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Author Topic: The problem with the Dunne & Collins pair  (Read 17872 times)

Offline richard moore

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2011, 11:37:23 PM »
Gross exaggeration. I don't mean to be rude but how long have you been following the Villa if you think our current pairing is the worst ever? Presumably you don't remember the mid 80s for example and such luminaries as Brendan Ormsby, Dean Glover, Steve Foster and Paul Elliott to name but four. Or, forgive me, perhaps you're not old enough to...

I have been following Villa since 1978-79 season, but, living in Italy, until about ten years ago I couldn't see all the games like I do now, and I should be satisfied with the one or two games that I could manage to see live, at VP or in some London stadia.
So, you're right, I certainly can have exagerrated, but what I meant is that I can't acclimatize to have two central defenders that always belt the ball clear and renounce to create from the back, this not my idea of football. 

Change the title of the thread in that case Archie! And I do realise you live in Italy, Frank often talks of you. Nothing can come remotely close to some of the mid 80s central defending, except perhaps Ehiogu in his early days...

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2011, 11:50:02 PM »
Gross exaggeration. I don't mean to be rude but how long have you been following the Villa if you think our current pairing is the worst ever? Presumably you don't remember the mid 80s for example and such luminaries as Brendan Ormsby, Dean Glover, Steve Foster and Paul Elliott to name but four. Or, forgive me, perhaps you're not old enough to...

I have been following Villa since 1978-79 season, but, living in Italy, until about ten years ago I couldn't see all the games like I do now, and I should be satisfied with the one or two games that I could manage to see live, at VP or in some London stadia.
So, you're right, I certainly can have exagerrated, but what I meant is that I can't acclimatize to have two central defenders that always belt the ball clear and renounce to create from the back, this not my idea of football. 

Change the title of the thread in that case Archie! And I do realise you live in Italy, Frank often talks of you. Nothing can come remotely close to some of the mid 80s central defending, except perhaps Ehiogu in his early days...

Ugo on his debut had the shocker of all shockers. Yet he ended up being part of a very tidy defensive partnership with Southgate. Yep, the early to mid-80's was abysmal. I shudder just thinking about Steve Foster in a Villa shirt. We've been quite lucky overall for good number of years, and have had some good pairs and for a while played with 3 off course. This partnership doesn't come close to being the worst ever.

Offline not3bad

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2011, 11:55:27 PM »
Can I just cast everyone's minds back to the latter part of season 2008-2009, after Laursen had been injured?  Who were our central defensive pairing then?  Was it Curtis & Knight?

Offline olaftab

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2011, 12:00:45 AM »
Nothing wrong with belting it out however Dunne has been abysmal this season.
By the way have you forgotten Liam Ridgewell?

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2011, 12:02:59 AM »
I think we sat too deep at 2-1 if anything, we put pressure on our defence
We should arguably have gone for the jugular then but our lads seemed to run out of steam

It comes down to the same thing really, we don't keep the ball well enough when we're winning.


Online Monty

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2011, 12:04:47 AM »
I think we sat too deep at 2-1 if anything, we put pressure on our defence
We should arguably have gone for the jugular then but our lads seemed to run out of steam

It comes down to the same thing really, we don't keep the ball well enough when we're winning.

I agree. Look how Spurs played when they were 1-0 up, despite being a man down. That's how to protect a lead.

Offline olaftab

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2011, 12:08:53 AM »
However it WAS Chelsea we were playing..so not  easy to keep ball

Offline Archie

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2011, 12:09:10 AM »
Change the title of the thread in that case Archie! And I do realise you live in Italy, Frank often talks of you. Nothing can come remotely close to some of the mid 80s central defending, except perhaps Ehiogu in his early days...

Ok, the title was a little bit emphatic, but don't take me too seriously Richard, I have always considered this beautiful forum like a family, an environment where you can use a jocose expression. . .

I nearly had a heart attack today, and even in the previous matches, starting from Newcastle (where  a bunch of mates of mine went spending the equivalent of a season ticket, maybe more), and after six months our defensive weakness hasn't changed. It's a fact that every game we concede stupid goals, and a stupid goal conceded remains a stupid goal conceded even when you  have the chance to score a late equalizer.

I don't think that, if he could choose, GH would have chosen neither Dunne nor Collins, so let me hope that the defence will be entirely changed at the January transfer window.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 12:13:10 AM by Archie »

Online Monty

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2011, 12:12:01 AM »
However it WAS Chelsea we were playing..so not  easy to keep ball

No that's true, so even though I thought we were a little wasteful, the criticism doesn't apply as much today. However, if we're leading against Sunderland on Wednesday, you just know we're going to drop deep and invite the equaliser. It might work, if we score on the counter, but it often doesn't work.

Offline Lobsterboy

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2011, 12:17:15 AM »
To answer the question; one word - No!

Collins and Dunne may not be the best but they are by no means the worst Archie...

Offline olaftab

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2011, 12:41:55 AM »
However it WAS Chelsea we were playing..so not  easy to keep ball


No that's true, so even though I thought we were a little wasteful, the criticism doesn't apply as much today. However, if we're leading against Sunderland on Wednesday, you just know we're going to drop deep and invite the equaliser. It might work, if we score on the counter, but it often doesn't work.
Yes agreed this has been our worst habit  (v Stoke, Spurs, Fulham away, Manu u at home) but not only this season. We were gifted with this  during MON's  reign.

Online Monty

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2011, 12:46:15 AM »
However it WAS Chelsea we were playing..so not  easy to keep ball


No that's true, so even though I thought we were a little wasteful, the criticism doesn't apply as much today. However, if we're leading against Sunderland on Wednesday, you just know we're going to drop deep and invite the equaliser. It might work, if we score on the counter, but it often doesn't work.
Yes agreed this has been our worst habit  (v Stoke, Spurs, Fulham away, Manu u at home) but not only this season. We were gifted with this  during MON's  reign.

It was an active tactic during MON's reign. I suppose he 'reasoned' that if we couldn't break down packed defences, then nobody else could either.

Online eamonn

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2011, 01:09:31 AM »
We were defending pretty much non-stop from about the 55th minute onwards against the champions. Out of form champions maybe but they still have plenty of quality. They were at home aswell. So although two goals conceded in the last ten minutes looks poor I think it was more a consequence of us inviting pressure on for the best part of 30 minutes and not pressing higher up the pitch. But that's what great teams can do to you.

One of my pet peeves with Friedel, despite some important interventions by him today, was prevalent again with Terry's goal. That 'palming the ball straight back out to the area where the shot came in so as to give the opposition a rebound' thing. Concede  a corner, try and tip it away to the side, but this flamboyant palm-back has cost us quite a bit.

Offline hawkeye

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2011, 01:10:32 AM »
Both are ball winning defenders, both like to attack thr ball, they rely too heavily on last ditch defending, they are both too smilar, Curtis Davies was supposed to be the other type of centre half, a cover to drop off the ball winner. Collins does panic and slash at the ball and Dunnes composure is lacking.

Online Monty

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Re: The worst pair of central defenders ever?
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2011, 01:22:00 AM »
Agree with both of you, Eamonn and Hawkeye. Despite Friedel's shot-blocking heroics, he has weaknesses in some of those nuances which make great keepers great. You'd never see Kahn or Buffon palming the ball to the areas Friedel does. I'm not sure it's his fault, might just be a question of talent at that minute level, but it's why he's always been a very good keeper throughout his career, rather than a great one.

Hawkeye, agreed again. Most of the art of defending isn't in the dramatic last-ditch situations, but in making sure it never gets to that stage. That was the genius of God, as well as greats like Cannavaro and Moore, that they'd read the game so well that they'd intercept at just the right moment to snuff out all danger, which also gives you more time on the ball to play out from defence like Archie wants (as do I and many others). Dunne and Collins did pretty well with the last ditch stuff, but it shouldn't have got to that stage as often as it did as that invites trouble and, because you're doing so many last-ditch clearances, is self-perpetuating.

 


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