Accounts, wages, turnover...

[nipper]

Was telling a mate today how high our wages to turnover ratio was and he couldn't work it out. Rightly he was saying that we don't pay particularly high wages (compared to other top end clubs), haven't got what you'd call a huge squad of players and that we are one of the bigger clubs with average attendances of around 40,000 so why aren't we making more money. The thing with the Villa is we still charge what i'd say is a fairly reasonable price for season tkts, still expensive i know, but compared to other clubs who are taking the piss with close on a grand for the season we are one of the cheapest going i think. Now if the club was to suddenly join these other clubs who we are trying to compete with and charge say double what we're paying now, then me, and probably thousands more won't be going that regular, so for the club it's a bit of a catch 22 situation.  I'd love to see 20 - 30m players down the Villa but if we were to go down that route, the only people i feel populating Villa Park would be the sort of new wave, Sky generation supporter who you find filling the like of WHL and the bridge. Not me.

[pauliewalnuts]

Was telling a mate today how high our wages to turnover ratio was and he couldn't work it out. Rightly he was saying that we don't pay particularly high wages (compared to other top end clubs), haven't got what you'd call a huge squad of players and that we are one of the bigger clubs with average attendances of around 40,000 so why aren't we making more money. The thing with the Villa is we still charge what i'd say is a fairly reasonable price for season tkts, still expensive i know, but compared to other clubs who are taking the piss with close on a grand for the season we are one of the cheapest going i think. Now if the club was to suddenly join these other clubs who we are trying to compete with and charge say double what we're paying now, then me, and probably thousands more won't be going that regular, so for the club it's a bit of a catch 22 situation.  I'd love to see 20 - 30m players down the Villa but if we were to go down that route, the only people i feel populating Villa Park would be the sort of new wave, Sky generation supporter who you find filling the like of WHL and the bridge. Not me.

Even if you ignore the percentage of turnover thing, though, our wage bill is far higher in absolute terms than those of Everton and Spurs **, so we're clearly not the average payers we think we are.


** +25 pages

[TimTheVillain]

RL didnt get where he is today without the abillity to pave the way for people to depart on amicable terms.

must admit I find it strange so few fans fail to appreciate that point

I find it strange that people think Randy is such a fantastic businessman and has this degree of foresight, yet he apparently didn't notice MON spending the club into oblivion.

You can't have it both ways surely.

I may be absolutely incorrrect here, but Randy made his millions when his Father sold MBNA.

Both he and his sister inherited c $1 billion each.

This doesn't mean that Randy is not a fantastic businessman,( chip off the old block etc)  but for sure, his Father was.

Randy does however surround himself with advisers ( unlike corner shop keepers) - so he is probably not a control freak as I see it.

[TheSandman]

Was telling a mate today how high our wages to turnover ratio was and he couldn't work it out. Rightly he was saying that we don't pay particularly high wages (compared to other top end clubs), haven't got what you'd call a huge squad of players and that we are one of the bigger clubs with average attendances of around 40,000 so why aren't we making more money. The thing with the Villa is we still charge what i'd say is a fairly reasonable price for season tkts, still expensive i know, but compared to other clubs who are taking the piss with close on a grand for the season we are one of the cheapest going i think. Now if the club was to suddenly join these other clubs who we are trying to compete with and charge say double what we're paying now, then me, and probably thousands more won't be going that regular, so for the club it's a bit of a catch 22 situation.  I'd love to see 20 - 30m players down the Villa but if we were to go down that route, the only people i feel populating Villa Park would be the sort of new wave, Sky generation supporter who you find filling the like of WHL and the bridge. Not me.

Even if you ignore the percentage of turnover thing, though, our wage bill is far higher in absolute terms than those of Everton and Spurs **, so we're clearly not the average payers we think we are.


** +25 pages

Indeed.

Spurs' Wage bill is £11million less and Everton's is £21million less which is pretty shocking.

[nipper]

the more you look in to it the more you realise why Randy's put his foot down. 11M less than Spurs?? is very shocking comparing the players they've got to ours

[Chris Smith]

RL didnt get where he is today without the abillity to pave the way for people to depart on amicable terms.

must admit I find it strange so few fans fail to appreciate that point

Exactly.  The situation is shite.   But when the manager does an apeshite and leaves RL was calm about it. No point going moaning about like kids.   History will tell it's own story.   And my famous Aston Villa will live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As mentioned before no need for him to say anything, he got the General to do his dirty work for him but we've already had the debate so ne point repeating it.

[Chris Smith]

Fair enough, I should have checked but the point stands that we are not in the market currently for players in that price range. I have no issue if that is the way they say we have to run, they know the business better than us its just wrong then to use the fact that we didn't sign £20-£25m players on the ex-manager because the truth is that we can't afford them.

I wonder - and it isn't a loaded, finger pointed question, just a general thought - whether, for the money he has spent, Randy wished Martin had bought a 20-30m player (say rather than 3 7-10m ones), in that that would have been a bums on seats player, which would have made his job (filling the stadium, creating excitement) much easier?

Who can buy £20m-30M players? Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Man City. We just don't have the pulling power in terms of prestige or the ability to make them a financial package they can't refuse.

[jembob]

Who can buy £20m-30M players? Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Man City. We just don't have the pulling power in terms of prestige or the ability to make them a financial package they can't refuse.

It's probably only Citeh at the moment!

[Ads]

Have a look at the SSN trasnfer ticker. You'll see that nobody has spent any real net money, bar Man City.

[Dave Cooper please]

I find it strange that people think Randy is such a fantastic businessman and has this degree of foresight, yet he apparently didn't notice MON spending the club into oblivion.

I do like a bit of hyperbole now and again, but "spending the club into oblivion"?

[IFWaters]

THere was a post early on in this thread that said that last year we paid £71 million in wages - I think thats before buying Dunne, Warnock and Collins. Someone else said our wages have now risen to £85 million.

Doing a bit of basic maths, the club has 440 full time employees including players. Say 20 of them are top management and earn an average of £100k a year = £2 million. Then say 380 of them do all the other jobs and earn an average of £25k a year = £9.5m. Add in approx 1300 casual staff for say 25 match days a year at £30 a match...errr...£975k - call it a million. Then 20 youth players on maybe avg tops of £50k a year - thats another million.

So far weve spent 13.5 million. That leaves between 57 and 72 million to spend on the top 20 players (poor things).

That means they are bumping along on between £2.9 and £3.6 million a year each or £55 to £69k a week - average......is that right

[Tezmond]

Looking at the accounts, Randy sanctioned the loan notes to pay for players and wages and was well aware of the wages:turnover ratio. I guess he saw an opportunity to qualify for the CL which has now receded with the emergence of Man City, MoN only spent the money available to him and is now clear why they (both MoN and Randy) took the gamble on blowing the Moscow game for a better chance of the top 4.

I guess the fall out has come over MoN wanting one more shot with an expensive squad and Randy wanting a change in modus operandi.

The accounts also show quite clearly that Randy is not a philantropic benefactor, but a sensible(?) business investor. All the loan notes are repayable after 10 years, which means we will need to generate 110m GBP in profits over the next 7-8 years or refinance (not even taking into account 09/10 accounts).

It is also a myth that Villa were on an even keel when Randy bought us, he took on 17m GBP debts in addition to the 62m GBP buying price.

[AV82EC]

Tezmond, is he the new Risso?

[deanl123]

..... RL didnt get where he is today without the abillity to pave the way for people to depart on amicable terms.

No, he got where he was today because his dad left him loads of money.

[DaveK]

I find it strange that people think Randy is such a fantastic businessman and has this degree of foresight, yet he apparently didn't notice MON spending the club into oblivion.

I do like a bit of hyperbole now and again, but "spending the club into oblivion"?

You could be forgiven for thinking that's what Randy has allowed to happen reading some of the comments around here though Dave.

My point though, was that many people on here seem to lay the blame for everything that's bad at MON's door, and seem to think that Randy has now decided to put his foot down, so Martin quit. It all seems a bit convenient to me.

Perhaps, in actuality, MON was spending in line with what he had agreed with Randy, but Randy's failed to deliver the commercial success / revenue that was planned to support the wage bill and has therefore welched on his agreement with MON?

That seems as likely as the theory that MON "went a bit mad" with Randy's cheque book to me. If that is what happened then Randy isn't the manager that he's being held up to be IMO.