New Stadiums, Why ?

[Chico Hamilton III]

If you think Highbury is better than the Emirates, your quite mad

I thought Highbury was far better than the Emirates. Still do.

I can't think of a new ground that is actually better than the old one it replaced.

Bigger, maybe, but not better

[D.boy]

Stadiums like The Emirates/Wembley etc may be more modern but they have no soul. The biggest thing they lack is atmosphere.

[JJ-AV]

I hope we don't expand Villa Park if we can't fill it.

[FatSam]

I wrote that.

Bollocks to the yawn-o-dromes. English football ground = four individual stands.

I want to see the M6, i want to be able to see the greenery of the park between the Holte and Trinity when we're on the telly.

For me, distinctiveness is the most important aspect - what makes your ground different from someone else's. To some extent it is true that the 'stand' culture is more likely to lead to distinctive football grounds, as stands get developed individually over time, meaning that no two grounds are the same. However it doesn't always happen like this, take for example Ewood Park or the DW Stadium. At Villa Park we have lost some of our distinctiveness in recent years as all four stands have been redeveloped over a relatively short period of time. Distinctiveness also comes from being of its place, with brownfield rather than greenfield sites, being most likely to have site specific factors (such as the proximity of buildings/ rivers etc.) that influence the nature of development.

I have said before on previous threads that the single most distinctive and important feature of Villa Park for me is the way in which the Trinity Rd cuts into the corner of the ground coming close to the pitch by the corner flag. This lead to an elegant oblique gable wall to the old Trinity Rd stand, and the distinctive asymmetrical image of the Holte End when seen from the opposite end of the ground. I would not want to see this lost entirely.

I think some of the new American stadiums are good models to look at in terms of keeping a stadium's individual character.

My feeling is that you can't just invent distinctiveness, and some of the new baseball stadia that are designed to look old, could be seen as superficial baseball theme parks i.e. devoted to a nostalgic idea of the experience of watching baseball. Obviously the shape of a baseball field, and the concentration of activity in one area leads to different kinds of stadia. However, this theme park idea seems to me to be wrapped-up in sport as a commodity for customers rather than fans. I certainly don't want some sugar-coated experience of watching football - I want it to feel real and relevant. This means being grounded in the present, but still being part of the Aston Villa continuum. The aspects of our club that we are often most proud of are its pioneering achievements, and its this pioneering spirit that I would like to see us continuing.

I suspect Arsenal fans feel more proud of the Emirates, than perhaps Southampton or Leicester fans do of their similarly recent new stadia, because it has set a new benchmark which other clubs are forced to strive for. There was probably some satisfaction for them seeing Tottenham's plans for WHL start to resemble the Emirates so closely. In fact its only the late inclusion of a single tier kop that distinguishes between them to most observers.

[FatSam]

To illustrate the point, here is Mainz's new ground. Four individual stands, but all identical and located in a field outside of town:

[cdward]

VP just requires some attention, a new North Stand and the corners 'filled in'

I remember reading an article in Heroes & Villains written by someone who was dead against filling in the corners at Villa Park.

I wrote that.

Bollocks to the yawn-o-dromes. English football ground = four individual stands.

I want to see the M6, i want to be able to see the greenery of the park between the Holte and Trinity when we're on the telly.

At first i thought why do you want to see the M6 or Aston Park, but then waving goodbye to the knuckledraggers skulking away after the fifth goal goes in certainly does have a sense of occasion about it that a Wembley bowl could never replicate.
Also i love watching lower division teams on the TV, FA cup 3rd round games and similar, and seeing fans up trees or standing on hills outside the stadium trying to catch a glimpse of the game for free, you never see that in these new stadiums.

[DB]

If you think Highbury is better than the Emirates, your quite mad

I thought Highbury was far better than the Emirates. Still do.

I can't think of a new ground that is actually better than the old one it replaced.

I was going on my experience at Highbury, I've been 5 times 3 of those in that crappy stand to basically not be able to see. Hundreds of people must have been the same.

Bigger, maybe, but not better

I was going on my experience at Highbury, I've been 5 times 3 of those in that crappy stand to basically not be able to see. Hundreds of people must have been the same. If you speak to Arsenal fans, how many would like to go back to Highbury? Not many I'm willing to bet.

[pauliewalnuts]

Also i love watching lower division teams on the TV, FA cup 3rd round games and similar, and seeing fans up trees or standing on hills outside the stadium trying to catch a glimpse of the game for free, you never see that in these new stadiums.

There's a fantastic photo in that Terry Weir book taken from the park in 1981 during our match against Ipswich of locked out fans sat down, watching the game through the gap between the Holte and Trinity.

Happy days.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I was going on my experience at Highbury,

So was I. And my experience of the Emirates.

And, apart from a few Johnny Come lately Arsenal soccer fans, the majority of Arsenal fans I speak to would go back to Highbury tomorrow, finances permitting.

[Blackcountry Villa]

The atmosphere would be ten times better if the corners of VP were filled in. The away fans can barely hear the Holte now because all the noise is lost out of the sides.

[Dante Lavelli]

Has any new stadium managed to create a really good atmosphere?

I recall when the Millennium Stadium was built in cardiff that it was designed to keep the noise inside the stadium but have no idea whether that was just spin from the design team or whether it actually worked.

Anyone been there?

As an aside, I think it is very difficult for a new stadium to be instantly distinctive and have character as the character often is not just the design and physical shape but more so the shared memories of nights like Tranmere and Inter Milan (in my time).  No architect can design that...

Whoever asked, HOK Sports are a popular choice of architect for stadiums.
http://www.hok.com/

[cdward]

New stadia such as Wembley, the Ricoh, etc are designed to host music concerts as well, so they are designed to acoustically "bounce" the noise away, otherwise the music bouncing around inside the stadium sounds awful if you are listening to music but great for football chants.

[TimTheVillain]

The atmosphere would be ten times better if the corners of VP were filled in. The away fans can barely hear the Holte now because all the noise is lost out of the sides.

Agree 100%.

To get the best atmosphere possible at VP, the corners have to be filled in.

It's no wonder we have the 'boring' and 'Villa Villa Villa scream' reputations with the current VP.

[Dave Cooper please]

So if we filled the corners in the Holte End would suddenly come up with a whole catalogue of witty and erudite chants?

[TimTheVillain]

So if we filled the corners in the Holte End would suddenly come up with a whole catalogue of witty and erudite chants?

Loads.

Erudite chants galore in fact.