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Author Topic: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread  (Read 32622 times)

Offline Lucky Eddie

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In short, twenty years ago a ninety year old mate of mine who was born on one of terraced streets outside the ground, once showed me his birth certificate which he proudly proclaimed to prove that he was from Aston but not a Brummie. As I recall he was recorded as being born in 'Aston within the borough of Aston Manor.'

Now my old man' being from Lozells and knowing a thing or two, and it has to be said happy to make up the rest, reckoned the Hawthornes was purposely built in Birmingham to encourage the wealthy of Handsworth to follow the stripes. This at a time when (as I once read in The Birmingham Metro so it simply must be true  ;) ) Handsworth was a larger and more important region than both Ipswich and  Exeter.

Both now sadly 'Holte Enders in the sky' I can't ask them but if they're right, Villa Park wasn't built in Birmingham but The Hawthornes was. Does that sound right?

Thank you.

Ed.

Offline Oh Andy

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 08:24:16 PM »
That's one for Carl Chinn.

Offline Risso

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 08:24:38 PM »
Sorry nothing to do with your question mate, but it sort of pertains to Villa history.  I was talking to our UK sales manager at work today, and she noticed the Villa mug on my desk.  Turns out her dad was John Dunn, who played in goal in the 1971 final v Spurs.

Offline brian green

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 09:07:24 PM »
My birth certificate says Aston within the Borough of Aston Manor but my mother lied as I was actually born in Sparkbrook which was much too close to Small Heath for her liking.

By contrast my wife was born in Hall Green but has Solihull Village on her birth certificate

Offline Brian Taylor

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 10:03:29 PM »
Eddie
I recall going to a party in Handsworth to watch the Albion on TV at a friend of friends house for the 1968 FA Cup final.  I went along with some Villa supporting friends from South Birmingham so it was quite a journey in many respects back then. It was a big new house and they were rich Baggies supporters, which caused me some concern then, as they were also Brummies with whom we mingled in the centre of town from time to time, with never a hint of rivalry problem. It was a surprise and shock to me that fellow Brummies could support or get animated about any other team.
WBA were the team to beat then. I recall the Jeff Astle goal as it brought out the distinct reaction in all them other lot and set the tone for the day. It was a good, a great, goal and emphasised that I was in a foreign place with people who got very excited about the fortunes of another team. Funny how the emotional confusion, as much as anything,  sticks in one's memory. It was just a goal to me and I was not joyously celebrating. It was the last great high point for them, I suppose.  We went on to greater things later but your remark brought the occasion back to mind. Maybe it was the end of an era in some ways?
Later on I recall we were back in central Brum and it was quiet by comparison with the elation enjoyed in Handsworth Wood. It was definitely a big posh place and a great big TV...funny never got an invite again though; but I had seen another bit of the world for sure.

After that, for away matches, it was the smokey upper deck of a Corporation bus from near St Chad's and up Constitution Hill and you were there and back again in darkness to The Windsor to tell the story. .not quite the same level of poshness ever again but always an adventure going to the other extremes of the city. Certainly not the same as going down the Coventry Road which can be very foreign indeed these days, and I certainly never feelt as comfortable in Cattle Road for sure. Someone definitely got the map arseways there,,
I've always thought since that if there was to be ground sharing it would be with WBA..and not the other lot. Maybe we'd get a few converts?
Saturday puts them back in the same frame as the team to beat again..different world now though..very different.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM by Brian Taylor »

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 10:09:24 PM »
The Hawthorns has never been part of Birmingham. The city boundary is said to run through what used to be the Woodman corner but that might be a myth. Perry Barr was in Staffordshire when Villa played there and Villa Park was originally in Aston Manor, which was seperate from Birmingham until 1911.


Offline ADVILLAFAN

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 10:21:54 PM »
I thought when they played us in the FA Cup final either in 1887 or 1895, West Brom were so confident of victory that they'd arranged for there to be a procession that bypassed Birmingham completely. If they hated Brum so much, surely they wouldn't have built the Hawthorns in the city.

I heard something like this off my brother.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 10:27:56 PM »
I thought when they played us in the FA Cup final either in 1887 or 1895, West Brom were so confident of victory that they'd arranged for there to be a procession that bypassed Birmingham completely. If they hated Brum so much, surely they wouldn't have built the Hawthorns in the city.

I heard something like this off my brother.

1887. They arranged for their train home to go on a circular route that prevented it travelling through Birmingham.

Online JJ-AV

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 12:16:08 AM »
I love threads like this. Cheers for posting and the replies.

Offline Pat McMahon

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 06:04:00 AM »
My (soon to be ex-) brother in law is a copper in Lloyd House. He used to be based in Piddock Road nick in Smethwick as well as Soho Rd and told me that the Hawthorns was literally half in Brum and half in W Bromwich and as a result the matchday policing is supplied by two separate police stations. Accordingly, he always says there are two and a half teams in Brum.

In the late 70s and early 80s the walk back along Soho Rd towards Lozells after the game was a nightmare – gangs of Villa fans robbing the shops along the way and the owners tooled up with hockey sticks. Police sirens a blazing and an air of anarchy as the cops could not cope.

Risso, what is John Dunn doing now? He was the first Villa keeper I really remember and my recollection is of him having cracking sideburns and being a dab hand at saving penalties.

Offline ADVILLAFAN

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 08:58:06 AM »
The first time I went to the Hawthorns I was surprised to see that it was in Sandwell, rather than West Bromwich.

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 09:27:25 AM »
Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

Offline E I Adio

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2010, 09:46:55 AM »
The first time I went to the Hawthorns I was surprised to see that it was in Sandwell, rather than West Bromwich.

West Brom became part of the newly invented borough of Sandwell in the early seventies if memory serves.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 10:55:05 AM »
Anywhere north of Worcester and south of Stafford is in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned.

I'd agree with that, too.

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: A Century (or more) of Birmingham geographical history on one thread
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 11:06:45 AM »
The Hawthorns has never been part of Birmingham. The city boundary is said to run through what used to be the Woodman corner but that might be a myth. Perry Barr was in Staffordshire when Villa played there and Villa Park was originally in Aston Manor, which was seperate from Birmingham until 1911.


Why let facts get in the way of a good story, nothing winds Albion fans up more than telling them they are a Birmingham club.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 11:21:00 AM by Bren_d »

 


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