Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?

[Olneythelonely]

He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.

Rubbish. I saw him play there a number of times under DOL and one thing he did was run. I will excuse most things but don't make excuses for the fact he didn;t put himself about. He made Bardsley look like Cafu!

Why did he play so much better at Stamford Bridge on SUnday where he was dangerous all game until injured yet couldn;t play the same position last night? DId he forget how to play in the 3 days between?

Are you sure you didn't see him play on the right wing?

No he didn't forget how to play, he just played poorly last night and played better against Chelsea. It happens, people have good and bad games. He was no worse abd put in no less effort than the other 9 players (excluding Heskey) and a lot of them were in their correct positions.

[PaulTheVillan]

I think Wellbeck has played on the left a few times for Man Utd & Sunderland, he seems to play well there and through the middle.

Sign him up

[oldtimernow]

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares,

Cares so much that he has to take the free kicks just outside our penalty area instead of being near the other penalty area looking to score......sorry he flatters to deceive for me

[timeoutbigbar]

It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there.  Regardless of form and the fact he is inconsistent, he remains one of the few players we have who can create a goal out of nothing.  I've said before that the reason he is so frustrating is because he is prepared to try something different, which won't always work, but atleast he's not playing sideways football.

[enigma]

That thread title annoys me. They may not ultimately live up to the lofty expectations of some fans but that doesn't make them frauds. There's nothing fraudulent about not being world class.

I'm with Olney, it just smacks of wanting an eye catching title to get people to click on it.

[enigma]

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares,

Cares so much that he has to take the free kicks just outside our penalty area instead of being near the other penalty area looking to score......sorry he flatters to deceive for me

Tell me how taking those free kicks mean he doesn't give a damn? If anything he needs to be told by the manager to leave those to Petrov but it's a bit of a leap to assume that because he's taking free kicks in our half it must mean he doesn't give a shit.

[barrysleftfoot]

   "eye-catching title" to get "people to click on it"?.......not quite sure why you think i would want to do that.

  Take your point though, like a lot of threads after a defeat it was probably posted in haste, and possibly frauds indicates the wrong inference, still have the same opinions of them though.

[villa1]

He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.

I'd say it was actually a little bit of both.

[enigma]

   "eye-catching title" to get "people to click on it"?.......not quite sure why you think i would want to do that.

  Take your point though, like a lot of threads after a defeat it was probably posted in haste, and possibly frauds indicates the wrong inference, still have the same opinions of them though.

I actually agree up to a point that they probably won't become as good as we hoped, not with us anyway but that's hardly fraudulent on their part.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

As I thought they would both turn out to be decent, good Premier League players and they have, they are therefore not 'frauds' in my book. The problem as ever is that we, as seems to be fashion everywhere these days, start describing these players as 'awesome', 'amazing' and 'fantastic' after just a few games where they played well...

In Gabby's defence, he's hardly going to be a prolific goalscorer if he gets next to no decent service. Play to his strengths and he'll deliver.

As for Ashley, I partly agree with Jembob, for all his talent, I just wish he would keep it simple and keep the attack flowing, rather than deciding to do his own thing. The problem is, as Richard stated above, he's been built up to be this wonderful, world class, amazing and fantastic player so he feels he has to do something special everytime he gets the ball. As much as I admire his workrate, I often get the feeling he's unintentionally playing for himself.

[gti2win]

Olney, you have made on clear on some of your other posts that you think gabby is our most important and probably best player, and to quote you i think your are wrong, very wrong

Oldtimer, maybe you could explain how ash taking those free kicks means he doesnt care ?

[ozzjim]

I'd keep Gabby, I don't think he'll be a bad apple. He's useful, but he could be a better player if he improved his off the ball movement & finishing.
If we get a £20m bid for Young, I'm afraid I hope we sell him.

Pretty much the same. Young is at his best on the left wing but seems to have decided he wants to play up front, where he is too lightweight to play as far forward as he seems to want to, has no natural movement, can't head and loses the ball a lot!!

Gabby needs to lose a little bulk and get fully fit. The pace is not there at the moment, but his hold up play is worse than last year significantly. Stick with him, sign some competition.

[myf]

It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there.  Regardless of form and the fact he is inconsistent, he remains one of the few players we have who can create a goal out of nothing.  I've said before that the reason he is so frustrating is because he is prepared to try something different, which won't always work, but atleast he's not playing sideways football.

Here here.  He would be badly missed like Milner. 

I think many of the players who wanted to give Houllier a chance have now lost faith in him.  Thats where the problem lies.

[TheSandman]

For me both are suffering from being played in positions that are not suited to them. Ash should play at left wing and Gabby up front. The free role is not a good place for him and his non-scoring. It blunts us and him as a player and Gabby wide left? Do me a fucking favour.

Gabby (along with Heskey) suffered badly from our lack of creativity. Two central midfielders that lack talent and the ability to play or create, a Downing and a Young who wasted so many opportunities through stupidity. He also faces the issues of being played in a position he is not suited to and for a manager I don't think rates him that much (Heskey is obviously our first choice forward and we are looking at bringing others in... What would you think if you were Gabby?). That is before you get on to the injuries and not quite being in the groove. I like Gabby, he is and will be a more than solid PL player but he is not going to be absolutely top class.

As for Ash. He is not anything like as good as some think. He is no genius or world class player but he is a decent enough winger who is waaaaaaaaaay better than Lennon or SWP. He is not making as many right decisions as he used to or as exciting a player as two, three years ago and I cannot explain it. I don't know whether it's him, the opposition or the management. Still a good player who always tries hard mind. You cannot fault him on that. He and Gabby are certainly no Oscar Arce.

[Nastylee]

I believe playing to their strengths would be a start. Gabby needs space to run into to take advantage of his pace. Playing him left wing means he is normally marked, often by two players, and therefore has little room to exploit. As for Young, he's best in the last third. Unfortunately, he is dropping deeper with each game to try and influence games. I don't think he's selfish, I believe he is trying too hard to take responsibility and make something positive happen. However, with things not coming off I feel it's being misinterpreted by some fans.

Anyway, that's my take and this could be easily solved if GH would tinker and put things back to how they were. It's proven to work and we need to go back to basics at the moment and regain some confidence. Young can find space on the wing and cross and Gabby has proved he will get a dozen or so goal, often in gluts and we need a glut now. How different things would be if he could bag 5 or 6 goals in the next 8 games.