Something I don't understand

[Concrete John]

It still doesn't mean he got anything like 100 percent motivation from all the players as originally suggested, mind.

I think MON got 100% from the players that were playing.

[Jimbo]

Until performance related pay gets brought in,it's always gonna be the same,and that's not just at Villa but at all clubs. There is no emotional attachment to clubs anymore,unless you're a young layer who has come through the ranks. Players have the role of whores,with agents as pimps,and clubs as clients...not that i'm an expert in that field!

No, the clubs are merely the bordellos at which the players fuck the fans.

[mrfuse]

To go back to the original point, why do players who have spent their entire lives being self-motivated and single-minded to the point of obsession suddenly lose this desire? Is it all just about money?

Maybe rather than losing desire, it's the loss of confidence and how frail it can become when under pressure to perform at the highest level that has a big effect. Playing to 10 men and a dog with no media spotlight for years doesn't prepare you for everything. Obviously they are amply rewarded for whatever perceived disadvantages they encounter as top-flight players but I imagine self-doubt can affect most minds. 

That's my take on it too. A player lacking in confidence will look unmotivated because he's scared shitless of making a mistake. It is also self perpetuating.

This is where the coaching staff and the senior players come in. It's time for them to take responibility.

Yeah I agree with this comment If we look at our national game currently I believe its very similar to the Villa set up and for me its all down to the Manager and coaching.

Capello like Houllier seems to rule with an iron fist and while we all think thats what these overpaid stars actually need for the majority it doesnt seem to translate on the pitch.
What we get is talented players like Rooney who look like they have never kicked a ball and dont seem to care, but like what has been said is basically the players have no confidence.

Say what you like about managers like Harry and MON but they seem to be able to get into the players mind which I believe is a huge percentage of coaching these days they are able to balance a bit of discipline but mainly motivation.
For me Harry should be the England Manager because of this, all the England players need is someone to tap into their fragile minds to get belief and confidence back so we can get back to playing like a team.

I think the French also suffered the same in the world cup under Domenech and didnt we see the difference under Blanc within a couple of games.

Going back to ourselves we have that same problem and while certain players respond to this kind of management IE Heskey the majority do not. You cant imagine for example Houllier putting his arm around any of our players never mind doing that and telling them how special their are!

And while many of you will say they get bloody paid millions to play well, I agree but the days of being given a bollocking seem to have disappeared with all this money that is paid, Fergie realised it too and adapted it seems they all need to feel wanted and told how good they are and the Managers that make that connection are the ones that succeed these days

[garyshawsknee]

Until performance related pay gets brought in,it's always gonna be the same,and that's not just at Villa but at all clubs. There is no emotional attachment to clubs anymore,unless you're a young layer who has come through the ranks. Players have the role of whores,with agents as pimps,and clubs as clients...not that i'm an expert in that field!

No, the clubs are merely the bordellos at which the players fuck the fans.

 Yep youre right,the fans dont even get a hand job out of if though.

[brontebilly]

It's not exclusively about Villa, or Houllier, but it's something I honestly don't get.

Players such as most of ours have been playing football seriously almost since they could walk. At every stage they've been the best of their contemporaries, but also the keenest, the hardest-working and the most dedicated. If they hadn't been, they wouldn't have got this far.

They'll have played for dozens of managers and coaches, not got on with some, and a few will have been nowhere near the level their ability required. Yet they would have had to play their hearts out for every one, otherwise they'd never have got to the next level.

So why is it that having got this far, they quite clearly decide they don't want to perform to anywhere near their best, whether that's because they don't get on with the manager, or for some other reason? Not just at Villa, but so often elsewhere as well.

I dont think its a matter of deciding not to bother their arse anymore. I think players really deep down have zero attachment to their football clubs anymore. Players are only human after all, people leave jobs all the time for more money, status, greater recognition etc footballers are no different. When we were chasing Champions League places and Cup finals everyone was bursting their arse to do their best now as we head towards the Championship a lot of players look for an excuse and a way out.  Its sad but its the reality of the situation.

Self belief as a sportsman is like smack for a junkie. Look at Gareth Bale a year ago to now. It is obvious that the self belief at Villa is on the floor. Players also like to be sure of their roles, to be honest ever since the first game of the season where no midfielder bothered to defend it has been clear that noone is sure what is expected of him when he puts on a Villa shirt. Add in a load of players close to the 30 mark looking for one last contract, agents no doubt stoking up moves behind the scenes, a board in cost cutting mode and a manager completely out of his depth and you have the perfect storm.

What I find incredible about modern footballers is how many of them dont strive to be the best they can be. Take Stephen Ireland, a special case no doubt, but over a year ago he was on about spending all summer doing kung fu and running up hills to improve as a footballer. It was all going great for him, suddenly Mancini leaves him out for a few games and he is all about needed to consider his career at City instead of bursting his balls to impress. Gets booted out of there the summer and you would think coming to Villa he would have a point to prove. Yet from the moment he has arrived it is like we arent good enough for him. He hasnt tried a leg and seems content to head to Stoke or Celtic or some other place rather than push on at Villa. Another James Milner was developing into a fine centre midfielder at Villa. Ive watched him at City this season and he is back to beinga leggy one paced wideman. So what if he earns double his money surely being the best footballer you can be should count for something. Evidently not for modern day players.

[stevenjos]

its fairly obvious that the motivation of the players at villa is down to the manager at the minute... Dunne isnt a bad player... Carew when bothered isnt a bad striker..... But under the H man. they dont want to play for him.

[pauliewalnuts]

its fairly obvious that the motivation of the players at villa is down to the manager at the minute... Dunne isnt a bad player... Carew when bothered isnt a bad striker..... But under the H man. they dont want to play for him.

Dunne isn't a bad player, but he's a dreadful professional - the size of him after the summer break attested to that. That is just not acceptable.

Carew when bothered isn't a bad striker - no, but the "when bothered" thing says it all. He's a professional footballer, he's supposed to be bothered all the time - at least the very minimum that requires him not to take an extra few days holiday when he fancies it, or to cry off matches sick when he can't be arsed.

They might not be bad players, but with that lack of professionalism, they may as well have one leg for all the use they are to us.

[kippaxvilla2]

Gavin McCann played on one leg, look where that nearly got us.

[kippaxvilla2]

Quite simply players get to a certain level and think they have made it, that's it.  You are pretty well guaranteed a sizeable wage packet each week and when you get a manager in who doesn't display any passion, upsets certain individuals without giving them a chance as soon as he walks through the door, insists on twice daily sergeant major style training drills, then the apathy of individuals just grows as does a manifestation of hate for the individual trying to lead them.  It provides a growing excuse culture, as well as one of blame.  And all those ego's in one room providing those cultures leads to a piss poor situation on the field of play.  I believe he has a pretty divided dressing room at the moment and the ethos of success is based on everyone pulling in one direction.  This is not happening.  In my view, there has been too much change in too short a period of time and it isn't reaping any rewards.  One has to remember that prior to Houllier's arrival, we did have a largely winning formula.  I don't buy this everyone hated MO'N crap, I believe they perhaps wouldn't choose to go out to dinner with him, but at the end of the day feared and respected him and would run through walls for him.  Look at Houlliers body language compared to that.

[Mister E]

I think it's a combionation of factors, the main ones being:
- teams get into the habit of winning or losing. at the moment we couldn't buy a win; we're in the slough of a large losing run.
- GH is, I think, trying to change the game-play in some way and the players - and particularly the defenders - don't get it or don't trust it.
- the senior players are not showing any leadership.

I also agree that the current remuneration structure for footballers seems counter-productive in terms of motivation and focus.

We're a bad place!

[hawkeye]

This happens in lots of eniorenments where you have teams and competition, its certainly common in business situations when there is a change at the top, the worst in human nature surfaces,  the team ethic goes out the window. Instead you get fear, self promotion, back stabbing a breakdown in trust of the leaders and piers. Then factions start to develop. If this has happened here we are in deep shit. It takes a lot of skill and ruthless determination to get through this.

[barrysleftfoot]

    Good question dave, and one thing that always intrigues me, is what if the players have their way and get the manager the sack?

   Would we be in a better position if Dunne, Warnock et al get their way and GH gets the sack?  For me the answer is no, and i think thats why we need GH to at least bring his own players in.There are a lot of things that worry me about GH, but sacking him because players like Ireland, Carew want him gone would be very detremental to our club.

[ronshirt]

I think it's deliberate - the manager pisses them off so they play so badly that the board have no choice but to replace the manager. It might even be an unspoken thing. I think some of our players don't want to play for Houllier but I think there might be more who just don't want to play for the club.

[mike]

I watch more rugby than football now. When the 80 minutes are up, if the attacking side is camped on the opposition line then, even if a converted try will make no difference to the result, both teams will play on for as long as it takes to score a try/clear the ball. Bear in mind this means crunching tackles with 15/16 stone blokes smashing into you (poor old Didier would be down and out) for no reason other than pride. They might as well just put the ball out and stop the game, but they don't. What footballer would risk serious injury for a consolation goal? And another thing. When a player gets injured, they treat him on the pitch with play continuing. Footballers are overpaid, narcissistic pansies. What's more the league is now just a question of who has the most money. City, Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal living off past glories dominating the whole show, bollocks to that, give me rugby with it's wage cap.

[darren woolley]

I also don't understand how can players such as Ireland, Carew, Dunne and the rest not look interested i know the money play's a big part but why do they have to act like this and walk around as if they are better than they think they are i think we need someone who can motivate them and get 110% out of them and get there hunger back.