In defence of Houllier

[ROBBO]

I don't know whether he is a good manager or whether he's too old and the game is beyond him but i do know  he has had very little go his way at Villa. Take the Sunderland game, he wasn't the one who put us down to ten men it was Heskey, apart from that the biggest complaint was his playing Gabby wide left. If we had kept the eleven on the pitch we may have won, we lost and so the Gabby saga reaches a crescendo. He has come into a club where very average players are being paid enormous
amounts of money so much so they will gladly sit on the bench because no other idiot is going to pay them what O'Neill did, we just can't shift them easily. When he tried to put some discipline in place we all cheered about time we said, then when the results didn't materialise it was his fault for putting the players offside. Then there is Carew, comes back after an exteded holiday and says he's not fit enough to play, our leading goalscorer from last year not fit enough, should Houllier get on his knees and beg him to pull on the boots.
He may have done a few things wrong but is it all his fault? no way known.

[Simba]

Appreciate the debate but it is very difficult to defend the man isn't it.

The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?

Anyway that is the past. Currently he has alienated the fans, divided the dressing room, destroyed our very effective defence, appears tactically immature, collapsed morale in the team, and dropped us into a relegation place with a disastrous series of results.

Lets be honest with demotivated, confused players out of position, running around like the proverbial decapitated fowl, and substitutions at 87 minutes his record on the pitch let alone off it is just indefensible.


Be interesting to see what other commentary you receive on this thread. Brave man.

[Nev]

It's foolish to suggest that everything is Houlliers fault when it clearly isn't but at the same time, he is ultimately responsible for results and they are not forthcoming.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for him but my primary concern is Villa. Despite the wailing and moaning he was left a squad that is capable of holding it's own in the division, expecting any more would be foolhardy given the timing of of MON's departure. For all the positives such as the emergence of youth and the fine form (if not goal scoring) from Heskey, there is the alarming dip in form of so many players and catastrophic defence.

Most concerning of all is the managers inability to motivate the side, after Wednesday one can only take the Chelsea game as a blip, and this is the biggest issue when it comes to winning games at the moment. How the coming and going of the transfer window will affect this is puzzling, unless he buys a whole new squad.

The players must take a huge amount of blame, but in football it's the manager who is ultimatley responsible and while a turnover of players is required, avoiding relegation is the primary issue now and I don't believe the current manager, on the evidence so far can achieve this aim.

[Simba]

Robbo. Might be worth looking up the Daily Mail- Midlander article. Can't do links. Can't do computers, sorry.

[ROBBO]

I read the article partly the reason for coming to Houlliers defence, it is easy for scribes to apportion blame without giving any answers, we all like someone to blame. I have never see a season when there are so many managers under pressure and to me the answer isn't all that difficult. Chelsea because they havn't strengthened in twelve months, Villa ditto, West Ham because they were crap before the season started and havn't strengthened and Liverpool guess what.

[pauliewalnuts]

The inability to build on the Chelsea performance - we looked worse than we had been before - was the most disappointing and worrying thing.

[Villa'Zawg]

There undoubtedly are some mitigating circumstances but there is nothing that justifies our team being the worst team in the PL since Gerard arrived.

[ROBBO]

In reply to that i would say there isn't a team in the premier league that has had so many long term injuries within weeks of each other and had to rely on so many kids.

[BannedUserIAT]

Another great thread, Robbo. And certainly something that everyone will have an opinion on.

For me, Houllier isn't entirely to blame - it's not entirely his fault that Ashley Young shanks so many balls into the stadium or that Gabby can't control a ball or that someone loses the plot and gets sent off.

The players aren't entirely to blame - it's not Gabby's fault he's stuck on the one wing while the preferred winger is lost on the other, or that such talent is stuck on the bench until it's too late.

And the board isn't entirely to blame either. They picked a manager with a good CV, a decent backroom staff and have done all they can with the facilities to get the most out of the playing staff.

But the league is such that when you get everything spot on, you get a Top Four place as a reward. Get a few things wrong here or there and you finish mid-table. Get a few more wrong and you're fighting relegation. Bollocks up completely and you're off to play in a different league.

It's obvious to all that, although we've not yet bollocksed it all up yet, we're working toward it! But the difference between that point and mid-table is so slight that we really only need a few things to change.

The players attitude for one. I don't give a fuck if they don't like their boss. Half the population are in that boat. Knuckle down and do the job you're paid astronomically well to do!

 The manager needs to realise that the time to use this season as a training session/transition period/getting to know you, is over. We're in the shit. Pick a game plan - a simple one - and stick with it. Let's get out of this hole we're in and mess about in the pre-season.

The board need to get in a real football man. This 16 year old lad they've got has to move into a different role. I'm sure he's got a brilliant business head but in order to run a football club as a successful business, you've got to get the football right first. He's five, maybe ten years from being able to do this.

Small changes now will save us. Let's look at more radical change when the season's over.

Sounds easy enough but, sadly, there are far too many ego's and way too many Billy Big Bollocks to make it as  easy as it sounds. But THAT is up to Houllier to sort out. And to sort out NOW!

[UsualSuspect]

he has not got a fucking clue

Robert Pires case in point

[ajmant]

I actually thought the appointment was a good one, totally out of the blue but ok.

However, to take a team that has played direct football, counter attackiing style and then suddenly expect the same players to suddenly pass their way to success is foolish, and that appears to be what we are trying to do.

Way to soon in my opinion.

Martin O'Neils team was bought to counter attack. And it worked. We played that way for 3 years. The same players cannot be expected to suddenly pass the opposition to death, they just are not the players to do it.

If, and it's a big if at the moment, we do stay up, then I think the appointment long term could be a good one. But the manager should have had the foresight and abilitiy to realise you can't change things overniight. That for me is the most damaging thing he has tried to do.

[BannedUserIAT]

Oh, and Houllier needs to lose his defeatist attitude. And fast. John Terry pointed out last season that they knew the Villa would be all but spent by the 70 minute mark. I'm sure teams this reason are all too aware that a two goal cussion - regardless of how long there is to go - is enough to have us licked.

We are now in a fight for our lives. The players won't give a flying fuck as they're not supporters, they'll get picked up by other teams should the worst happen and no doubt get lush signing on bonuses. Houllier needs to get all Alex Ferguson on them with the hair dryer and make them afraid for their careers

Has he got the balls to do it? We'll find out soon enough.
.

[jonzy85]

He isnt completely to blame and I dont think anyone expected him to have us anywhere near where we were last year.

However, we currently sit in the relegation places, he seems completely unable to get his message across to the players or motivate them. Yes the players have to shoulder some of the blame. I personally have played under a manager who we had completely no faith in and as hard as you try it is the most disheartening and dispiriting experience. I know our players are supposed to be professionals but no matter how may thousands you put in their pockets each week it doesnt change the fact that they are human beings. They arent robots who can turn it on and off, they need to be managed correctly, which GH isnt doing.

Getting rid of GH wont solve all of our problems, but it will go some way to solving one.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Robbo, a well argued brave defence of Houllier.
I have stuck up for him too until the Sunderland game and am nearly always for giving managers more time than they usually get these days.
However, I finally lost patience on Wednesday. Im no master tactician, I just like to see my team win and if possible win with entertaining football. But I felt he made a catalogue of errors on Wednesday, apart from the Gabby/Ashley issue, there seemed a distinct lack of indecision from the touchline. Right now I have lost confidence in him as I now wonder what other  errors are being made at Bodymoor Heath in handling and preparing players for games. More importantly than me losing confidence in him, I think that loss of confidence applies to some of the very players we need to try and get us out this mess.

[BannedUserIAT]

To the above poster who is using Pires as a seemingly be-all end-all arguement, I'll point you toward Didier Agathe. Something tried, nothing lost.

With all but the ball-boys injured, it wasn't a bad call to get him in. And I'm sure he's a good head to have on the training ground.

To me it shows that Houllier does realise the extent of our issues and is prepared to look outside the box to fix them.