Ambition - Wenger comments

[Risso]

Interesting quote from Wenger in various places today regarding the sale of players:
 
"Imagine the worst situation - we lose Fabregas and Nasri," said the Arsenal manager. "You cannot convince people you are ambitious after that. You cannot pretend you are a big club.
"A big club holds onto its big players and gives a message out to all the other big clubs that they just cannot come in and take [players] away from you.
"We worked very hard with these players for years to develop them and now it's time for us to keep them together."
 
"And even if you lose Nasri, to find the same quality player, you have to spend again the same amount of money. Because you cannot say, you lose the player and you do not replace him."
 
Now replace the words Fabregas and Nasri with say, Young and Downing, and you start to see the difference in approach that seperates us from the big teams.

[Ads]

So Arsenal are a mid-table club like us then? As both Fabregas and Nasri are off. Like Modric at Spurs.

There aint half some big ambitionless clubs these days.

[MoetVillan]

City.  Tevez wants out
Spuds. Modric.
Inter. Sneider
Arse. Nasri and Fabregas

All guys jostling to find the best chance of success and/or money deal.  It has less to do with the "ambition" of the club in question, just the chance of success in the following year.  Modric shows us that.  If Spuds were in CL, no chance of him wanting out now IMO. 

Agents win.

Football loses.

[Risso]

We've lost three of our best players in the last two years, and it'll probably soon be 4.  Both Spurs and Arsenal have said publicly that Modric and Nasri aren't for sale.  Tevez wants to go back to Argentina, he isn't being sold to make ends meet, and City would hang onto him if they can.  Entirely different scenarios.

[not3bad]

Entirely different scenarios.

Well yes, Arsenal are in the Champions League.  Would Young have stayed if Villa were in the Champions League?  Would Downing want to leave? 

I'll tell you this if Nasri leaves Arsenal it will look far worse on them than losing Ashley Young looks on Villa.

[Ads]

We've lost three of our best players in the last two years, and it'll probably soon be 4.  Both Spurs and Arsenal have said publicly that Modric and Nasri aren't for sale. 

And we've said Downing isn't for sale, the fact is they'll all leave this summer.

[Concrete John]

We've lost three of our best players in the last two years, and it'll probably soon be 4.  Both Spurs and Arsenal have said publicly that Modric and Nasri aren't for sale.  Tevez wants to go back to Argentina, he isn't being sold to make ends meet, and City would hang onto him if they can.  Entirely different scenarios.

Although no two situations are the same, I don't think it's right to call them 'entirely different'.  Arsenal also sold Adebayor and that CB who's name escapes me to the Man City oil money, because they wanted to go, as we did with Barry and Milner.  And we've also said publicly Downing isn't for sale.

It's more about what you do after they leave that states what ambitions you have.

[Matt C]

"Imagine the worst situation - we lose Fabregas and Nasri," said the Arsenal manager. "You cannot convince people you are ambitious after that. You cannot pretend you are a big club.
"A big club holds onto its big players and gives a message out to all the other big clubs that they just cannot come in and take [players] away from you.

Never a truer word spoken, Arsen.

[TheSandman]

We've lost three of our best players in the last two years, and it'll probably soon be 4.  Both Spurs and Arsenal have said publicly that Modric and Nasri aren't for sale.  Tevez wants to go back to Argentina, he isn't being sold to make ends meet, and City would hang onto him if they can.  Entirely different scenarios.

Not really. Fabregas, Modric and Nasri will be at other clubs by September 1st.

And what tells you we haven't taken a hardline 'Not for sale at any price' with Downing? It's been rumoured from the fan meeting and by one or two fairly reliable journos.

[TimTheVillain]

We've lost three of our best players in the last two years, and it'll probably soon be 4.  Both Spurs and Arsenal have said publicly that Modric and Nasri aren't for sale. 

And we've said Downing isn't for sale, the fact is they'll all leave this summer.

I think AM wants him to ask for a transfer rather than just sell him to the highest bidder.

The difference between really big clubs and big clubs is that really big clubs don't lose players for reasons of wanting CL football elsewhere and if they do want to leave, - also, the club is as adamant as possible that he doesn't join an EPL competitor.

[Mazrim]

Players come and go and they're fickle spoilt brats with agendas. It doesn't say anything about ambition. Sometimes a good deal is a good deal, whoever you are.

But it's what you do afterwards that defines the ambition.

[Iago]

We can cope without Young and Downing, I believe there are players of equal quality that we can obtain.

It is also important we build a strong team mentality and cut loose the selfish players. Remember Downing and Young were consistent players in our poor campaign last season, it says a lot about individual talent.

Let Downing seek his "ambition" elsewhere!

[Concrete John]

Taking away the Villa comparisons for a moment, under what context has he said this?

"Imagine the worst situation - we lose Fabregas and Nasri," said the Arsenal manager. "You cannot convince people you are ambitious after that. You cannot pretend you are a big club.
"A big club holds onto its big players and gives a message out to all the other big clubs that they just cannot come in and take [players] away from you.
"We worked very hard with these players for years to develop them and now it's time for us to keep them together."
 
"And even if you lose Nasri, to find the same quality player, you have to spend again the same amount of money. Because you cannot say, you lose the player and you do not replace him."

Sounds to me also like a veiled dig at his own board that they should resist the sales.  I wonder if he'll jack it in there if they're sold behind his back?

[Risso]

Entirely different scenarios.

Well yes, Arsenal are in the Champions League.  Would Young have stayed if Villa were in the Champions League?  Would Downing want to leave? 

Liverpool aren't in the Champions League, and Downing wants to leave us to go there.  They're not in Europe at all.

I think the point is that by selling our best players and appointing a manager very few people rated, we're not showing ourselves as a club on the up any more. 

[paul_e]

I don't disagree with you Risso but it all hinges on what you do immediately afterwards.  If you spend the money you got in and a pot more on top to buy a new defence (summer 2009) it looks ok, if you buy the clubs record purchase striker the next transfer window (Jan 2011) it looks ok.  Lets wait and see what money we spend and who we spend it on before deciding we lack ambition.

As others have said going for AM, and paying compensation for him, is a terrible way to get the fans on side, they must know that, the only way to win people back is to now back their choice of manager with big funds for the right type of players (younger players with a resale value and not on massive wages).  I don't think we'll see beye/heskey style signings again anytime soon, which isn't a bad thing.