The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[old man villa fan]

I posted this yesterday on another thread related to the defeat on Sunday.

The legacy of Martin O'Neill's team - a team without a spine when things start to go wrong.

If we are going to blood young players, you need a very strong player in the middle to help them out when things get tough.  Petrov is not that player, Reo Coker is not that player, Sidwell is not that player, Barry was not that player.  So after 4 years of MON, where is that player in our team.  This in my opinion was the major failing of our previous manager.

We are very good at times going forward and show that we can play football when things go for us.  Being good on the counter attack usually shows that you are unable to dominate the opposition.  So, why after 4 years are we still seen as a counter attacking team if we had ambitions of top 4.

Somebody else raised the fact that we have no attacking options.  The fact is, other than MON's 1st team, what other options did we have all over the pitch.  This can only be viewed as an average return on the money he spent.  I just think he ran out of ideas of how to progress once he had reached 6th place and ended up strenghtening one part of the team (the defence) at the expense of other parts of the team and at the same time still spending heavily.

Don't get me wrong, he was just the manager we needed at the time but his final 6 months started to show that we were not going to progress unless he changed his ways.

I do not know what sort of relationship he had with his two coaches but it never seemed as though he was getting much help from them on how to change things around.  Or was it that he never listened anyway, I don't know.

[Chris Smith]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

I know that it isn't going to happen, however, it looks like we're going to make a profit in this transfer window. You said it yourself that perhaps they're settling for mid table this season - if that's the case then be honest with us so that we can get used to Ashley and Gabby moving on in the near future.

[mozza]

O'Neill will be remembered by me by association with the kiddy story 'The King Clothes'

For those under the age of half a century it was about a King who everyone adored but were
brainwashed into saying had fantastic clothes,  but the truth of the matter was he was in the buff-

One day a stranger came into his kingdom and told it as it was - the gradually everyone saw him
for what he was -

Similarly it appeared that supporters and media alike thought O'Neill was the 'messiah'  and
could do no wrong, but gradually in time he made mistakes that he wouldn't admit to or learn from
and supporters began to question him -

I don't think that kiddy story is told anymore, it certainly isn't in any of the books I've bought
since my grand daughter was born 10 weeks ago -   
   

[Toronto Villa]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

I know that it isn't going to happen, however, it looks like we're going to make a profit in this transfer window. You said it yourself that perhaps they're settling for mid table this season - if that's the case then be honest with us so that we can get used to Ashley and Gabby moving on in the near future.

Chris, the last bit is hard to determine. Ok, so the chances of us blowing 30 mil in the next 7 days is slim. But if the managerial appointment is correct, and we consolidate our position this year, which would involve wisely investing in January, then why couldn't we provide Ash and Gabby the right environment to succeed? For me, above all is the managerial decision. Get a top manager in, and everything changes very quickly.

[Chris Smith]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

I know that it isn't going to happen, however, it looks like we're going to make a profit in this transfer window. You said it yourself that perhaps they're settling for mid table this season - if that's the case then be honest with us so that we can get used to Ashley and Gabby moving on in the near future.

Chris, the last bit is hard to determine. Ok, so the chances of us blowing 30 mil in the next 7 days is slim. But if the managerial appointment is correct, and we consolidate our position this year, which would involve wisely investing in January, then why couldn't we provide Ash and Gabby the right environment to succeed? For me, above all is the managerial decision. Get a top manager in, and everything changes very quickly.

I don't expect to see a top managerial appointment. I can't see those sort of people being attracted by trimming the wage bill. Like O'Neill they'll say that if the board have ambitions to get into the CL or even to try to win something then they'll expect money to be made available for transfers and the wages that come with it. Perhaps I am being unduly pessimistic but the mood music from Villa Park is far from encouraging.

[SoccerHQ]

His main pluses were getting us back in the big league like we were in the mid 90s e.g. regular
top 6 finishes, cup final appearences and also getting us some very good results home and away
to the top teams as when he took over we pretty much always rolled over to them. So in short
making us belive again we could compete and beat the elite.

However just like Little's years, there will always be a nagging sense of what if, particularly in the
league especially the opportunities we had in 08/09 and last season to finish top 4.

[Toronto Villa]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

I know that it isn't going to happen, however, it looks like we're going to make a profit in this transfer window. You said it yourself that perhaps they're settling for mid table this season - if that's the case then be honest with us so that we can get used to Ashley and Gabby moving on in the near future.

Chris, the last bit is hard to determine. Ok, so the chances of us blowing 30 mil in the next 7 days is slim. But if the managerial appointment is correct, and we consolidate our position this year, which would involve wisely investing in January, then why couldn't we provide Ash and Gabby the right environment to succeed? For me, above all is the managerial decision. Get a top manager in, and everything changes very quickly.

I don't expect to see a top managerial appointment. I can't see those sort of people being attracted by trimming the wage bill. Like O'Neill they'll say that if the board have ambitions to get into the CL or even to try to win something then they'll expect money to be made available for transfers and the wages that come with it. Perhaps I am being unduly pessimistic but the mood music from Villa Park is far from encouraging.

But there's a difference between NOT giving MON money until he has cut wages and attracting a new manager with money to spend while still having a mandate of reducing overall expenditure. Your absolutely right. What manager would come to Villa with the chat up line "Come manage us but we're not giving you anything to spend and you have to cut wages". Nobody, which is why they won't be using it.

[Chris Smith]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

I know that it isn't going to happen, however, it looks like we're going to make a profit in this transfer window. You said it yourself that perhaps they're settling for mid table this season - if that's the case then be honest with us so that we can get used to Ashley and Gabby moving on in the near future.

Chris, the last bit is hard to determine. Ok, so the chances of us blowing 30 mil in the next 7 days is slim. But if the managerial appointment is correct, and we consolidate our position this year, which would involve wisely investing in January, then why couldn't we provide Ash and Gabby the right environment to succeed? For me, above all is the managerial decision. Get a top manager in, and everything changes very quickly.

I don't expect to see a top managerial appointment. I can't see those sort of people being attracted by trimming the wage bill. Like O'Neill they'll say that if the board have ambitions to get into the CL or even to try to win something then they'll expect money to be made available for transfers and the wages that come with it. Perhaps I am being unduly pessimistic but the mood music from Villa Park is far from encouraging.

But there's a difference between NOT giving MON money until he has cut wages and attracting a new manager with money to spend while still having a mandate of reducing overall expenditure. Your absolutely right. What manager would come to Villa with the chat up line "Come manage us but we're not giving you anything to spend and you have to cut wages". Nobody, which is why they won't be using it.

I hope you're right and that I'm very wrong.

[Villa'Zawg]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

It's what Spurs did when they appointed Harry. It's what Man City are doing every summer. But I don't think we needed another £120m to maintain our forward momentum.

I would have had him tell Man City to feck off this summer and given the manager £10m plus whatever Faulkner manages to raise from selling some of the 6 players identified as potential sales.

[dave.woodhall]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

It's what Spurs did when they appointed Harry. It's what Man City are doing every summer. But I don't think we needed another £120m to maintain our forward momentum.

I would have had him tell Man City to feck off this summer and given the manager £10m plus whatever Faulkner manages to raise from selling some of the 6 players identified as potential sales.

Of course you would. It's all so easy when it's not your money and it's not your decisions.

[BILL DE VALL]

According to this our squad is worth £131m
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/de/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb_GB1.html

its in german but you can soon work it out
Everton's squad is worth more than ours-Fallaini is worth £17m!
Also all figures are debatable -you wouldn't sell Albrighton to what he is listed here!

But it is a 'guide' for all you budding cyber managers out there

Also you can search for a player and it will tell you who their agent is(for the journalistic types)

and lists all the players moves and for how much-settle all those arguements about what we paid and got for whoever

[Villa'Zawg]

However, I fear that the board have now thrown in the towel and that's as good as it is going to get.

Okay, so what more would you want them to do? Another £120 million?

It's what Spurs did when they appointed Harry. It's what Man City are doing every summer. But I don't think we needed another £120m to maintain our forward momentum.

I would have had him tell Man City to feck off this summer and given the manager £10m plus whatever Faulkner manages to raise from selling some of the 6 players identified as potential sales.

Of course you would. It's all so easy when it's not your money and it's not your decisions.

It's probably best not to pose those particular type of questions if you've already decided that Lerner's answer is the only valid one.

[dave.woodhall]

It's probably best not to pose those particular type of questions if you've already decided that Lerner's answer is the only valid one.

What are you on about now?

[Villa'Zawg]

It's probably best not to pose those particular type of questions if you've already decided that Lerner's answer is the only valid one.

What are you on about now?

If you are going to criticise my answer on the grounds it isn't my money and my decision, why bother asking "what more would you want them to do?"

What type of answer are you hoping for to that question?

[Villa'Zawg]

According to this our squad is worth £131m
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/de/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb_GB1.html

its in german but you can soon work it out
Everton's squad is worth more than ours-Fallaini is worth £17m!
Also all figures are debatable -you wouldn't sell Albrighton to what he is listed here!

But it is a 'guide' for all you budding cyber managers out there

Also you can search for a player and it will tell you who their agent is(for the journalistic types)

and lists all the players moves and for how much-settle all those arguements about what we paid and got for whoever

It's a cracking website and there's a British version button near the top right hand corner.