In that alternative universe....

[Concrete John]

....where MON had stayed and Randy had given him more money, where do you think we'd be?

Let's do this based on a couple of assumptions:-
1.  The Milner/Ireland thing would still have happened.
2.  We signed keane and McGeady as rumoured at the time.
3.  Injuries were the same.
4.  We didn't sign Bent.

Personally I can see him maybe getting Ireland motivated and the defence would be stronger with no issues over Dunne or Collins.  However I don't think either of his 'proposed' signings would have improved us all that much.  Some I'm gonna go with 6th again and his motivational powers overcoming the injury issues.

[Eigentor]

I think he had fallen out with Ireland, played Downing in central midfield (Young and McGeady on the wings). Without Milner and Dunne as fat as he was in the first half of the season, we wouldn't have managed top six (Liverpool too strong), I doubt seventh, but as MON's brand of football is efficient in the PL, I think we would have managed top half.

Assuming MON had lacked interest in the way he seemingly was in pre-season, I'd say about the same as Houllier.

[john e]

definitley higher than where we are at the moment,
i've gone for top half/comfortable,
 it was his team and they played his way, when someone else comes in with different ideas, it can cause a few problems as we have seen.

still dont regret for one second that MON left though, but will readily accept we would have had a better season in terms of league position

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Top half and comfortable.

Not as good as 6th though. I think O'Neill knew this and was part of the reason he jumped ship.

Having said that, there would be no Darren Bent, it would be Robbie Keane instead.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Personally I can see him maybe getting Ireland motivated and the defence would be stronger with no issues over Dunne or Collins.  However I don't think either of his 'proposed' signings would have improved us all that much.  Some I'm gonna go with 6th again and his motivational powers overcoming the injury issues.

Sixth? Bloody hell John, put that crack pipe down.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

He knew he couldn't off load the rejects quick enough to give him clout to sign new players.
He knew that if he finished mid-table, it would dent his aura of being a top manager.

I certainly don't think his desire to sign Keane and McGeady would have propelled us into the top 6.

[not3bad]

Sixth? Bloody hell John, put that crack pipe down.

I don't think it's that ridiculous to say we'd be in with a shout of 6th again because as has been noted, the premier league is not of the highest quality this year.

[TheSandman]

About 9th or 10th. There is little chance we would have challenged the top four again and we would still be well behind the top six for me. We'd be around Bolton and Everton.

Though I don't see how motivational powers can overcome injuries.

Keane has been poor all season so probably would have been a disastrous signing and Gabby has had niggling injuries and poor form all season so we may have suffered badly for a lack of goals. Looking at him playing for us and Stoke this season and it is looking like his time has gone.

Lets be kind and say McGeady turned out to be a good signing but Albrighton would not have broken through. I can see him contributing around the same number of goals and assists. We would also have suffered for the fact that Ireland lacks Milners work rate and Petrov is another year older. Also how would we accomodate Ireland, McGeady, Young and Downing when we play the same team every week which we would have done under MoN?

In defence I'd expect us to be much better. O'Neill would probably have lost patience with an out of form Dunne and dropped him for Cuellar. We'd have a definite big improvement in that area.

I'd say that being left behind by so many rivals we'd probably see plenty of calls for O'Neill to go. That said we may have done better in the cups as he was the derby king so we might have beat Blues and he wouldn't have played a weakened team against Man City had he got to that game. If we had two better cup runs it might have bought him a lot of support.

The thing is there are so many unknowns and contingencies that make this prediction lark difficult. How motivated was O'Neill for the new season? He did leave therefore it might suggest a lack of motivation on his part. Would he have signed Keane and McGeady? We don't know for sure beyond the fact both were widely linked. What if he signed someone like Scott Parker for midfield? All of these things could affect the performance positively or negatively.

What is clear to me is that this season Houllier certainly hasn't helped matters and that the other big culpret for our poor performances in the players may have coped different under O'Neill which is what I would point to as a reason for an improved placing over this season.

[Concrete John]

Personally I can see him maybe getting Ireland motivated and the defence would be stronger with no issues over Dunne or Collins.  However I don't think either of his 'proposed' signings would have improved us all that much.  Some I'm gonna go with 6th again and his motivational powers overcoming the injury issues.

Sixth? Bloody hell John, put that crack pipe down.

I prefer to inject these days.

I don't think it's out of the question - how often were we getting posts on here telling us that we're only x points from 6th place?  A better start and more motivation I don't think it's all that great a stretch.

[Chris Smith]

Somewhere between 5th and 8th with another trip to Wembley, no way would a MON team have let that bunch of wankers beat us in the Q.F.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Sixth? Bloody hell John, put that crack pipe down.

I don't think it's that ridiculous to say we'd be in with a shout of 6th again because as has been noted, the premier league is not of the highest quality this year.

So you think we'd be on 55 points, the same as Spurs and Liverpool? No chance.

For a start, imagine our team with the injury crisis and combine that with MON's reluctance to use the kids and those players he'd excluded. He'd probably have only been fielding 8 players, such was his stubbornness. Even the greatest of motivators have their limitations.

[Merv]

An interesting one. I'm going with top half and comfortable, though perhaps with a League Cup Final defeat after nudging past Birmingham 1-0 in the QF, West Ham in the semis and then losing 3-1 to Arsenal in the final, having taken an early lead but then sat back to defend for 80 minutes and being overwhelmed.

Defence would have been much improved, with Dunne and Collins more disciplined and Warnock playing at left-back. Cuellar at RB, of course. Instead of signing Kyle Walker for RB to cover Luke Young's injury absence, or turning to Clark and Baker when needed, we'd have seen NRC at RB and Heskey CB - or possibly a January transfer window move for David Wheater.

Makoun wouldn't have signed, nor would Bent. With Milner gone and Ireland injured, Sidwell would have partnered Petrov for the majority of the season, until January, when Jermain Jenas arrived from Spurs in a £12m (the remains of the Milner money). Downing wide right, Young wide left. £8m signing Aiden McGeady wouldn't have started a league game but would have set a new PL record for consecutive sub appearances - 37 22-minute cameos.

Mark Albrighton and Barry Bannan would both have been loaned out for the entire season.

Habib Beye, Isaiah Osbourne and Moustapha Salifou would make zero league starts between them, but all offered new one-year deals at the end of the season.

97% of our goals would have come from set pieces.

[pauliewalnuts]

About 8th or 9th or so.

This squad wasn't going to manage top six this season (mind you, look at how mediocre Liverpool are and where they are right now and it makes you wonder), but there's no way we should have spent most of the season in the bottom six, which is Houllier's fault.

On the flip side, MON's striker solution being Robbie Keane rather than Darren Bent, god knows where the goals would have come from.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Somewhere between 5th and 8th with another trip to Wembley, no way would a MON team have let that bunch of wankers beat us in the Q.F.

You're assuming we'd have beaten Blackburn and Burnley in the earlier rounds. Our home form was so poor under MON. Agree we would have beaten the Rags though.

[pauliewalnuts]

Somewhere between 5th and 8th with another trip to Wembley, no way would a MON team have let that bunch of wankers beat us in the Q.F.

You're assuming we'd have beaten Blackburn and Burnley in the earlier rounds. Our home form was so poor under MON. Agree we would have beaten the Rags though.

We were unlucky not to beat them in that match, too.