Nearly men again

[dave.woodhall]

My point is if the manager says that 6th to 12th is ok then the players can achieve that and think they have done a good job, we can walk away from a defeat at sunderland and be 10th and think its ok, the one thing i know about leadership is the idea that you dont set targets that are easy to achieve

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

[hawkeye]

My point is if the manager says that 6th to 12th is ok then the players can achieve that and think they have done a good job, we can walk away from a defeat at sunderland and be 10th and think its ok, the one thing i know about leadership is the idea that you dont set targets that are easy to achieve

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

[KevinGage]

During my lifetime there have been at least four occasions when we could have really pushed on and cemented ourselves as one of the elite.

The first (and best opportunity of all) was post 1982, when we had a EC winning starting XI  with the likes of Brian McClair and Mark Walters in the youth team. There was an interview with Allan Evans not so long back where he said the biggest regret many of the senior pros had from that era is that we didn't push on, that if that side hadn't been broken up so quickly we could have gone on to dominate for years with the talent breaking through. Nevermind just being contenders.

After that we had GT's 89/90 side with Cowans, McGrath, Platt and Daley, BFR's side of 1992/93 and Brian Little's side mid 90's.  There were other occasions too, not so much opportunities to be title contenders but periods that offered hope; the back end of the 90's with JG, mid noughties with DOL and of course 2008/09 with MON.

Now we have to contend with stupid cows like Gabby Logan patronising us after a good performance: "Aston Villa have shown how to play against the big clubs"  the old sage wisely offered...after playing Tottenham.

Like it or not that's the perception out there. As recently as 1996 we were on about par with Arsenal for trophies won. Even now, despite their successful period of 98-2005 under Wenger - Invincibles et al- we're still only* six trophies off.  But with each passing year that we don't compete it gets easier to dismiss us. Doesn't help when you have a manager saying our status in the game whenever he thinks of us is roughly 7th-12th.

Personally I don't even indulge in flights of fantasy about CL anymore. For one thing, I think that competition is deeply flawed and for another I just don't see it as achievable anytime soon. Probably for the size of club that we are it should be a goal, a vaguely realistic target. But It would take an extraordinary set of circumstances to see us pull it off in the near future.

I'd have just been happy with a stint in the Europa League and some big European nights back at VP. There are some big sides in it again this year Atletico Madrid, Sporting Lisbon, Dynamo Kiev, PSV, Zenit, Juventus and so on.

To treat it with the disdain we have in the past few years is an opportunity missed in my book. It provides a stage to enhance our reputation and give our players crucial experience. We might only appreciate it's importance when we're not even in a position to qualify for that via the league.

[dave.woodhall]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
[/quote]

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.

[hawkeye]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
[/quote] Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point

[olaftab]

Well as they say it's better to travel than get there...

[dave.woodhall]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.

Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
[/quote]

I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?

[hilts_coolerking]

I'm with Dave on this one.  Houllier has said that's what he believes we are now but surely his ambition is to raise that in the time he's here.

[hawkeye]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.

Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point

I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?
[/quote]By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else

[dave.woodhall]

The way I see it is that we finished sixth last season, and it was going to be hard to improve on that anyway. Throw in you know-who's departure, the subsequent lack of new arrivals and Milner leaving, and you're left with a situation where seventh or eighth will be as comparable an achievement. That's not settling for mediocrity, it's a realistic assessment. 

[dave.woodhall]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.

Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point

I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?

By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else
[/quote]

He said that we had been a that phrase club. He also said that he was looking to improve on it. Do you not think anyone is allowed to disagree with you? 

[hawkeye]

I'm with Dave on this one.  Houllier has said that's what he believes we are now but surely his ambition is to raise that in the time he's here.

well i have not heard him say that, and why keep repeating the same comment, its hardly inspiring is it?
As you know I was one of MONs bigest critics, i wanted him gone a long time ago, I just dont understand why GH at every interview says we are a 6th to 12th club

[dave.woodhall]

That quote in full:

"It's a club that according to me has belonged between seventh and 12th place in the Premier League.

But, above all, it's a historic club which has won the European Cup. It's a club which has got good infrastructure and a fine team which is after one thing - to improve year on year."

[hawkeye]

Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.

no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic

No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.

Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point

I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?

By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else

He said that we had been a that phrase club. He also said that he was looking to improve on it. Do you not think anyone is allowed to disagree with you? 
[/quote]no i object to the sugestion that i am making stuff up, he keeps repeating that we are a 6th to 12th club sometimes he says 13th, i dont understand why he keeps saying this, it sounds like a cop out to me and gives the players an excuse

[dave.woodhall]

Where does he "keep saying it"?