Quote from: luke95 on August 19, 2010, 10:26:58 AMBut saying were 5th when its very rare we finish 5th is giving the wrong impression & heightens expectations. The point is we've been in the Premier League every season since its inception, and not many other clubs can say that. I would say that, if anything, that table is a truer measure. For example, Newcastle's failure to be good enough to even be in the premier league for two years since its start is reflected in that table.
But saying were 5th when its very rare we finish 5th is giving the wrong impression & heightens expectations.
Quote from: luke95 on August 19, 2010, 09:59:02 AMQuote from: John M on August 19, 2010, 09:02:19 AMI think that table is a little misleading if we're taking it to be our 'average' position. The fact we've been in the PL every season since it's inception puts us right up there, but if A N Other side had been in every year and finished 11th every year, there average by this guage would probably be 8th or 9th. Given we've only ever had three PL finishes above 6th (2nd in 93, 4th in 96 and 5th in 97) and some awfully low ones aswell, I think if you added up all our finishing positions and divided by the number of PL seasons, we'd be nearer 8th. Which was the point i was trying to make the other day on another thread ..We havent been a top 5/6 club for the best part of 70/80 years,the past 3 years is probably the most consistant any living fan has seen us. Only if you're about 10.What about 1996 - 2000? 4 - 5 - 7 - 6 - 6 Since 1990, we've finished in the top six 10 times, and those 10 times we've finished 2nd twice, 4th and 5th once. I wonder why we bother getting so aereated about the media talking us down when our own fans are so keen to do it at any opportunity. I wonder how our record since 1990 compares against, say, Tottenham's, and whether their fans talk themselves down as much as we do?
Quote from: John M on August 19, 2010, 09:02:19 AMI think that table is a little misleading if we're taking it to be our 'average' position. The fact we've been in the PL every season since it's inception puts us right up there, but if A N Other side had been in every year and finished 11th every year, there average by this guage would probably be 8th or 9th. Given we've only ever had three PL finishes above 6th (2nd in 93, 4th in 96 and 5th in 97) and some awfully low ones aswell, I think if you added up all our finishing positions and divided by the number of PL seasons, we'd be nearer 8th. Which was the point i was trying to make the other day on another thread ..We havent been a top 5/6 club for the best part of 70/80 years,the past 3 years is probably the most consistant any living fan has seen us.
I think that table is a little misleading if we're taking it to be our 'average' position. The fact we've been in the PL every season since it's inception puts us right up there, but if A N Other side had been in every year and finished 11th every year, there average by this guage would probably be 8th or 9th. Given we've only ever had three PL finishes above 6th (2nd in 93, 4th in 96 and 5th in 97) and some awfully low ones aswell, I think if you added up all our finishing positions and divided by the number of PL seasons, we'd be nearer 8th.
At the end of the season we will judge how good or bad our season has been by looking at our final league postion & not how many points we have on the board. Well thats how i see it anyway .
Quote from: luke95 on August 19, 2010, 10:57:02 AMAt the end of the season we will judge how good or bad our season has been by looking at our final league postion & not how many points we have on the board. Well thats how i see it anyway . A fine and logical argument, which some will throw out in favour of their liking of of tactics and/or style of play, how much they rate the players and thinking manager x would have done better.I'm with you, though!
That's what I've been saying for the last three years when others have been trying to pretend that we've had three years of "progression". 6th place is 6th place.
Does this mean we have to give some credit to Doug?
It seems that it is only acceptable or even desirable to talk down our recent record.
Looking at the way this thread has developed I'm amazed at how determined some people are to talk the club down. Four clubs have a better record since the Premier League started. All of them have advantages we could only dream of. How about a bit of credit for those responsible??
Quote from: dave.woodhall on August 19, 2010, 08:51:23 PMLooking at the way this thread has developed I'm amazed at how determined some people are to talk the club down. Four clubs have a better record since the Premier League started. All of them have advantages we could only dream of. How about a bit of credit for those responsible?? Agreed. Trying watching the Villa with 12,000 in the ground losing week in week out in the old second division.The club run by old men with no business sense allowing the club to slowly slide towards bankruptcy. No talking down required in that situation.
Quote from: dave.woodhall on August 19, 2010, 08:51:23 PMLooking at the way this thread has developed I'm amazed at how determined some people are to talk the club down. Four clubs have a better record since the Premier League started. All of them have advantages we could only dream of. How about a bit of credit for those responsible?? Agreed. Trying watching the Villa with 12,000 in the ground losing week in week out in the old second division.The club run by old men with no business sense allowing the club to slowly slide towards bankruptcy. No talking down required in that situation. [/Which very soon lead Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 19, 2010, 10:07:58 PMQuote from: dave.woodhall on August 19, 2010, 08:51:23 PMLooking at the way this thread has developed I'm amazed at how determined some people are to talk the club down. Four clubs have a better record since the Premier League started. All of them have advantages we could only dream of. How about a bit of credit for those responsible?? Agreed. Trying watching the Villa with 12,000 in the ground losing week in week out in the old second division.The club run by old men with no business sense allowing the club to slowly slide towards bankruptcy. No talking down required in that situation. Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 19, 2010, 10:07:58 PMQuote from: dave.woodhall on August 19, 2010, 08:51:23 PMLooking at the way this thread has developed I'm amazed at how determined some people are to talk the club down. Four clubs have a better record since the Premier League started. All of them have advantages we could only dream of. How about a bit of credit for those responsible?? Agreed. Trying watching the Villa with 12,000 in the ground losing week in week out in the old second division.The club run by old men with no business sense allowing the club to slowly slide towards bankruptcy. No talking down required in that situation. Which very soon lead to watching in the old third division in front of 49000