collapse collapse

Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

Recent Topics

Chris Heck - President of Business Operations by Skerra
[Today at 12:18:27 PM]


Gordon Cowans by john2710
[Today at 12:11:45 PM]


Champions League Contention by AV82EC
[Today at 12:09:23 PM]


Other Games - 2023/24 by pablo_picasso
[Today at 12:05:29 PM]


Villa Park Redevelopment by Clampy
[Today at 11:52:46 AM]


All aboard the shuttle bus. by Nev
[Today at 10:25:19 AM]


FFP by thick_mike
[Today at 10:19:47 AM]


Aston Villa v Wolverhampton Wanderers Pre Match by Ian.
[Today at 10:01:07 AM]

Recent Posts

Re: Chris Heck - President of Business Operations by Skerra
[Today at 12:18:27 PM]


Re: Gordon Cowans by john2710
[Today at 12:11:45 PM]


Re: Champions League Contention by AV82EC
[Today at 12:09:23 PM]


Re: Champions League Contention by ez
[Today at 12:07:46 PM]


Re: Other Games - 2023/24 by pablo_picasso
[Today at 12:05:29 PM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Clampy
[Today at 11:52:46 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Villan82
[Today at 11:48:09 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Chico Hamilton III
[Today at 11:45:03 AM]

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Is this fair?  (Read 14392 times)

Offline peter w

  • Member
  • Posts: 35469
  • Location: Istanbul
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2010, 04:01:38 PM »
What does have a hint of truth is our injury situation.

Of the side on Saturday Gabby, Albrighton and Reo-Coker would definitely come back in - after that no-one really.

Admittedly our bench would be much stronger - the point is we are a less disciplined and organised side generally at the moment than we were under O'Neill.

Petrov, Heskey and Cuellar would all be there or thereabouts.

easy to forget that Heskey was playong as well as he's played for a very long time and was scoring and creating. He has been a huge miss for us.

Offline Percy McCarthy

  • Member
  • Posts: 31939
  • Location: I'm hiding in my hole
    • King City Online
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2010, 04:39:37 PM »
On the defence, it's no surprise that out-and-out defenders like Mellberg, Cuellar and Bouma, even playing at full-back, were better at defending than more attack-minded players  like Luke Young, Warnock and Shorey. Even though I didn't agree with it, I did find it baffling why so many posters found it baffling.

Offline peter w

  • Member
  • Posts: 35469
  • Location: Istanbul
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2010, 04:52:45 PM »
That's a bit too simplistic percy. A player is a defender because that's where his natural talents are. I'm not sure your Bouma v luke Young argument is compelling enough to be right. Or that Ashley Cole is not the best left full-back in world footballer and him being attack minded.

Warnock started out playing blinders for us for about half a season and has been struggling since he got injured and returned to the team. he really needs to be dropped. You also compared full-backs to central-defenders which isn't an accurate comparison.

Is Pique (Barcelona one) better worse than Mellberg or Cuellar because he's attack minded?

Offline Percy McCarthy

  • Member
  • Posts: 31939
  • Location: I'm hiding in my hole
    • King City Online
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2010, 04:58:10 PM »
Don't know about Pique, but surely everyone on here knows that Mellberg, Cuellar and Bouma are/were better in defensive situations, both in open play and especially at set-pieces, than Young, Shorey and Warnock. Sometimes, as you rightly point out, you get players who are excellent at both parts of the job, like Cole. Unfortunatly, such players usually end up at clubs like Chelsea and Barcelona.

Offline peter w

  • Member
  • Posts: 35469
  • Location: Istanbul
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2010, 05:00:06 PM »
But you're talking about specific players. The ones that you use fit the criteria as you point out. But it doesn't mean that all defensive minded players are the better defenders as the likes of Cole, ferdinand, Pique etc highlight. But, fair point, they do tend to be at the top clubs.

Offline Percy McCarthy

  • Member
  • Posts: 31939
  • Location: I'm hiding in my hole
    • King City Online
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2010, 05:04:20 PM »
But you're talking about specific players. The ones that you use fit the criteria as you point out.

That's because I'm talking about a specific defence - ours. I thought we all were.

Offline peter w

  • Member
  • Posts: 35469
  • Location: Istanbul
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2010, 05:05:29 PM »
I thought you were making a point that defence only defenders were better than attack-minded defenders per se. If not, then my apologies.

Offline KevinGage

  • Member
  • Posts: 13351
  • Location: Singing from under the floorboards
  • GM : 20.09.20
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2010, 05:18:16 PM »
I don't think there is any merit in the original post. By the indignation that someone hasn't been respectful to the chairman and a board director?

If that's aimed at me then cheers.

I did say the post started badly and got worse, so it wasn't just about the lack of respect to begin with. The post had no merit because it was largely balls. The opening salvo just set the tone.

You seem to confuse common courtesy with arse licking, cosying up and all the rest of it. I've often disagreed with the General in the past. I just tend to think that if a priest, doctor or someone high ranking in the military has earned a title it's basic manners to address them accordingly -unless they insist otherwise.  Familiarity breeds contempt to an extent and I guess him coming on here and other sites so often leads people to believe that they know him. I don't know him so I'm not going to chat to him like a mate.

Offline peter w

  • Member
  • Posts: 35469
  • Location: Istanbul
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2010, 05:24:01 PM »
It wasn't. But my post stemmed from someone endng their post to asking to show randy some respect "for f... sake". The word respect was used in the context that he was great and not just the same way anyone should anyone else some respect.



Offline KevinGage

  • Member
  • Posts: 13351
  • Location: Singing from under the floorboards
  • GM : 20.09.20
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2010, 05:26:59 PM »
OK apologies. As you were.

Offline Percy McCarthy

  • Member
  • Posts: 31939
  • Location: I'm hiding in my hole
    • King City Online
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2010, 08:49:04 PM »
I thought you were making a point that defence only defenders were better than attack-minded defenders per se. If not, then my apologies.

No problem. I'm a purist so I prefer attacking full-backs, but I can see the logic in picking players like Cuellar there. I'd rather see us win 4-3 than 1-0. Any win at all presently though.

Offline sfx412

  • Member
  • Posts: 2337
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2010, 10:15:42 PM »
the point is we are a less disciplined and organised side generally at the moment than we were under O'Neill.

The real point is Mon had 12 players who played week in week out Houllier has yet to find 5 who play regularly week in week out with the injury and illness situation.

Offline Ger Regan

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10208
  • Location: Dublin / Galway
  • GM : 25.11.2023
Re: Is this fair?
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2010, 10:18:42 PM »
The real point is Mon had 12 players who played week in week out Houllier has yet to find 5 who play regularly week in week out with the injury and illness situation.
I'm no O'Neill apologist, but you're talking shite here (surprise surprise).

We've clearly got a lot of injuries, but to say that they're all first team starters is obviously rubbish.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal