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Author Topic: How good are they really  (Read 23946 times)

Offline Mazrim

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How good are they really
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2010, 12:25:59 PM »
Although I think its worth trying to find the ideal partner for him (which might be Delfouneso soon enough) I think Gabby works best with wingers.

I dont think his role is properly defined when he plays with another striker. He seems to be like a big cat wary of another big cat in his territory even though they're hunting the same game.

So it might be that we employ the 4-2-3-1 system again with Gabby on his own up front, stretching opposition defences, bringing the wide men into the game and vice versa, allowing the forward central midfielder behind him space to work som magic and link it all together too (I'd see Ireland for this role).

For instance...

----------------Petrov----------Delph

Walcott---------------Ireland---------------Young

------------------------Gabby


But, if we can find a player who can unlock his full potential, read his game and chip in with a fair amount of goals themselves, perfect. I'd still play the system above though on occasion.

Offline Concrete John

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How good are they really
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2010, 12:44:49 PM »
Quote from: "Mazrim"
Although I think its worth trying to find the ideal partner for him (which might be Delfouneso soon enough) I think Gabby works best with wingers.


As with the instinct versus time argument, I think he's best with wingers when breaking forward as opposed to a more patient build up.  We get the best out of our best striker while playing counter attacking football, yet when we do just that people call the manager tactically inept.  Makes you think, doesn't it?

Online Brend'Watkins

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How good are they really
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2010, 01:03:07 PM »
Quote from: "peter w"
Quote from: "Bren_d"
Quote from: "peter w"


MON wanted to go to Liverpool, Milner probably for the off, a disjointed looking midfield last season, and seemingly not able to get marquee players in to get bums on seats, and the team to play well consistently.



This is an undisputed fact now is it?


Yes. he told me. phoned me last night.


Well, that's clarified that.  I'd assumed you might have seen him and other reputable managers outside the Liverpool Boardroom banging on the door shouting "pick me, pick me".

Offline sfx412

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How good are they really
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2010, 05:14:12 PM »
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "Mazrim"
Although I think its worth trying to find the ideal partner for him (which might be Delfouneso soon enough) I think Gabby works best with wingers.


As with the instinct versus time argument, I think he's best with wingers when breaking forward as opposed to a more patient build up.  We get the best out of our best striker while playing counter attacking football, yet when we do just that people call the manager tactically inept.  Makes you think, doesn't it?


I wonder how good he's be in front of the German midfield

Offline Dante Lavelli

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How good are they really
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2010, 05:59:20 PM »
Quote from: "UsualSuspect"

2006/7 - 9 goals
2007/8 - 11 Goals
2008/9 - 12 goals
2009/10 - 13 goals


As far as I can remember, that is without taking any penalties.  When gabby is compared with other strikers - Bent and Keane for example - their total usually includes a number of goals scored from the spot.  I'd guess about 5 a season.  Gabby could easily "look" a better player by taking villa's penalties.  

Ironically one of the best things about Gabby (imo) is that he has identifiable weaknesses.  For example movement in the penalty area can be taught.  I hope this is the area that he tries to improve this season.

Offline sfx412

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How good are they really
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010, 11:04:07 AM »
If the media are to be believed, pundits on radio and TV and so on, Gabby is always highly rated by all and sundry,Merson excluded, Milner has gained a good following but Young seems only rated by some fans and Mon, and perhaps Hodgson

To get the sort of money many expect I'd expect all of them to have a higher rating and demand from bigger clubs.

I can't see why Man City would want Milner and be willing to sell Ireland, especially when they are buying and have quality experienced players there already.

Perhaps Villa's management have circulated certain none obvious players as open to offers, who knows, many have speculated without foundation as yet, we have a paucity of funds so its possible, I guess but unlikely.

Of all our 'better' players Milner is the most expendable,a s we have cover in Downing and Delph, we certainly have none for Gabby and only make do cover for Young.

Offline Concrete John

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How good are they really
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010, 11:19:04 AM »
Quote from: "sfx412"
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "Mazrim"
Although I think its worth trying to find the ideal partner for him (which might be Delfouneso soon enough) I think Gabby works best with wingers.


As with the instinct versus time argument, I think he's best with wingers when breaking forward as opposed to a more patient build up.  We get the best out of our best striker while playing counter attacking football, yet when we do just that people call the manager tactically inept.  Makes you think, doesn't it?


I wonder how good he's be in front of the German midfield


Not that much different, IMO.  Playing with players like that behind you is all about your movement off the ball so they can pick you out, which I think is a weakness in Gabby's game.

Offline ktvillan

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How good are they really
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2010, 02:44:40 PM »
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "east19"
Gabby is not worth anywhere near £20m- he needs to improve his finishing vastly to be in that class, he has potential though and is improving yearly .

Ash is a quality player on his day and he and milner could be England regulars also for many years.

I'd say milner is ahead of them at the moment but a good year could really see ash and gabby push on this season at club and international level.


If Gabby was to leave this summer then we'd easily get £20m for him.


There's no way of proving that one way or the other unless we actually sell him.   Personally I'd be surprised if anyone, with the possible exception of  Cash City, would fork out 20m on a 10-12 goal a season striker who contributes relatively little else to the team.

Offline not3bad

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How good are they really
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2010, 03:16:49 PM »
Quote from: "ktvillan"
on a 10-12 goal a season striker who contributes relatively little else to the team.


10-12 goals and little else?  Really?

Offline Olneythelonely

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How good are they really
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010, 03:17:29 PM »
Quote from: "ktvillan"


There's no way of proving that one way or the other unless we actually sell him.   Personally I'd be surprised if anyone, with the possible exception of  Cash City, would fork out 20m on a 10-12 goal a season striker who contributes relatively little else to the team.


16 goals last season, but apart from that you are spot on. Well, apart from contributing little else to the team, he contributes hugely and is one of our most missed player when not in the team. So yeah, apart from him scoring 16 goals last season and offering a lot more besides, spot on.

Offline Mazrim

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How good are they really
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2010, 03:34:59 PM »
That was a bit rubbish, Katie.

Offline TheSandman

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How good are they really
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2010, 04:36:44 PM »
I used to be a Gabby basher but over the last year or so I've started to rate him increasingly. If we sold him tomorrow I think he'd be a bigger loss than either of Milner and Ash. I don't think we'd be able to source a striker as good as him who does as much.

The last time this issue came up I looked up his stats:
2006-07 42 Games 10 goals
2007-08 40 games 11 goals
2008-09 48 games 13 goals
2009-10 41 games 16 goals

Total has improved each year. He's 24 in October and forwards tend to peak at 27/28. In 4 years time if Gabby keeps on improving his goal tally he'll be bagging a fair few goals.

If he can improve his weaknesses which is by no means impossible he will be some player.

I'd expect £15-20million if we were to sell him but would very firmly rather we didn't.

Offline ktvillan

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How good are they really
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2010, 05:17:13 PM »
Quote from: "olneythelonely"
Quote from: "ktvillan"


There's no way of proving that one way or the other unless we actually sell him.   Personally I'd be surprised if anyone, with the possible exception of  Cash City, would fork out 20m on a 10-12 goal a season striker who contributes relatively little else to the team.


16 goals last season, but apart from that you are spot on. Well, apart from contributing little else to the team, he contributes hugely and is one of our most missed player when not in the team. So yeah, apart from him scoring 16 goals last season and offering a lot more besides, spot on.


I was thinking PL goals and over his career to date.  His average return over the four full seasons he's played is 11.25. Even if you count all his cup goals it's only 12.5 so still not a million miles from my assertion of 10-12 a season.  Although admittedly his total has increased each year and he may yet improve and prove me wrong.

I didn't say he contributes little else, I said he contributes  relatively little else.  It's an important distinction that you overlook.  In my opinion he doesn't do as much as some other strikers in terms of , say, clever link up play, creating space for others with intelligent runs (fat chance), reading the game,  playing other players in, creating something out of nothing etc.  Certainly not enough, in my opinion, to justify a 20 million price tag.

Offline Mazrim

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How good are they really
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2010, 06:24:59 PM »
He's regularly amongst the top rated players in the actim stats so he must be doing something right and a fair bit more than relatively little else. And he's little more than a kid.

Offline march

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How good are they really
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2010, 07:25:17 PM »
Actim stats mean little sometimes but

http://www.premierleague.com/page/ActimIndex

he is 6th in this list of all the PL players

in the top 25 we have Gabby, Milner, Dunne, Cuellar, Young, Freidel

equal with Chelsea

 


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