Another standing debate

[dave.woodhall]

I don't want to go down the nostalgia or usual stand up/sit down argument roads, but I'd like opinions on something I've been thinking about.

Given the way football's gone since 1994, would the Holte End as it was have been doomed anyway? Or if it had stayed, how would things have been different? I can't see half of that crowd on Saturday, or any other time for that matter, standing up.

[barrysleftfoot]

  Its about choice, and being treated as an adult dave.

  Now i want to sit, preferably on the half way line.When i was younger i wanted to stand.If i was taking my kids i would want to stand behind the goal.Are we less civilised than the Germans?

  Things happened in th 70s and 80s that were unacceptable, changes have been implemented, and those things would probably not happen again.We learn fron plane crashes, but don't stop air travel.

  Time to bring terraces.

[sheldon nose]

  Its about choice, and being treated as an adult dave.

  Now i want to sit, preferably on the half way line.When i was younger i wanted to stand.If i was taking my kids i would want to stand behind the goal.Are we less civilised than the Germans?

  Things happened in th 70s and 80s that were unacceptable, changes have been implemented, and those things would probably not happen again.We learn fron plane crashes, but don't stop air travel.

  Time to bring terraces.

To right as well....is anyone actually trying to do anything postive in bringing back the terraces....

[Captain Trips]

Used to stand in the Holte, a treat was a seat once in a while. Now I am older I want that the other way around, sit most of the time but stand and sing as i used to :-) The atmosphere at Villa Park does not compare to the 70's/80's and a large part of that is that down to seating. Remember the days of standing when the ground was virtually full by 2.30 and the noise from the Holte was fantastic? Now everyone rushes to there seats in the last 10 mins.

[Brigada1874]

We all know why all seater stadia were introduced and at the time nobody could really argue with the decision. After seeing how safe and successful the areas in German grounds are it is completely feasible that we could return to terraces. Problem is English football doest want it! The clubs and Sky have their product exactly how they want it and it, customers paying the highest prices in Europe to watch the best league in the world (copyright SkySports).

Even if we can't go back to terraces why cant we have sections where fans can stand at their seat, then fans who want to stand all game can do so and those who want to sit all game can do so without having their view interrupted.

[maidstonevillain]

I don't want to go down the nostalgia or usual stand up/sit down argument roads, but I'd like opinions on something I've been thinking about.

Given the way football's gone since 1994, would the Holte End as it was have been doomed anyway? Or if it had stayed, how would things have been different? I can't see half of that crowd on Saturday, or any other time for that matter, standing up.

Those in the Holte End who look like they would not stand would probably go back to the other stands, and the "standers" in the rest of the ground would migrate back to the Holte. Providing of course the Holte End had the cheapest ticket prices, which is not the case now. Does that make sense.

[D.boy]

I grew up watching from the Holte End terrace and would love to have the choice to go back to standing again.
Times have changed and I think it's about time some form of terracing was brought back. The atmosphere would increase tenfold. The Germans and other countries manage terracing so why can't we. Imagine if the lower Holte and North stand were terracing. Cater for everyone and increase capacity as well.

If the Holte was still a terrace I think it would have survived and been popular with the fans for the simple reason that fans in my age group late 30's-early 40's would have taken their kids on the Holte and those that wanted to sing etc would always go there.

[rjp]

I'd love it if a standing area was reintroduced.  One major problem with all seater stadia for me is that it makes it so difficult to sit/stand near the people you want to.  On the odd occasion, I have family/friends come along and it's always a pain trying to get seats near mine.  When I was a nipper I'd meet mates on the old Holte that I only ever saw there.  I've lost touch with them all since it went all-seater.  It's the flexibility as much as the atmosphere that I miss.

[pedro25]

They have it at some Rugby grounds, like Welford Rd, and it works great.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Most of the Holte stands anyway!

I can see the council closing half of it one day, I really can.

I used to get letters about it all the time.

I used to love standing at the back of the Holte but I'm not sure i could these days, I used to miss so many goals as I was short, was ok when attacking north stand but 2nd half I missed so many goals, was fun though

[newtonsballs]

We played Notts County in the League Cup some years ago - we had tickets for the 'away end' with no allocation to any particular seat - you just sat where ever you wanted to. The Club  could do that to the Holte and the lower North Stand. Next step could be standing in those stands, if you wish.

[D.boy]

Which is why have terracing at the lower Holte only then everyone catered for.

[KevinGage]

I don't want to go down the nostalgia or usual stand up/sit down argument roads, but I'd like opinions on something I've been thinking about.

Given the way football's gone since 1994, would the Holte End as it was have been doomed anyway? Or if it had stayed, how would things have been different? I can't see half of that crowd on Saturday, or any other time for that matter, standing up.

The Holte was always a class apart as an end terrace and that's just not my claret tinted specs. Many neutrals I've spoken to over the years who attended FA Cup semis would say similar.

If I've understood the question you're looking for a specific would the Holte as was be capable of meeting the challenges of today, rather than a 'standing yay or nay' type debate.

I think it would have met the challenges of the current game quite easily. It's safety record was pretty close to impeccable and it pretty much met any new conditions laid down even before the various Safety Acts were passed.

The trade off for that would be that facilities would perhaps not be so lavish as they are in the concourses now. But providing I could buy a beer and have enough space to drink it I could live with that. The game is 90 minutes of your life, pre game and half time about 20/30 minutes combined. Plenty of time to visit spacious swank bars, coffee shops and eateries after that.

Undeniably though the expectations of football fans have changed and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I personally would be quite happy to have a single tier imposing Holte End if the trade off was not having the same level of creature comforts at half time and full time. I accept I might be in the minority on that one.

As for those standing on Saturday (do you mean in all parts of the ground) as to whether they would do so if there was still one designated area to do so I'm not sure. For some it's a form of rebellion I guess, sticking it to the man. Having it approved would probably kill most of the fun.

[The Situation]

Have a safe standing part of the ground like the Germans do - I think it's a really good idea but of course the health and safety council will deny that of course. What will the council do when there is screaming 12 year old girls who are standing up when Take That come to Villa Park?

[darren woolley]

My early years of watching us were standing in the Holte End so i often miss the standing there, now when i take my seat i think to myself i wish it was standing because sitting is not as comfortable in my view as standing.