last 18 months - and be realistic, don't include the half-dozen kids from the end of this season, just first teamers and first team squad members who have left - and then compare with those who have arrived in the last 18 months. Draw your own conclusions; I've drawn mine.

Out:-
Gardner
Sidwell
Shorey
Milner
Carew
Freidel
NRC
Young
Downing
Davies

In:-
Bent
N'Zogbia (presumably)
Given
Makoun
Ireland

Promoted:-
Clark
Bannan
Delph
Delfouneso
Albrighton

So:-
Gardner = Bannan
Sidwell = Delph
Shorey = ?
Milner = Ireland
Carew = Bent
Freidel = Given
NRC = Makoun
Young = N'Zogbia
Downing = Albrighton
Davies = Clark

Apologies if I've forgotten anyone.

I'm a huge Milner fan, so him for Ireland does weaken us, and we also need that extra FB cover for Shorey, but all in all not overly weakened, IMO.  Although not mentioned above, the aging of Petrov is another issue we need to address.

Costs had spiralled, mainly the wagebill, and needed to be brought back under control as continuing as we were was not an option.

[Merv]

For what it's worth, this is the list I've been considering. Again, senior players leaving since Jan 2010, in terms of both bringing in transfer revenue and easing the strain on the wage bill. And senior players arriving in the same time frame.

Out: Friedel, Downing, Ashley Young, Reo-Coker, Kyle Walker (loan expired), Davies, Carew, Sidwell, Pires, Bradley (loan expired, permanent deal cancelled), Milner, Shorey, Bouma, Harewood, Craig Gardner, Salifou, Osbourne.

In: Given, N'Zogbia (pending), Bent, Makoun, Ireland, Walker (loan), Pires, Bradley (loan).

Obviously, I recognised the need for us to trim the fat from the squad, and I endorse that, and there's natural wastage and development of younger players to be considered also. But generally, I feel Villa have been reducing the squad, acting on the wage bill issue, and yet... I would have expected us to now be in a position to re-invest in the squad, at least by using all of the transfer fees generated. I'm not seeing that this summer.

Again, this is my view; if anyone interprets what's happening another way, fine. If you're happy with how Villa are moving forward, I'm happy for you. I'm not convinced there are good times ahead, to be honest. But I'll see as many positives as I can, and back the team and manager 100%, as always.

[nigel]

You're entitled to your opinions, I haven't a problem with that, but you obviously have a problem with people expressing theirs though!

No, I don't at all, the point i was trying to make was that going on about "what do people expect" and "for all those constantly moaning" blah blah blah is patronising in the extreme.

Your point about "relegated before a ball is kicked" is one example, and the original poster's long ramble which seemed to be saying "if you're pessimistic, you're clearly not behind the team and manager" is an even better one.

I am massively uninspired by the managerial apppointment, I think the club is abysmally run, and I think the belief that getting one more signing in and relying on the kids is cause to think we can challenge for top four (see the General's last post on VT) is incredibly wishful thinking and more likely to end up with us as bottom four, but I fucking object to people suggesting I'm in some way "not supporting the manager" or not behind the team. I'll be there in my seat as usual next year, supporting the team, and giving the manager a chance to show I was totally wrong.

As I said, it is patronising guff - the old "better fan than you" argument dressed up in some nonsense about sitting tight, using the kids more and hoping lots of clubs go bust.

It's almost as if people have forgotten what happened last season when, due to injuries, we had to rely on the kids too much. It all went to shit. Except now there seems to be the implication that we should have an actual policy of doing precisely that.

If it is such an obvious good idea, why weren't these same people saying "hang on, no, I don't think we should be spending 40m on players this summer, I reckon we should be really prudent, sit tight and use the kids instead" when we were spending big money?

Madness.

Incidentally, where did this "divine right to top four" thing come from? I don't think I have ever seen a post which suggested someone thought we had that.

Regarding "Top 4 thing" you obviously don't go on the forums that I do, otherwise you'd know excactly what I'm on about!!
Regading my point of "relegated before a ball is kicked" I've read several posts on this site, as well as other saying "relegation material", " bottom 4" etc.
Regarding "patronising guff" as you put it, it's other peoples opinions!!
I would never claim to be a better fan than you or anyone else.
If someone wants to pay their money then sit and moan all game, that's up to them, f***ing sad if you ask me, but, how can that be classed as supporting the team?
I'm a petty objective supporter, if they play badly I'll say so, I won't make excuses and if they play well I'll say so too.
However badly they play, I will never boo the team.

[UsualSuspect]

I think some people actually think that the crowd have an effect on the game.

15-20 years ago it probably did but the majority of footballers are millionaires and couldn't give a monkeys chuff.

Plus the acoustics at VP are shit. i sit in the north stand more often that not and it is very rarely that you can hear the Holte. I have also sat in the upper trinity inbetween the halfway line line and the Holte and struggled to hear.