Would you have MON back!!

[Greg N'Ash]

The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.

What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.

I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.

well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact

The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer

If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.

As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.

What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.

[Villa'Zawg]

...

Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.

Who was the c*** when Saunders left?

Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?

So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.

[dave.woodhall]

...

Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.

Who was the c*** when Saunders left?

Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?

So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.

Only you could compare Ron Bendall, who died before he could be convicted of defrauding the club, to Randy Lerner.

[WarszaVillan]

I remember when Saunders was enemy number one - he was the original clown in the 'There's a Circus in the Town' song. I hated him for years and in fact one of my suprises when H&V hit the Internet was how people were now talking about him so positively. Remember he left in the middle of the season and if it hadn't been for the steadying influence of Barton could have cost us our greatest triumph we've ever had (and probably ever will have). Time is a great healer and although MON will never have the legend reputation of Saunders - for obvious reasons - over time people will see him as one of our better managers. At the moment its like people are going through a break up and feel better if they can hate O'Neill.

[Villa'Zawg]

The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.

What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.

I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.

well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact

The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer

If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.

As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.

What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.

I don't think it helps that you can only imagine this in terms of Lerner being a fuckwit or an evil git.

It may be as simple as there was a change of policy or an important decision made that O'Neill couldn't live with.

[Ger Regan]

At the moment its like people are going through a break up and feel better if they can hate O'Neill.

That analogy might work were it not for the fact that a number of those that have given him pelters for the way he left were also the most vocal critics during his tenure at the club. They're not sad he's gone, but they're justifiably angry with the way he's left.

And, again, he's got previous in doing the same to Norwich. I'd love to know how a disagreement with his chairman over a signing could lead to a justifiable resignation the morning of a game. If he's done it once, he could have easily done it again had he not gotten his own way.

[Villa'Zawg]

...

Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.

Who was the c*** when Saunders left?

Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?

So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.

Only you could compare Ron Bendall, who died before he could be convicted of defrauding the club, to Randy Lerner.

I'm not so witless as to believe that only men of bad character make poor decisions.

[adrenachrome]

Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.

Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.

Dave, pedant alert.

I am no Scouse historian but I am certain Ged never won the European Cup. Benitez won it in what I think was his first season.

Ged did OK at Liverpool, primarily in that 2001 season, but he never won the league or Old Big Ears. I would have liked him to remain in charge this summer as I think he could have surprised a few people with a full pre-season.

No to MON coming back for me. In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though, and there is no perfect candidate we're overlooking. It could be a strange summer in B6.

To parraphrase; - {In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though}.

AND add to that; restoring the clubs name and involment in europe. Being already familiar with most of the playing squad so the club can hit the premiership road running immediately (which is worth how many invaluable league points), and being (in the main ) judged by fans on behind the scenes circumstances that nobody really knows what went on, and a tribunial finding in his favour,  and no one else being out there at the moment available with a managerial record equal to MON. Inspite of all this, you still wouldnt give him your support if he walked back through the VP doors?   
The way are heading,  it might just be LC winner Mcleish in the hot seat!!!
Funny ol game football.
Inspite of all this looks like from the poll, a good percentage of fans would back him and the club if he did come back.   But I suppose it all about opinion.

Mr Gaztonniller, you raise some great points, many of which I have raised myself at various points in the past 10 months.

However, I think there is simply too much anti MON sentiment at Villa Park for his return to even be considered seriously. I have still not heard an authoritative version of the events of last August to explain his departure, and thus refuse to throw vitriol at anybody. If more people on ths (generally intelligent and articulate) site would accept McLeish over MON then I think that tells you all you need to know about the reception he would receive if he were to be re-appointed. I can see no circumstances in which it would work.

Whoever comes in as manager will have my support - yes, including Alex McLeish - even if they don't inspire me. In fact I cannot think of a single manager we have been linked with who would inspire me.

Not for the first time on this issue, Pat Mac has precisely summed up my position on the matter.

[Greg N'Ash]

The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.

What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.

I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.

well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact

The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer

If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.

As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.

What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.

I don't think it helps that you can only imagine this in terms of Lerner being a fuckwit or an evil git.

It may be as simple as there was a change of policy or an important decision made that O'Neill couldn't live with.

Or more likely he came in and demanded something the board couldn't live with? We know he's got form for this is the past, we know he has an ego so big it has its own gravity and we know he's sensitive to criticism to the point he sues websites who print letters from fans he doesn't like. On the other hand you have a guy who's got a reputation for being a thoroughly decent man and to my knowledge hasn't behaved badly since he arrived.

Occams razor init.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Or more likely he came in and demanded something the board couldn't live with? We know he's got form for this is the past,

On more than one occasion at Celtic he let his feeling known to the press, namely that he would consider leaving unless he was given what he wanted.
Archie MacPherson highlights one example in his 'Flower of Scotland' book.

[KevinGage]

Aye.  If he was keen to replicate 'Ol Big Ead's  approach to football (shame that never extended to style of play) he'd have learned to have distain for those directly above him.

There were various threats to leave Celtic and Leicester at different times and I wonder how many times he tried it on at the Villa. It's not a completely unthinkable  scenario that when his stock was high with us in the past we'd do whatever we could to persuade him to stay. But last summer, if he tried the same routine the board might have called his bluff and said 'OK, we accept your resignation.'

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Aye.  If he was keen to replicate 'Ol Big Ead's  approach to football (shame that never extended to style of play) he'd have learned to have distain for those directly above him.

There were various threats to leave Celtic and Leicester at different times and I wonder how many times he tried it on at the Villa. It's not a completely unthinkable  scenario that when his stock was high with us in the past we'd do whatever we could to persuade him to stay. But last summer, if he tried the same routine the board might have called his bluff and said 'OK, we accept your resignation.'

Also Kevin, he ran the footballing side of it from top to bottom, he knew full well that leaving would drop the board in the shit, i'm betting he tried it on a few times and the board backed down.

[martin o`who??]

Look mate, we only get screwed over once, we`d be mad to even consider him, it would only be a matter of time.