Villa supporters turn up heat on Houllier

[eastie]

Of course you are correct Greg, but I guess it's much easier to move a manager on and cut your losses than to move on 7 or 8 players - in an ideal world the players would go , but they are on such good wages we will have major problems unloading them.

[alanclare]

I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.

[pauliewalnuts]

I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.

Take a look at some of the shite in their Off Topic section.

[Concrete John]

you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems.  Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa

Although I agree in principal, I think this highlights his main fault as our manager.

A boss has to command respect and be seen as a true authority figure.  That means that even if you don't agree with him, be it the type of training or where you're being played, you give it your best anyway out of fear more than anything.  Basically, you know that if you cross him you're gonna lose so you toe the line. 

This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club.  And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these. 

The players have been awful to him, but they're only doing that as they think they can get away with it, which is because he's seen as a 'weak' manager.  Let's not forget the likes of Dunne and Collins gave O'Neill no Hassle.  Could that be because they liked his approach?  Maybe, but they also knew that if they tried the shit they've done with Houllier they'd never see 1st team football again.

So my concern is that he can't command the respect of the modern professional and never will, which is why I think he should go. 

[pauliewalnuts]

This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club.  And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these. 

He's got the most important one in spades - the previous achievements, which are way in excess of Martin's.

If the players choose not to respect them, then fine, but you can hardly say it is because Houllier doesn't have that track record.

Also, it is far too easy to assume there were no problems between MON and players. I recall plenty of ostracised players, a story of him actually having a physical brawl with one player, and stories about players texting pictures of champagne bottles around when they'd heard he'd gone.

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.

Take a look at some of the shite in their Off Topic section.

Oh God. My eyes!

[Greg N'Ash]

well lets not forget that MON fell out with a hell of a lot of his players so i'm not sure this squad has ever been full of sweetness and light. The fact that his last action for the club was to arrange the transfer of the utter mental case Ireland doesn't exactly hint he could spot a balanced individual.  Difference is they were "his" team by and large - Houllier is faced with senior players who know they're going to be moved on if the manager stays and frankly they don't care what damage they do to get him the push.

[Concrete John]

This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club.  And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these. 

He's got the most important one in spades - the previous achievements, which are way in excess of Martin's.

If the players choose not to respect them, then fine, but you can hardly say it is because Houllier doesn't have that track record.

Also, it is far too easy to assume there were no problems between MON and players. I recall plenty of ostracised players, a story of him actually having a physical brawl with one player, and stories about players texting pictures of champagne bottles around when they'd heard he'd gone.

That was my point - not that he hadn't won things, but rather that it seems not to register with the players.  Maybe it's because it was a while ago?

The NRC thing aside everything else was gossip, so who knows really?  There were unhappy players, as if you weren't in that elite 1st team squad you rotted (such as Davies), but even then did you we hear of them throwing coaches over tables or see them give the sort of gutless display we saw against Wolves?  No, because like him or not they wouldn't cross him.  And Houllier doesn't have that.   

[Eigentor]

Let's not forget the likes of Dunne and Collins gave O'Neill no Hassle.

Dunne and Collins were signed by O'Neill. He was here before them. This may sound simplistic, but it's much easier for players to question the authority of a new manager than one who has been around for years. Besides, if the James Nursey article is to be believed, Dunne and Collins' fondness of MON may stem from his application of the "90 minutes working week".

[Concrete John]

well lets not forget that MON fell out with a hell of a lot of his players so i'm not sure this squad has ever been full of sweetness and light. The fact that his last action for the club was to arrange the transfer of the utter mental case Ireland doesn't exactly hint he could spot a balanced individual.  Difference is they were "his" team by and large - Houllier is faced with senior players who know they're going to be moved on if the manager stays and frankly they don't care what damage they do to get him the push.

As I said to Paulie, the difference to me is not how liked he was or wasn't, but how respected/feared he was.  No matter what they thought of him his teams always gave 110% on the pitch and that simply has not been the case with Houllier.

[ROBBO]

It's obvious some players have been undermining Houllier from day one, most are paid far in excess of their ability and worth but unfortunately once enough players take a stand against a manager it become very difficult for him. He has tried to get the wankers out of the club. To say Houllier should have got rid of the troublemakers straight away is silly, he had no new players and then had the worst injury run in the clubs history and we have seen what happens when you just play kids.
I still believe there are too many players who believe they will not be at Villa Park next season to build any cohesion in the side.

[eastie]

I remember Sorensen and Maloney both came out in the press and said how mon had treated them so badly , and there were a few others I'd expect- all managers have bust ups but the good ones keep them behind closed doors and don't hold grudges.

I expect There are some players that think the only way they will stay here next season is if the manager goes and it's very hard for a manager to get the best out of them in that situation.I remember Gregory saying once that during problems with collymore , stan once said apparently' im not going anywhere, you'll be gone before me'- the players hold most of the aces these days sadly I'm afraid to say.

[Greg N'Ash]

All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them

[eastie]

All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them

Didnt jimmy armfield come in after clough was sacked and take leeds to the european cup final that season?

[dave.woodhall]

All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them

Didnt jimmy armfield come in after clough was sacked and take leeds to the european cup final that season?

He did, but it was downhill from then on. See also Ron Saunders at Manchester City at the same time.