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Author Topic: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?  (Read 4257 times)

Offline Damo70

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Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« on: June 02, 2011, 12:04:53 AM »
Having just watched West Ham fans debating the appointment of Big Sam on SSN and spending a fair amount of time on here debating about a new manager I have to state the obvious and say it's all about opinion. I loved the swagger, profile and atmosphere that BFR brought to the club so I applauded his wins and played down his defeats-those who disliked his media work etc. went the other way. I liked MON's track record and the improvement he made to our league positions, others played down his achievements and didn't like his style of play. I was against GH because I had heard too many negatives from his former players and he had been 'out of the loop' for too long, others quite correctly pointed out his achievements. Now, I would love Ancelotti, would quite happily accept Hughes, Moyes or Jol but do not want Benitez as he lost credibility with me in his last year at Liverpool with his rants, do not think Martinez managerial record should make him a candidate and am totally opposed to McLaren although some could spin his record into an argument. I would not want Curbishley as our boss but would suggest that his managerial record is good but his image/public perception is poor. We could all name our first choice 1,2,3 and state our case but how much is it based on fact or just our personal feelings?

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2011, 01:09:05 AM »
It's a little from all three, isn't it?

We're too big to give a guy the job with no experience, so we need to see some track record. What they have actually achieved/ past tense = fact.

Your interpretation on how they did this/ how they carry themselves/ how important was this actual achievement = perception (with a little opinion thrown in).

Why you think this will translate well to the Villa job = opinion.

Online brian green

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2011, 07:53:39 AM »
This is as deep a topic as we have ever had on here.

To move one step past Kevin's rationale one is obliged to say what is a fact? What is a perception?  What is an opinion?

All three concepts stand or fall on the point from which it is viewed.   A lady came into my place of work and asked if I am religious.   I replied well, I do not believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale.   She said he was.   I asked why.   She replied because the Bible says so.

If fact can be so subjective, perception and opinion must also be relative.

To escape from the potential quicksand and potential dead cat throwing of this thread I will conclude on a trivial note.

As well as religious ladies a lot of very clever people come into my place of work.  One such is Professor Arthur Gibson who has the chair of philosophy at Trinity College Cambridge and a world authority on the work of Wittgenstein.   I will ask him whether Jonah was swallowed by a whale and thereby get a steer on what is or is not a fact.

Offline Risso

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 09:11:35 AM »
Interesting topic.  Despite the commonly held perception of Big Sam for instance, I quite like him and think he'll do a good job at West Ham.  He is a "horses for courses" type manager, and I don't think his football was ever as bad as it was made out.  Of course he liked big lumps like Kevin Davies, but there were times when Bolton had players like Okocha and Campo that they played some decent football.

Offline Rigadon

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 09:26:04 AM »
Perception is transitory, especially with football managers.  Only the very, very best managers keep their untouchability.  The rest have a period of potential but unless they move on at the right time and go to the right job, the x-factor, for want of a better phrase, decreases.  You can see it happening to Wenger.  Of course, him wining the league again next year changes it all again.


 

Offline Concrete John

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 09:28:03 AM »
Fully agree.

Last season whenever we lost someone would inevitably point to Cuellar being at RB as a problem, even if the he played well and the goals we let in all came down our left.  Why?  Because the perception was he was a weak link.   

We're too big to give a guy the job with no experience, so we need to see some track record. What they have actually achieved/ past tense = fact.

Even that strays into the realm of opinion as I found out yesterday when debating with Hiltzcoolerking what relevance the double at Chelsea has to the Villa job.  Opinion.

Offline cdward

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 10:09:21 AM »
Perception becomes a reality, as does opinion. If you have a belief, perception or opinion on something, it may not matter whether it is right or wrong, but it becomes the reality for you, and so that becomes a fact.

So if i believe that Ancelotti will do a better job for Villa than Hughes, this becomes my reality, and that is a fact.
However it does not mean that this will necessarily be true, but this perception may start to be believed by more people, so it becomes the opinion of many, and that is a fact.
I think MON was a better manager than GH.

Of course all the above is only my opinion!

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 10:20:18 AM »
For months last season we were told that we could could write off the last 2 games as we were incapable of taking points from either of them. This became the manta, we need to have enough points before then.

I'd class that as opinion perceived as fact.


Offline Villa'Zawg

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2011, 11:36:38 AM »
This is as deep a topic as we have ever had on here.

To move one step past Kevin's rationale one is obliged to say what is a fact? What is a perception?  What is an opinion?

All three concepts stand or fall on the point from which it is viewed.   A lady came into my place of work and asked if I am religious.   I replied well, I do not believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale.   She said he was.   I asked why.   She replied because the Bible says so.

If fact can be so subjective, perception and opinion must also be relative.

To escape from the potential quicksand and potential dead cat throwing of this thread I will conclude on a trivial note.

As well as religious ladies a lot of very clever people come into my place of work.  One such is Professor Arthur Gibson who has the chair of philosophy at Trinity College Cambridge and a world authority on the work of Wittgenstein.   I will ask him whether Jonah was swallowed by a whale and thereby get a steer on what is or is not a fact.


I reckon Wittgenstein might have said - yeah, why not?



Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Fact, Perception Or Opinion?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 02:31:27 PM »
Wittgenstein good.
Heidegger pony.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 05:26:56 PM by hilts_coolerking »

 


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