Brian Little interview on TS.

[peter w]

Agree with everything but the last point. Its all about money. Name the last club without a lot of it won the Champions League, or even the Premiership?

[KevinGage]

That's probably where a fair degree of the frustration emanated from when it came to MON.

Not so much that we expected 4th as of right, rather that we knew we had a window of opportunity back in 2009 that realistically might not come around again. It's so bloody hard to crack it, when you get the chance you have to seize it.

An eight point gap going into early March might (might) have been too much of a psychological blow for Arsenal to bounce back from. We'll never know, but the decisions taken around that period -signing Heskey, Moscow and so forth- and the result v Stoke framed our outlook and thinking. Were we ever good enough? Did we really want it?

And so on.

[Toronto Villa]

The aim I would have thought would be to somehow replicate what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal. Or at least use that model.

Of the formerly established top 4 he's spent his money most wisely recruiting some very good players coupled with outstanding prospects. Though Wenger hasn't won a trophy in the past few years his teams are attractive to watch and always competitive. They are perennially in the top 4 which demonstrates a shrewdness that I hope Houllier can bring to the club. Given the money being doshed out by others Wenger has worked miracles spending relative to turnover. It's not easy but it can be done.

[peter w]

Thing is, that window still hasn't closed, it has one more year left of it, until Liverpool find a rich sheikh and man City get it right. This is the last year when we may as well have thrown money at it, nit stupid amounts - but enough to get those minimum 3 players that we needed to push us on.

no need to choose not to because if we had have finished 5th downwards after spending money that window will have closed and we can then take stock of where the club is going.

[KevinGage]

Agree with everything but the last point. Its all about money. Name the last club without a lot of it won the Champions League, or even the Premiership?

Villareal have got to the latter stages of the CL.

They have finance, but aren't traditionally one of the powerhouses in Spain and get very small gates.

Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim aren't giants of the German game but have made significant strides in recent years. Again, yes, part of that progress is because of finance. But there are plenty more wealthy clubs in Germany, clubs traditionally much stronger.

So good coaching, good management and team chemistry does have a role to play.

Finance is important -and had we managed it in 2009/09 many would have pointed to the fact that we were one of the biggest spenders in Europe that year. But it isn't the be all and end all.

[peter w]

The aim I would have thought would be to somehow replicate what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal. Or at least use that model.

Of the formerly established top 4 he's spent his money most wisely recruiting some very good players coupled with outstanding prospects. Though Wenger hasn't won a trophy in the past few years his teams are attractive to watch and always competitive. They are perennially in the top 4 which demonstrates a shrewdness that I hope Houllier can bring to the club. Given the money being doshed out by others Wenger has worked miracles spending relative to turnover. It's not easy but it can be done.

the problem here is that Wenger, like Ferguson, will have their legacies formulated by being at the right place at the right time. The latter because Man U had a great team of kids coming through many of whom went on to play international football, whilst Wenger came to Arsenal at the right time, when france, and French footballers, were the best, and knew which undervalued players to put together to make a great team.

The management of both made it work, but they will never replicate that again.

[KevinGage]

The aim I would have thought would be to somehow replicate what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal. Or at least use that model.

Of the formerly established top 4 he's spent his money most wisely recruiting some very good players coupled with outstanding prospects. Though Wenger hasn't won a trophy in the past few years his teams are attractive to watch and always competitive. They are perennially in the top 4 which demonstrates a shrewdness that I hope Houllier can bring to the club. Given the money being doshed out by others Wenger has worked miracles spending relative to turnover. It's not easy but it can be done.

I think very few clubs could get away with what Wenger has managed there, it's pretty unique.

The London location helps too, when it comes to attracting promising young players from across the globe. Would a young Fabregas or Vela want to settle in Birmingham? Unlikely.

A model we could more closely follow is that of the other North London lot. Casting the net wide, not afraid to take a punt on Championship players and trading at profit. Again the level of foreign player they can attract might be helped by the London factor, but as an overall model there might be more to draw from than the Arsenal one.

[Toronto Villa]

The aim I would have thought would be to somehow replicate what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal. Or at least use that model.

Of the formerly established top 4 he's spent his money most wisely recruiting some very good players coupled with outstanding prospects. Though Wenger hasn't won a trophy in the past few years his teams are attractive to watch and always competitive. They are perennially in the top 4 which demonstrates a shrewdness that I hope Houllier can bring to the club. Given the money being doshed out by others Wenger has worked miracles spending relative to turnover. It's not easy but it can be done.

the problem here is that Wenger, like Ferguson, will have their legacies formulated by being at the right place at the right time. The latter because Man U had a great team of kids coming through many of whom went on to play international football, whilst Wenger came to Arsenal at the right time, when france, and French footballers, were the best, and knew which undervalued players to put together to make a great team.

The management of both made it work, but they will never replicate that again.

I wasn't really pointing to Wenger's intial years. More about how he competes today. You're right. He had a tremendous base from which to work from but once he sold or discarded those players, he still maintained a constant stream of players coming through a consistent system. He's also added experienced internationals at various times to that mix. He hasn't got it right all the time and when you don't have the money you can't afford to make too many mistakes. But his record of staying competitive after the period you are referring to stands up with anyone.

I'd certainly discount Ferguson from this. Yes, that batch of kids was sensational, but since then he has invested very heavily in proven talent and costly gambles, some of which haven't paid off at all. Most of his youth team never make it because of the existing first team talent currently available to him, and end up being sold off to lower PL or Championship sides.

[Toronto Villa]

The aim I would have thought would be to somehow replicate what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal. Or at least use that model.

Of the formerly established top 4 he's spent his money most wisely recruiting some very good players coupled with outstanding prospects. Though Wenger hasn't won a trophy in the past few years his teams are attractive to watch and always competitive. They are perennially in the top 4 which demonstrates a shrewdness that I hope Houllier can bring to the club. Given the money being doshed out by others Wenger has worked miracles spending relative to turnover. It's not easy but it can be done.

I think very few clubs could get away with what Wenger has managed there, it's pretty unique.

The London location helps too, when it comes to attracting promising young players from across the globe. Would a young Fabregas or Vela want to settle in Birmingham? Unlikely.

A model we could more closely follow is that of the other North London lot. Casting the net wide, not afraid to take a punt on Championship players and trading at profit. Again the level of foreign player they can attract might be helped by the London factor, but as an overall model there might be more to draw from than the Arsenal one.

See I don't buy into the London argument as much when it comes to prospects from across Europe or other parts of the world. I think a chance to play in the PL at a big club is enticing enough for most. Even proven pros, given the right environment and offer can be acquired. Steve Bruce has convinced a number of very good players to come to Wigan and Sunderland. Middlesborough for a while had Juninho, Mendietta, Yakubu and Ravinelli. None of those are the most exciting places on the earth. We've just got to have a very good scouting system in various parts of the world. I would hope Houiller's experience in various football circles means he would get tipped off once in a while to the next big thing. One can hope anyway.

[villa `cross the mersey]

For me the saddest thing about all of this is that  clubs like Villa aspire to get 4th place - not the title. I appreciate that the money does go a long way to deciding the top places however I agree with KevinGage that with astute coaching and a correct blend of hungry ambitious players (young and experienced) there is no reason a club cannot win the league.
Again the preference to finish 4th rather than win one of the cups is a strange concept to me.
Little and BFR had their failings and hence their departure,s however they did bring silverware to VP and made a few of us happy doing so.

[maidstonevillain]

Agree with everything but the last point. Its all about money. Name the last club without a lot of it won the Champions League, or even the Premiership?

Villareal have got to the latter stages of the CL.

They have finance, but aren't traditionally one of the powerhouses in Spain and get very small gates.

Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim aren't giants of the German game but have made significant strides in recent years. Again, yes, part of that progress is because of finance. But there are plenty more wealthy clubs in Germany, clubs traditionally much stronger.

So good coaching, good management and team chemistry does have a role to play.

Finance is important -and had we managed it in 2009/09 many would have pointed to the fact that we were one of the biggest spenders in Europe that year. But it isn't the be all and end all.

As far as I aware, by Premiership standards, Porto were not wealthy. I stand to be corrected though.

[KevinGage]

See I don't buy into the London argument as much when it comes to prospects from across Europe or other parts of the world. I think a chance to play in the PL at a big club is enticing enough for most. Even proven pros, given the right environment and offer can be acquired. Steve Bruce has convinced a number of very good players to come to Wigan and Sunderland. Middlesborough for a while had Juninho, Mendietta, Yakubu and Ravinelli. None of those are the most exciting places on the earth. We've just got to have a very good scouting system in various parts of the world. I would hope Houiller's experience in various football circles means he would get tipped off once in a while to the next big thing. One can hope anyway.

I think it's definitely a factor.

You're right in so far as other clubs in even less glamorous location than ours have been able to procure foreign talent. It's not that we wouldn't be able to get any, just that London sides have an inbuilt advantage.

Someone like Vela can probably find within very easy travelling distance food he gets from home and the support of various Mexican/ Latin American communities down that way. Doesn't sound like the most important things when it comes to a career, but pretty crucial in swaying a young player starting out.

[sfx412]

How many times did Gregory 'regularly' finish in the top five?

Not many but he had a win ratio of 43% , how many pre and post managers can boast that ?

[KevinGage]

For me the saddest thing about all of this is that  clubs like Villa aspire to get 4th place - not the title. I appreciate that the money does go a long way to deciding the top places however I agree with KevinGage that with astute coaching and a correct blend of hungry ambitious players (young and experienced) there is no reason a club cannot win the league.
Again the preference to finish 4th rather than win one of the cups is a strange concept to me.
Little and BFR had their failings and hence their departure,s however they did bring silverware to VP and made a few of us happy doing so.

I was thinking about this the other day and you're right, to an extent.

It does seem a bit shit to set top 4 as some kind of pinnacle, when I can remember not too long back genuine title challenges. If you're not in it to win it, what's the point?

But for me top 4 would be a crucial stage in our development.

Top 4 = better standard of opposition = higher profile = more finance = better players.

So that eventually, with that better standard of player and deeper level of resources available we'd be able to -in theory at least- sustain a title challenge.

[ChrissyPrice]

Agree with everything but the last point. Its all about money. Name the last club without a lot of it won the Champions League, or even the Premiership?

Villareal have got to the latter stages of the CL.

They have finance, but aren't traditionally one of the powerhouses in Spain and get very small gates.

Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim aren't giants of the German game but have made significant strides in recent years. Again, yes, part of that progress is because of finance. But there are plenty more wealthy clubs in Germany, clubs traditionally much stronger.

So good coaching, good management and team chemistry does have a role to play.

Finance is important -and had we managed it in 2009/09 many would have pointed to the fact that we were one of the biggest spenders in Europe that year. But it isn't the be all and end all.

As far as I aware, by Premiership standards, Porto were not wealthy. I stand to be corrected though.

I think Porto's scouting system, particularly but not exclusively in South America, must have been about the best around. Bring them in and sell them on for a lot more.