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Author Topic: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card  (Read 16407 times)

Offline hawkeye

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2011, 11:59:37 PM »
Are referees not allowed to use a bit of common sense?
You have 2 refs responding and in answer to your question , obviously not.
The problem is that most refs become refs not because they have any particular talent for it, but because they were useless at playing the game.

Offline Holtenderinthesky

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2011, 12:33:17 AM »
He made a big mistake sending Van Persie off.

No he didn't.  He was sent off for two bookable offences, both of which were correct decisions.

What was the second bookable offence? He kicked the ball goal-wards it hit the hoardings & bounced backed I can't see how any time was wasted other than the referee producing a red card.

As for the mankini incident why wasn't Brian Clough sent of for violent conduct when he hit the forest fan on the pitch?

The issue of kicking the ball away after the whistle is not dependant on how much time is wasted.  It is a bookable offence and he did kick the ball away.  There is no way that was a genuine shot at goal.  He looked resigned as he was taking the shot and when he turned around he didn't look as though he'd just missed a sitter to put Arsenal in a commanding position.  It was the correct decision by the letter of the law.

Offline Holtenderinthesky

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2011, 12:33:58 AM »
Are referees not allowed to use a bit of common sense?
You have 2 refs responding and in answer to your question , obviously not.
The problem is that most refs become refs not because they have any particular talent for it, but because they were useless at playing the game.

Now that is nonsense and a total generalisation.  I know a few refs that do it because they love it in it's own right and not because they can't play football.

Offline davevillan

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2011, 12:45:00 AM »
Referees are odious little twats who abuse their power.
How do you know?
How many have you met?

Offline davevillan

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2011, 12:55:22 AM »
Are referees not allowed to use a bit of common sense?
You have 2 refs responding and in answer to your question , obviously not.
The problem is that most refs become refs not because they have any particular talent for it, but because they were useless at playing the game.
Thats a garbage statement.
I started because  i love the game, and had many seasons at semi-pro level and had a great time. As do all the guys i went out with. people who want to make these sort of statements have no idea.
It amuses me when people say refs should use common sense, since when did players use it??
A refs job is to apply the laws of the game.
In simplistic terms, they see an incident, make a judgement call based on what they see from the angle they see, then apply the laws of the game...
It woud have been more interesting had it been Havant v Weymouth, as those games are always interesting, i know from experience!!!!!

Offline Lambert and Payne

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2011, 08:49:44 AM »
Are referees not allowed to use a bit of common sense?
You have 2 refs responding and in answer to your question , obviously not.
The problem is that most refs become refs not because they have any particular talent for it, but because they were useless at playing the game.

Obviously you diddn'y fully read what i said?
I actually played football at a low level and was pretty good at it. I was asked to carry on and sign on for another season.
Players make 10x the mistakes the ref makes at a game. And the players can be "odius little twats". Most people hate the ref's cus they think there the worst enemy. 

Offline Mac

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2011, 09:11:10 AM »
You can either have refs applying common sense or being consistent. you can't have both

Offline davevillan

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2011, 02:13:07 PM »
That's the trouble with the rules generally nowadays, referees are judged by their peers as to how they apply the laws of the game.

In both sending off instances there was no common sense shown.   Pathetic.
its ok criticising the ref for not showing common sense, however you need to understand the Laws of the Game.
Conference South football is a semi-pro league, but its professionally run. Havant and Dorchester have professional football people working at the clubs, and they have a professional attitude, and they pay the players very well, in some cases we are talking several hundred pounds per week!
The referee is in the Contributory League system, which means he would referee the Zamoratto, Ryman, Western leagues as well. Because of its standing, only the top marked officials, officiate on this league, so he would have had a good season to be given this fixture. He would also be in the running for promotion to Football League line, and/or promotion to Conference National. He would have had an assesor and maybe his own coach watching him, and it will be his assesor marks that get him promoted.
The assesor will mark him according to how he performs on the game, and a huge part of the criteria is his application of the laws of the game. If he doesnt apply law correctly, he will be marked down badly and he wont get his promotion. Those who say he should use common sense in this case are well wide of the mark. If he considers the actions of the player to be violent conduct there is only one course of action, or if unsporting behaviour then its yellow, and if that means a 2nd yellow, then its too bad.
If the club want to appeal the decision, and decide sending off sufficient punishment due to circumstances, thats down to them, but the ref HAS to do his job on the day. That means he MUST apply the laws. If he doesnt, then its his head on the block!

Offline AV1874

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2011, 11:15:38 PM »
You can either have refs applying common sense or being consistent. you can't have both

I disagree with you there, you can apply common sense and apply it to both sides hence gaining consistency and I have managed that in several of my matches too.

Now addressing other statements, there are a lot of reasons why people become refs, yes there are the odious little twats and fortunately they are few and far between. There are a lot who aren't competent and they will remain at the bottom of the pile in grass roots, cream does rise and those with the right attitude and commitment due move forward.

I became a ref because I WASN'T ALLOWED to play in the school team in the UK because football was a game for boys only. I said screw you lot, how about I referee it then!!!!!! I have never looked back, the sheer level of enjoyment and involvement you get as a referee is immense.

Too many people are quick to put down referees without actually looking at what we do, who we are and why we do it.

I could actually just turn around and say supporters are just knuckle dragging wankers who's foul mouthed abuse is on par with absolute zero IQ. But I know better. Some people need to have a little think before they type.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2011, 11:26:07 PM »
Dunno AV1874, I often chat to the ref after Tamworth games, even if they have been horribly biased towards the opposition(!), and they, almost to a man (and occasionally woman) say that they feel under horrendous pressure to apply the letter of the law because they know they are being assessed.
I don't know what level you have reffed at, but these are refs who are trying to make the Football League list and they know that one or two bad assessments means another year or more where the best they can hope is running the line at Hereford.

Offline AV1874

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2011, 11:35:11 PM »
Hi Dave,

Yes, I referee pretty high up in the Aussie Leagues and yes, I understand the pressure these referees have.
The sad fact is that on those leagues I tend to referee to the assessor as opposed to referee the way I am comfortable with otherwise I just get a crap mark and eventually discarded off the pile.

People need to realise that the change needs to come from the top to assist us referees in consistency and common sense. FIFA being a bloody good starting point......

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2011, 11:52:57 PM »

People need to realise that the change needs to come from the top to assist us referees in consistency and common sense. FIFA being a bloody good starting point......

Now this I completely agree with.
We all want common sense from referees, but if they feel that their career is on the line, or at least any chance of promotion, if they dare to apply it then what hope do we have?

Offline davevillan

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2011, 11:56:09 PM »
Dunno AV1874, I often chat to the ref after Tamworth games, even if they have been horribly biased towards the opposition(!), and they, almost to a man (and occasionally woman) say that they feel under horrendous pressure to apply the letter of the law because they know they are being assessed.
I don't know what level you have reffed at, but these are refs who are trying to make the Football League list and they know that one or two bad assessments means another year or more where the best they can hope is running the line at Hereford.

Dave, when you say they are biased against Tamworth, i hope thats tongue in cheek. No ref is biased, they just call it as they see it. At panel level ( which is conference prem,  the prem reserve league and football league reserve whatever that is these days) its the assesor marks that get them promoted to Football League middle,  so they have to apply law, simple as that. They would all be Football League or Premier League A/R so they would be doing better games the Hereford's line ;-), tho some will also go there.
The problem is, most spectators dont know the laws. They just think they do because they listen to what Alan Hansen etc say on motd, and think because they have played at the highest level, they know what they are talking about, whereas if the truth be known, when it comes down to knowledge of the laws, they actually know very little.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2011, 12:09:21 AM »

Dave, when you say they are biased against Tamworth, i hope thats tongue in cheek.

Yes of course, hence the exclamation mark, I'm too cool for emoticons.
I've had arguments on more than one occassion in the Tamworh clubhouse when defending refs against fellow fans that are convinced our 4-0 defeat was solely down to biased refereeing!

Offline VillaZogmariner

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Re: 0% Villa. Another bizarre red card
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2011, 12:13:56 AM »
Back to the Mankini incident - the player has escaped a ban. The red card stands but due to "exceptional circumstances" the FA have let him off with the ban. Beeb story

So the FA can stop a player from getting a ban following a red card - even though the referee has seen it and deemed it the correct action. However they can't punish Wayne Rooney?

 


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