ok pissed off tonight after Citeh but get a grip

[WikiVilla]

Something to debate:

If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?

For me no, I still feel a bit cheated attending the UEFA games I did leading up to Moscow. What was the point, waste of time, emotion & money

[bob]

Something to debate:

If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?

I think we'd have been more likely to qualify for the Champions League but "very likely" is pushing it a bit. I remember those late goals made me feel like we'd blown it, so presumably some of the players might have too, but we'll never know what might have been.

KevinGage has put it very well. Winning teams don't worry about tiredness. What we've seen in the recent past suggests it is better to try and win every game as the benefits of the potential victories, maintaining confidence and belief are more beneficial that resting some legs for 90 minutes.

I have changed my opinion since 2009, when I thought cutting down on fixtures seemed like a good idea as being in the Champions League seemed massively important to me in terms of our continued progress and future success as a club - meaning that while we may forgo a UEFA cup trophy it may give us the ability to consistently challenge for more trophies in the near future. Maybe that sounds daft.

You put it well in another thread, Dave. We gambled and missed. Now we're between a rock and a hard place. What do we do now? It's looks like we don't want to win things.

I say try and win every game, no matter what. That's simple isn't it? No playing weakened sides in cups, it doesn't work out well for us.

[Dave Cooper please]

Something to debate:

If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?

If the clubs were more honest with the fans then I might accept it, but they take us for mugs, I can't remember Hotlips or any article on Pravda telling us that we were prioritising the Premier League and would be playing a weakened team in the cup.
On the contrary, we were assailed with guff about how we could win and get a home tie in the quarters and how your season ticket IS good value for money as it guarantees you Wembley tickets.

 When the club starts being honest with us, I'll accept decisions like Wednesday, it's a matter of trust, no?

[Chris Smith]

I sort of see your point, Dave, but we've seen what happened to Wolves and Backpool when the were too obvious about resting players. We'd get ourselves into all sorts of bother if they were to do what you are suggesting and issue statements about playing weakened sides.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Something to debate:

If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?

Not at all in Wednesdays case, after today the next two league games are spread out at fortnightly intervals. We could struggle through those games as much through players losing their competitive edge as any injury risk or `tiredness`.

[Dave Cooper please]

I sort of see your point, Dave, but we've seen what happened to Wolves and Backpool when the were too obvious about resting players. We'd get ourselves into all sorts of bother if they were to do what you are suggesting and issue statements about playing weakened sides.

True, so maybe less of the souvenir UEFA Cup programmes, less of the "Your ST is good value because you'll get Wembley tickets", and no hyping up of FA Cup matches to try to get us mugs through the turnstiles - unless they fucking mean it next time.

[Karl Bridges]

Sorry Karl, but similar justification was offered post Moscow 'as if we'd have won with the first team anyway' and it was guff then too.

I didn't say 'as if we'd have won with the first team. Again the point I was making is that a lot of people seem to believe that the result WOULD have been different had he played a full strength side. I am saying that the scoreline would be completely unknown and could even have been worse. There is no way of knowing, yet people took the view that it would have been better if a different group of players had played.