Oscar Arce Brother

[dave.woodhall]

And they were gone before Jimmy Brown joined us.

[ClarrieBlue]

I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.

[andyaston]

Wow I love threads like this.

[SarkGrime]

I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.

Not quite. Emment Kapengwe played a third match for us, at Millwall. Crowe took him off after an hour. He'd looked very lively and the Millwall fans in the Main Stand applauded him warmly as he came off.

I think Mwila was the captain of Zambia. The one time I saw him in the first team he kept getting caught in possession and misplacing passes. It is very very difficult for a central midfielder to flourish in a level which is too high for him. This season Bradley has reminded me a lot of him.

[Oscar Arce]

Kapengwe was a bull of a man, very direct too, he had played for Atlanta for a number of years mainly as a wide right player.
Mwila was more of a skilful player, he was very slight, a bit of the build of Delph, but he got lost in matches and didn't like the physical aspect.
That Blackpool game was awful by the way, pouring with rain all match, from what I remember

[Pat McMahon]

I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.

Not quite. Emment Kapengwe played a third match for us, at Millwall. Crowe took him off after an hour. He'd looked very lively and the Millwall fans in the Main Stand applauded him warmly as he came off.

I think Mwila was the captain of Zambia. The one time I saw him in the first team he kept getting caught in possession and misplacing passes. It is very very difficult for a central midfielder to flourish in a level which is too high for him. This season Bradley has reminded me a lot of him.

SarkGrime, I am amazed at Millwall fans applauding any away player, ever. Was that before they came over and tried to give you a few friendly digs or were they different in those day?

[pooligan]

Yes it was raining all game in that dreadful game against Blackpool which ended 0-0 . I remember it well as i was in the Witton end and got drenched.

[SarkGrime]

SarkGrime, I am amazed at Millwall fans applauding any away player, ever. Was that before they came over and tried to give you a few friendly digs or were they different in those day?

Only the adults in the main stand. But they were Millwall fans all right. I know that because we'd forked out for the safety of seats in the stand and were sitting nice and quiet. *You* are amazed? How do you think we felt? That's why I remember it so well. Otherwise no, they weren't any different in those days - oh dear no.

[Steve R]

Oscar's signing was pretty symptomatic of the way the club was run in those days. He'd aproached Villa - presumably no one else would touch him - and was awarded a generous contract pretty much sight unseen.

He wasn't actually sent off in the pre-season friendly, the ref confirmed afterwards that he would have been had it been a league match, but as it was a friendly Villa were allowed to make a diplomatic substitution. It wasn't just the one incident, he'd been at it in his entire time on the pitch. 'It may take a while before he's ready for first team action' was the club's post-match take on the matter.

Oscar went on the coach at Millwall and (if I remember correctly) Sheffield United. He even had the temerity to criticise Villa in a Sunday Times article during his Millwall days. Something along the lines of attitudes at the club being symptomatic of the english game's intolerance of skilful players and how unappreciated he felt in his time at Villa Park. Even forty-plus years on I'd be happy to show him how much we appreciated him. I'd even polish my toecaps just for him.

Hector was an odd one. He couldn't have played for the first team if we'd have wanted to pick him. I have no idea why. Maybe work permit issues, which would have explained his amateur status. No doubt he got a few bob in his pocket one way or another. We had no idea at the time why he was even turning out for the reserves, presumably as some kind of sweetener to his brother. Of the two, Hector did seem to be the better player but only in relative terms. They were both fucking useless.

Your memory is correct Clarrie. Emment Kapemgwe's debut was hailed as a revelation. We did actualy win a game and he was prominent if not actually match-influencing. Mwila's debut the following saturday was more low key but warmly received nevertheless. They were both decent players, I assumed at the time that their subsequent obscurity had more to do with acclimatisation or similar. Black players, let alone Africans, were distinctly rare in those days. They didn't show much in the reserve games I saw either.

I can remember the rain against Blackpool too, plus Brian Godfrey heading an otherwise (unintentionally) goalbound free-kick wide. Maybe it was the weather that did for Emment and Freddie.

We played three home games against Carlisle, Blackpool and Bolton in 8 days for two wins and a draw, which took us up to something like 5th or 6th from bottom - our highest position all season.

[dave.woodhall]

Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?

[pooligan]

Yes, i remember the black player we had in the early sixties. It was Stan Horne if i remember correctly. i recall seeing him play a few times. Stand to be corrected on this,but i think he left us for Manchester City

[Steve R]

Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?

I can remember Compton Edwards in the youth team, but I don't remember a black first team player. He was the youth teamer regarded as the most-likely-to from the (very badly run) youth system pre-Docherty.

The last I saw of Compton Edwards was him playing a game for Stafford Rangers (90% sure it was them, can't remember the opposition), some time around 1970/71.

[dave.woodhall]

Yes, i remember the black player we had in the early sixties. It was Stan Horne if i remember correctly. i recall seeing him play a few times. Stand to be corrected on this,but i think he left us for Manchester City

That's the one. Thanks.

[SteveN]

Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?

I can remember Compton Edwards in the youth team, but I don't remember a black first team player. He was the youth teamer regarded as the most-likely-to from the (very badly run) youth system pre-Docherty.

The last I saw of Compton Edwards was him playing a game for Stafford Rangers (90% sure it was them, can't remember the opposition), some time around 1970/71.

Compton Edwards was in the same school year as me, but different school, he was at Handsworth Tech.  Every year we played them we lost, because of him and one other boy (Byron Ellis?).  It was men against boys or at the very least big strong boys against wimps.  We all thought he would make it as a professional footballer.

At the back of my mind there's a thought that Edwards played at least one game for the reserves against Everton.  This from the man who forgot his train ticket and sandwiches this morning mind.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Talking of black players when they were exception rather than the norm, anybody remember Ces Pod ? Not sure if I got the spelling right, but I remember him playing against us for Bradford City at Valley Parade in the 3rd division. A handy and pacey full back I recall. I remember the game as well because we were sitting down in the stand that burnt down a few years later.