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Author Topic: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked  (Read 219184 times)

Offline Legion

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #870 on: February 03, 2011, 05:26:12 PM »
Louis Vitton or Dolce Gabana?

Radley's.

Offline Jimbo

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #871 on: February 03, 2011, 06:07:02 PM »
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?

I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.

Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.

This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.

Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.

There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.

Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.

Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters'). 

Offline villajk

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #872 on: February 03, 2011, 06:09:45 PM »

Offline Nev

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #873 on: February 03, 2011, 06:45:42 PM »
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?

I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.

Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.

This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.

Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.

There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.

Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.

Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters'). 

History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.
But your original point was regarding the relative lack of fuss for the Top Gear incident in comparison to Keys/Gray and that is purely down to the context.

Offline D.boy

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Offline Jimbo

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #875 on: February 03, 2011, 07:12:32 PM »
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?

I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.

Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.

This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.

Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.

There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.

Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.

Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters'). 

History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.


Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be. 

 

Offline Somniloquism

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #876 on: February 05, 2011, 08:28:19 PM »
Should Stephen Fry and whoever was on QI for the programme that upset the Japanese be sacked then?

Clicky

Offline damon loves JT

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #877 on: February 05, 2011, 10:29:35 PM »
Steve Coogan has had his say

Spot on, it seems to me.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #878 on: February 05, 2011, 11:18:56 PM »
When it comes to Top Gear, I'm with Stewart Lee.


Offline Nev

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #879 on: February 06, 2011, 07:29:16 AM »
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?

I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.

Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.

This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.

Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.

There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.

Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.

Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters'). 

History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.


Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be. 

 

The point of my post was to try and point out why the Top gear presenters thought it acceptable to make jokes at the expense of the Mexicans and not Jews or Pakistani's, Coogans article puts it better than I ever could.

Offline Jimbo

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #880 on: February 06, 2011, 09:11:10 AM »
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?

I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.

Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.

This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.

Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.

There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.

Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.

Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters'). 

History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.


Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be. 

 

The point of my post was to try and point out why the Top gear presenters thought it acceptable to make jokes at the expense of the Mexicans and not Jews or Pakistani's, Coogans article puts it better than I ever could.

I'm sorry, I got the impression you were condoning their comments because they were said jokingly, on a lighthearted entertainment programme. I agree with Coogan. And I think it's either wrong to take the piss out of all nationalities and ethnicities, or they are all fair game. The fact that some are out of bounds because they are either on our doorstep, or they would kick up a mighty fuss, smacks of hypocrisy. Give the French stick, persist in using the phrase 'Argies', but never say anything rude about Jamaicans or repeat unpleasant remarks about 'Pakis', because you'll find yourself in much bigger trouble than if you'd said women don't understand the offside rule. 

What I found offensive about their comments wasn't the comments themselves. It was the fact they knew they could get away with making them - but you knew they wouldn't dare say anything about certain other nationalities or ethnic groups. Clarkson, Hammond and May know perfectly well how to pick their targets, but they are untouchable because they make the BBC a fortune - and because nobody in Britain gives a shit what Mexicans think. Gray and Keys were set upon, in my opinion, because Sky wanted rid, and because women are a much more visible 'group' than Mexicans.   

Fry's comments on QI? Can't see anything wrong with them. What did he say, that the bloke who was at Nagasaki and Hiroshima was unlucky? Nothing offensive about that at all. Alan Davies, on the other hand, should be sacked, slapped and thrown down a steep railway embankment for being as funny as an anal fissure.


Offline bob

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #881 on: February 06, 2011, 09:50:04 AM »

Offline Lizz

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Re: Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked
« Reply #882 on: February 06, 2011, 10:20:20 AM »
It's a good article, but wonder whether Steve Coogan's enjoyed an opportunity to knock Top Gear for sibling revenge. Vague recollections that his brother Brendan used to be involved in the programme and was sacked or didn't have his contract renewed.

 


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