Players should step up & take their share of responsibility

[milky]

Hello good peopel of Heroes & Villans! Long time lurker, first time poster! I posted this elsewhere - but it seems a good discussion topic in it's own right. I'd be interested if anyone agress with me?

I'll add the following disclaimer... I dislike Houllier (as a manager) as much as anyone else but...

THE PLAYERS SIMPLY HAVE TO START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY!!

The players obviosuly lack focus, respect & discipline - this has been evident all season long - from their performances on the pitch.

Maybe Houlliers idea of getting the players to learn these skills off the pitch (no phones in chnaging room and being a general disciplinarian) is being done so in order to try to get the players to be able to apply it on the pitch?

Perhaps the timig of it can be questioned, but not what he is trying to do surely? Whichever way we look at it our players have obviosuly had it too easy for too long now.

Why on earth should a player have a mobile phone in the dressing room? They are there to work, not play. What would you think of a work colleague turning up to a meeting and playing on his phone?

Whether Houllier is in charge or not - these players are a disgrace to themselves and their profession - this is exactly the sort of thing we should as a club promote; basic decency and respect. These players perhaps not collectively but certainly particular individuals lack respect - going out drinking on a team bonding session, causing a raucous, slagging off the staff, the club or the city of Birmingahm itself.

Players need to work for the manager (even if he is a a prick or not) that's what they are employed to do. They should have professional pride.
I'm sure we've all worked for our fair share of pricks. What do we do? Give up, rebel and stop trying, or try to prove him wrong and do it for yourself? Even if you couldn't care less about proving them wrong you knuckle down and do it for yourself, for your pride. Anyone who takes the route of giving up and rebelling shouldn't be anywhere near our football club.

Would the likes of Olof Mellberg / Martin Laursen / Wilfred Bouma lose focus like this? They've in their time here played for terrible managers at the Villa and endured some terrible times (playing wise) and you didn't see them rebelling like this. Perhaps the difference is their character - they've played for proper teams in world football and have a proper adult mentality. English players appear to be spoilt brats from what I can see. A generalisation yes, but there is truth here.

Also let's not forget that Houlliuer has inherited other peoples players / staff and it seems that a large number of these players as individuals lack these basic personal skills required to suceed in life as well as football.

Summary: although Houllier is not the right man for the job - there is nothing wrong with trying to instil discipline, focus and respect into a squad which largely has none of these attributes. Players need to stand up and be counted and not hide / blame everyone but themselves.

[brian green]

Excellent first post Milky and welcome.   Liked everything you have written but the name you have chosen.

I was thinking much along these lines when I read today's piece in the Mirror which effectively put Collins in the right and the club in the wrong.

The piece was the usual anti Villa weasel work by James Nursey who solicited from Collins that he was glad to be away from Villa Park with the Wales squad.

The interview should have been based on the journalist asking whether the player was ashamed to have got fighting drunk when he was the beneficiary of his employer's generosity and moreover in that drunken state abused his work colleagues.

The reply from an honourable and decent man would have been "yes, I behaved very badly, I apologize to the club and my colleagues and regret such lack of self control"

Instead we get a comment from the moral high ground that it is good to be away from Villa Park because things there have been difficult.

You are quite right Milky the biggest faults lie with the senior players ever since the departure of the previous manager.   They should be ashamed of themselves but they are not.   In fact you get the suspicion that they are gloating over Houllier's discomfort.

[peter w]

I read that interview and was bloody furious. It did read as if Collins was laughing at us and not taking the seriousness of the event, and the clubs position to heart.

[brian green]

My feelings exactly Peter.   And you can bet your mortgage on him aggravating his calf injury and be unavailable for selection by Villa for a few weeks more.

[Ian.]

Great post Milky.
I never read this report, infact I'm quite gob smacked Collins has taken that attitude. Unless he has been misquoted the bloke has got to look where he is in his professional career because he will not get a better club than us.
I thought maybe he has been influenced (as we all have in life at times) got pissed and spoke out of line. OK we all make mistakes, but the thing is decent blokes admit when they are in the wrong.

[milky]

indeed I feel that the 'favourites' from the old regime are not getting such prefferential treatment and don't like it. But that may well be wide of the mark and is purely speculation. Anyway it's best not turining this into a MON vs houllier argument!

But there seems no desire, no leader, no one 'doing it for the club' or for the fans.

I'd like our best players here and playing - but what can you do if they're openly disrespecting you like that? It's almost an impossible situation.

If that's true about Collins (I haven't seen it and just don't trust the Mirror) then it's truly scandalous he should be fined and be ashamed of himself.

Surely it's not too difficult to try? As a proffessional the absolute minimum I expect to get from them is focus, discipline and determination.

People have off days and play poorly / make mistakes etc it's human nature but there seesm to be many basic skills lacking and no desire to remedy it

[PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt]

I'd rather play the kids with the proper attitude who'll give everything for the club and get relegated than see arseholes like Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Carew, Ireland and Beye wear a Villa shirt again.

[JUAN PABLO]

Milky , great post  .       pretty spot on

[D.boy]

Now the hysteria from the weekend has subsided a little I will throw in my thoughts.
There appears to be a darkside to Villa this season and I think it has started to come to the forefront over the last couple of weeks. I don't know what is going on but there is a decent squad (on paper) who are under-achieving week in week out. We can all rant about the manager but at the end of the day it comes down to the team on the pitch. I'm bloody sure Houllier isn't sending them out to lose (Man Citeh apart) so is it that some of the big ego's don't like the way Houllier is changing things so they are causing unrest/want to go elsewhere. If it is then the sooner they are shipped out the better.
These so called players are on ludicrous wages for what they do and are supposed to be professionals.
Quite happy to pick up their big fat pay cheque for doing bugger all. If it transpires that the performances of some are an attempt to oust Houllier then I hope they are named and shamed come the end of the season and booted out of the club.
This is our club your royally screwing and us supporters are getting severely hacked off with your shite attitude. We will still be here long after you have jumped off this particular gravy train and we have every right to be concerned/voice our frustration with the direction your arrogance is taking our club.

[milky]

Now the hysteria from the weekend has subsided a little I will throw in my thoughts.
There appears to be a darkside to Villa this season and I think it has started to come to the forefront over the last couple of weeks. I don't know what is going on but there is a decent squad (on paper) who are under-achieving week in week out. We can all rant about the manager but at the end of the day it comes down to the team on the pitch. I'm bloody sure Houllier isn't sending them out to lose (Man Citeh apart) so is it that some of the big ego's don't like the way Houllier is changing things so they are causing unrest/want to go elsewhere. If it is then the sooner they are shipped out the better.
These so called players are on ludicrous wages for what they do and are supposed to be professionals.
Quite happy to pick up their big fat pay cheque for doing bugger all. If it transpires that the performances of some are an attempt to oust Houllier then I hope they are named and shamed come the end of the season and booted out of the club.
This is our club your royally screwing and us supporters are getting severely hacked off with your shite attitude. We will still be here long after you have jumped off this particular gravy train and we have every right to be concerned/voice our frustration with the direction your arrogance is taking our club.

Exactly I completely endorse this post. If we were to go down it would be devastating - but things are obviously very wronmg at the club at the moment.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Very good thought provoking post and welcome to H & V.
I agree entirely that players should be disciplined, show professional pride, and do as the manager tells them.
As you say, all of us in the real world of work have had situations we dont entirely like but you have to knuckle down and get on with it. Sometimes having to put up with an unsatisfactory situation for years, not half a football season, because we might not have other options or choices.
I remember Graham Taylor talking at the AGM shortly after returning for his 2nd spell in charge. He spoke about how the game had changed, how he now had to deal with a dressing room where most of the people in front of him were millionaires or assured to become millionaires. Money and financial security gives people choices. Not just a choice of whether to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, but the choice to move on easily and quickly from any situation which you are not entirely happy with.
Graham Taylors 2nd spell did not work out as we all know. I wonder how Ron Saunders would get on with the modern multi millionaire players, probably outright open revolt and them all going off to cry to Gordon Taylor at the PFA.

[curiousorange]

All of the dailies' takes on the Collins/Dunne incident today appeared to portray Collins as the victim of a hostile smear campaign. He's joined up with Wales to escape his Villa 'nightmare', finally discovered a united dressing room and can now play in a game where he can be a proud captain and perform without pressure. Litte was made of the fact that he made a rod for his own back with his club. For the record, I'd like to think that Collins' part in the whole thing has kind of been tacked on to Dunne's, given that Dunne's demonstrated his bad relationship with our management already this season, but the guy's big enough and ugly enough to take responsibility for his misdemeanours, and to view him as anything other than a tit who forgot his place in the pecking order would be taking a very biased line.

[KevinGage]

Not having a dig at the OP, but I don't buy  it.

These kind of party pieces only tend to rear their head when a side struggles. Funny eh? Well actually no, not in our case.

In the case of Collins, he probably gave an honest answer to a loaded question. Yes, it is easier to be away and to shift focus temporarily from a club turning in on itself.

On to the wider context of the players being to blame, they share a degree of culpability. But not getting anywhere near the best out of the resources at his disposal is ultimately a failing of the manager. Players -even the very best- need guidance, leadership and a game by game plan to maximise their effectiveness.

If managers weren't central to performance, results  and the overall wellbeing of a club Chairmen and owners could save themselves a packet by doing away with them altogether.

[rob_bridge]

Good post and responses - not that I agree in whole with them.
Houllier disrespected our club with his Liverpool Love-In so it is unsurprising that experienced players show him little or no respect. He winds me up far more than O'Leary ever did and depresses more than McDuff ever did. He has to go - the results are unacceptable
That said the players (and Friedel has at least) should have respect for themselves and the club and have think that this bloke may bethe worst person I have ever worked for and as soon as I get the chance I want away from him. However in the meantime I'm going to keep my gob shut, train hard and try and succeed and ensure no one points the finger at me for not trying in spite of the buffoon in charge.
Alas that is what normal people do - ones who have to pay rent. mortgages, feed and clothe families. These guys don't have such things to worry about and get paid huge sums even when they don't work.

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

Excellent post Milky. Very suprised and dissappointed if Collins is taking the piss. He seems like one of only a few that seems to show real passion in the side .......