The wide men

[N'ZMAV]

I'd play Downing on the left. Albrighton on the right and Young up front.

[glasses]

For me, the key is Albrighton. When he is fit, there is balance, and the 451 works. Downing is in the right position on the left, and Young can play the off the striker role better than anyone else, judging by the games played this season. We need to go 442, like we did in the second half and get back to basics to get some points on the board.

[peter w]

If you have two wide players, like many have said, you're going to leave a central two exposed just because of sheer geography.

You see, this is a point I just don't get.  It was a debate we often had under MON as well.  I think it CAN work, but it needs two key elements:-
1.  A proper defense midfielder.
2.  All the other players to work very hard.

Think of the Man Utd treble winning side and the midfield of Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham.  OK, we haven't got playes of that ability, but when we played 4-4-2 under MON I think the problem wasn't wide, but central.  Pertov lacked energy to get around and was better in a 3.  Had we played NRC instead with Milner I think we would have seen a better balance.  If we look at our current squad, a central pairing of NRC and Bannan with two of Albrighton, Ash and Downing wide could be very effective in a 4-4-2.

To me this is a bit of an anathema - the 'defensive' midfielder. A midfielder is a midfielder so they should be able to sit and get forward as and when required. The players have always done the job - suchas des bremner - but its only int he Prem era that we believe that it has been newly created. Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder. Just a bugbear of mine. No disagreement as to the point.

[Mazrim]

Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder....

...the defensive midfielder.

[glasses]

If you have two wide players, like many have said, you're going to leave a central two exposed just because of sheer geography. If you want to play two wide players, you have to have three central players in some fashion - 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or whatever else you can think of - just because of literal space issues.

Monty, thats all very well and good when we have the players to play those systems, but unfortunately, some of our key players are missing through injury. I would also point out that I would rather watch us playing 442, as in the second half against Arsenal, and also the last 15 minutes against Blues, and have a go, rather than try to over complicate the tactis and watch dire football.

[Phil from the upper holte]

No problem with the widemen for me either, my problem is with the so called senior players!

Carew, Friedel, Young L, Warnock, Collins & Dunne

I don't think the two in bold have done all that much wrong this season!

I'd blame Friedel for two goals saturday and both at Blackburn, Its not a whole season but the errors are creeping into his game same for Collins

[peter w]

Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder....

...the defensive midfielder.

Not such a thing.

[Concrete John]

If you have two wide players, like many have said, you're going to leave a central two exposed just because of sheer geography.

You see, this is a point I just don't get.  It was a debate we often had under MON as well.  I think it CAN work, but it needs two key elements:-
1.  A proper defense midfielder.
2.  All the other players to work very hard.

Think of the Man Utd treble winning side and the midfield of Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham.  OK, we haven't got playes of that ability, but when we played 4-4-2 under MON I think the problem wasn't wide, but central.  Pertov lacked energy to get around and was better in a 3.  Had we played NRC instead with Milner I think we would have seen a better balance.  If we look at our current squad, a central pairing of NRC and Bannan with two of Albrighton, Ash and Downing wide could be very effective in a 4-4-2.

To me this is a bit of an anathema - the 'defensive' midfielder. A midfielder is a midfielder so they should be able to sit and get forward as and when required. The players have always done the job - suchas des bremner - but its only int he Prem era that we believe that it has been newly created. Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder. Just a bugbear of mine. No disagreement as to the point.

I know what you mean, but taking the Man Utd example I used Keane was a different player at Forest and took turns getting forward when playing with Ince.  It was when Scholes came in that he became the 'defensive midfielder' I refer to him as.  But then if you look at NRC, he's failings are the attacking side of a game, so you have a point.

An all rounder in geat, but player that give you both excellent defensive and offensive qualities are few and far between and generally out of our price range.  So we need to concentrate on the defensive qualities as that's where we are lacking in the midfield right now.

[Mister E]

Albrighton's presence means that Downing can play on the left where he's most effective. Ashley seems to prefer the left hand side, 'cos he likes cutting in.
As "glasses" said above, we're missing the boy 'brighton most of all right now.

[Risso]

No problem with the widemen for me either, my problem is with the so called senior players!

Carew, Friedel, Young L, Warnock, Collins & Dunne

I don't think the two in bold have done all that much wrong this season!

I'd blame Friedel for two goals saturday and both at Blackburn, Its not a whole season but the errors are creeping into his game same for Collins

Friedel hasn't been impressive for a while now, and attacking players seemingly find it all too easy to get Collins to commit himself, then leave him stranded and out of position.  Friedel, Dunne and Collins should be the bedrock of our side at the moment, but instead they're the weak link.

[N'ZMAV]

I think L. Young & Warnock are poor as of late. As well as Dunne.

[Mazrim]

Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder....

...the defensive midfielder.

Not such a thing.

Yes, there is.
A player who plays in the midfield whose duties are almost exclusively devoted towards but not strictly limited to: defending. They may also be screening midfielders that dictate play from a defensive or withdrawn position. Otherwise known as a deep lying playmaker or "quarterback".

See also: Makelele, Mikel, Mascherano, Gago, Reo Coker, Toulalan, M'Vila, Essien, Palacios, Diarra, Huddlestone, Vieira, Souness, Redondo, Mathaus, Rijkaard, van Bommel, Veron, Gattuso, Deschamps, Dunga, ...etc.

[Concrete John]

Friedel hasn't been impressive for a while now, and attacking players seemingly find it all too easy to get Collins to commit himself, then leave him stranded and out of position.  Friedel, Dunne and Collins should be the bedrock of our side at the moment, but instead they're the weak link.

Friedel's form is pretty much an accademic argument right now as he's got very little time left on his contract and needs replacing due to age.  Maybe he has slowed down this season, but I think he's been better than the defense in front of him.  Dunne has been poor and needs to sort himself out.  Yet when it comes to Collins I think he's been our best defender so far this season.

[Risso]

Friedel hasn't been impressive for a while now, and attacking players seemingly find it all too easy to get Collins to commit himself, then leave him stranded and out of position.  Friedel, Dunne and Collins should be the bedrock of our side at the moment, but instead they're the weak link.

Friedel's form is pretty much an accademic argument right now as he's got very little time left on his contract and needs replacing due to age.  Maybe he has slowed down this season, but I think he's been better than the defense in front of him.  Dunne has been poor and needs to sort himself out.  Yet when it comes to Collins I think he's been our best defender so far this season.

Collins does lots of good things, but too many times he comes thundering out, only to make a hash of things which then leaves Dunne trying to shift his carcass at pace back to cover.  Warnock's even worse.

[peter w]

Of course certain midfielders have strengths and weaknesses in different areas - the creative midfielder, the tackling midfilder....

...the defensive midfielder.

Not such a thing.

Yes, there is.
A player who plays in the midfield whose duties are almost exclusively devoted towards but not strictly limited to: defending. They may also be screening midfielders that dictate play from a defensive or withdrawn position. Otherwise known as a deep lying playmaker or "quarterback".

See also: Makelele, Mikel, Mascherano, Gago, Reo Coker, Toulalan, M'Vila, Essien, Palacios, Diarra, Huddlestone, Vieira, Souness, Redondo, Mathaus, Rijkaard, van Bommel, Veron, Gattuso, Deschamps, Dunga, ...etc.

Ah, players of yore. Shows how you clearly missed the point. Yes, there have been players that have done the job throughout history - you've also missed the 'water'carrier' Deschamps. The point is that the term 'defensive-midfielder' has only come into vogue in the Prem years. The players, and the job, have always been there. Midfielders aren't expected to do just one thing - defend, attack, create --but all of them. That's why they are midfielders. its just that some have particular strengths in particual areas.