Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 09:52:00 PM

Title: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 09:52:00 PM
Disappointing
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: villa_cads on September 16, 2019, 09:52:46 PM
It wasn't a classic.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 16, 2019, 09:53:17 PM
Shite.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 09:53:20 PM
I wouldn't be singing 'Sweet Caroline' at the final whistle after that display of our limited capabilities.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Ger Regan on September 16, 2019, 09:53:48 PM
Christ, that was turgid. Sloppy passing, no real danger in the final third.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: LukeJames on September 16, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
I think i will have forgotten about the whole match come 10pm. Defence very good. Thats it.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2019, 09:54:16 PM
Another point on the board. At this rate we look like having to strengthen our striking options in January.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: rob_bridge on September 16, 2019, 09:54:23 PM
We still have lots to learn at this level. That is a fact.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: DB on September 16, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
We have nowt up front. Wesley does not do enough. But we are improvingWest Ham are a good side
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: BoVillan esq on September 16, 2019, 09:55:03 PM
Another point on the board. At this rate we look like having to strengthen our striking options in January.

This.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 16, 2019, 09:55:09 PM
Sky sports news were saying it was an end to end decent game!  Clearly scoring goals is our issue.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: thick_mike on September 16, 2019, 09:55:15 PM
I think the ref’s union bailed us out at the end there. Not sure we would have got away with that penalty shout if we hadn’t got shafted against Palace.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: DB on September 16, 2019, 09:55:32 PM
Another point on the board. At this rate we look like having to strengthen our striking options in January.

It's a must.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ez on September 16, 2019, 09:55:42 PM
I wish we didn't keep playing risky passes when the ball out wide is the obvious choice.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: petegoldring on September 16, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
Dog Shite. Jack's passing was terrible tonight. Very negative tactics and no urgency.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on September 16, 2019, 09:55:57 PM
Sloppy by all of them. Grealish had a real stinker.

Officials c**ts again. Lucky to have a point.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Le Lapin on September 16, 2019, 09:56:07 PM
We need to scrap for every point. This team are going to struggle. But we will need to fight hard to stay up.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 09:56:33 PM
I thought Marvelous had a good game after a shaky start. AEG was a bit rubbish.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: gpbarr on September 16, 2019, 09:56:39 PM
Tired of saying it but Dean is currently fixated (it would appear) on a formation that IMO is not fit for the PL.

Jota and SJG are too alike - we can only afford one type of player like that on the pitch and, when they both play poorly (like tonight) we are toothless.

And he has to play 2 of Luiz/Marvelous/Hourihane for me every time - only 1 and we look lightweight in midfield.

Its so damn obvious - drop JOta or AEG for one additional DM, we will look far more solid and as a result, we wont have creative players dropping deep all the time to re-enforce midfield, leaving them focused on what they do best.

wesley/davis is a straight swap question, but IMO not the biggest problem.

Dean - learn!!!!
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: saint13 on September 16, 2019, 09:56:46 PM
We are very weak down our left side. Taylor gives us absolutely nothing going forward. He is completely pedestrian and under hits virtually every pass he makes.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 09:56:58 PM
46% possession?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2019, 09:57:10 PM
Definitely not worth getting up for. I thought we were ok first half, the second not so much.

My interest started to wane when Elmo was brought on for Jota. Couldn't they just alter the formation, get a bit more zip in the middle of the park, and put two up front?

Overall, 4/10. Jack still too deep, Taylor, Jota, El Ghazi and Wesley offered very little.

On the plus side, defence does look solid, Guilbert impressed with his pace, and Heaton didn't have much to do.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: four fornicholl on September 16, 2019, 09:57:22 PM
Deano made the wrong changes too late, 5 out of 10.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: manic-road on September 16, 2019, 09:57:46 PM
At half time I'd have taken the point, too many players had an off night. Lots of misplaced passes, I hope we don't have to many performances at home like this over the season or we will be in trouble.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Rudy65 on September 16, 2019, 09:58:00 PM
We are very weak down our left side. Taylor gives us absolutely nothing going forward. He is completely pedestrian and under hits virtually every pass he makes.

Taylor had a decent game in my view
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2019, 09:59:18 PM
Positives - got a point, kept a clean sheet, and Mings, Engels and Guilbert were good.

Negatives - very disjointed, no control in midfield, and really lacked threat. Jota and El Ghazi were poor.

Need to develop our game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: manic-road on September 16, 2019, 09:59:55 PM
We are very weak down our left side. Taylor gives us absolutely nothing going forward. He is completely pedestrian and under hits virtually every pass he makes.

Taylor had a decent game in my view

Yep Taylor was one of our most consistent players. Solid without being spectacular, there were others far worse than Taylor.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: thick_mike on September 16, 2019, 10:00:00 PM
Out of the relegation zone
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 16, 2019, 10:00:03 PM
That was fucking shit. We never remotely looked like scoring tonight.

Mings and Engels very good, and Marvelous grew into it, but aside from that it was awful.

Where the fuck we are going to get enough goals from this season is anyones guess. We will need to spend and spend big on forward options in January
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Rudy65 on September 16, 2019, 10:00:04 PM
Tired of saying it but Dean is currently fixated (it would appear) on a formation that IMO is not fit for the PL.

Jota and SJG are too alike - we can only afford one type of player like that on the pitch and, when they both play poorly (like tonight) we are toothless.

And he has to play 2 of Luiz/Marvelous/Hourihane for me every time - only 1 and we look lightweight in midfield.

Its so damn obvious - drop JOta or AEG for one additional DM, we will look far more solid and as a result, we wont have creative players dropping deep all the time to re-enforce midfield, leaving them focused on what they do best.

wesley/davis is a straight swap question, but IMO not the biggest problem.

Dean - learn!!!!

Agreed. He doesn’t vary it enough for me. Easy to blame Wesley, but he had zero service and no support. If the wide men are going to stay wide the midfield have to support Wesley, otherwise we get what we get. Sweet FA
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: LukeJames on September 16, 2019, 10:00:55 PM
We limited Westham to absolutely nothing, 2 clean sheets on the bounce at home.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: AV82EC on September 16, 2019, 10:00:56 PM
We look really weak in the two wide positions. Full backs were not great tonight. We looked brainless when they went down to 10 men. Still learning....

Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Dazvillain on September 16, 2019, 10:01:05 PM
Good game to blood marvellous
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on September 16, 2019, 10:01:16 PM
Well, that was frustrating. Jota is very one-paced, Taylor is a liability and El Ghazi could have been removed to save his blushes. Wesley needs to do more. I think we will improve though. Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:01:23 PM
Definitely not worth getting up for.
I'm regretting those 5 cans of Stella as I'm up at 5.30 and it's 11pm now.

Fucking Villa eh! We're like no deal Brexit on a football pitch.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Drummond on September 16, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
A bit dull.

As has been said too many misplaced passes. Trying to hard, too many fancy passes rather than keeping it simple and building patiently.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
That was a steaming pile of old shite. So many needless passes given away under no pressure. Grealish was really poor second half, very bad indeed. Southgate is here again, can’t think he’ll have been impressed at all.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 16, 2019, 10:01:44 PM
We are very weak down our left side. Taylor gives us absolutely nothing going forward. He is completely pedestrian and under hits virtually every pass he makes.

Taylor had a decent game in my view

Yep Taylor was one of our most consistent players. Solid without being spectacular, there were others far worse than Taylor.

Taylor didn't have a "bad" game, but he is so limited as a footballer it completely takes the left hand side of the pitch away as an attacking threat.

In fairness El Ghazi was a joke tonight.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2019, 10:02:24 PM
I know we are back in the PL and it is a step up.  But Dean seems to have gone very negative in his tactics all of a sudden, we have turned into a counter attacking team and we are too slow for that.  Those tactics against the top sides are okay but against the middle table sides we need to be more positive.  At least we didn't lose it.  We could have done easily especially after they went down to ten strangely.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: garyshawsknee on September 16, 2019, 10:03:32 PM
Pretty drab second half. On the positive side, defence looked good, Freddy looks a quality player, Taylor's defensive side is so much stronger now, just lacks going forward. Thought Marvellous grew into the game and looked good. We still look on the toothless side up front, we'll have to have patience with Wesley.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Le Lapin on September 16, 2019, 10:04:23 PM
Grealish is not the player that he or we think he is.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:04:48 PM
West Ham failed to have a single shot on target iirc.  Defensively, we are seemingly ok.  The midfield was pedestrian at times and way too slow to move the ball.  Urgency is the word.  Wrong choices and sloppy passing will get punished.  Neither of the two potential penalties was a penalty in my view.  The referee is a twat.  Marvelous was pretty good but Luiz slowed us down and looks a bit chunky to me. SJM was good but we are inconsistent going forward.   West Ham will be happier with the point and we have to be much more ruthless. I want Dean to alter the formation to 4231.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: CT Villan on September 16, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
That second half was utter garbage. I'm struggling to find someone who had a good game...Engels, McGinn, Heaton maybe ?

Wesley, Jack, Guilbert and El Ghazi were poor.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2019, 10:05:18 PM
I can see Wesley having some fun against Luiz next weekend mind.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:05:23 PM
Not good enough.

Jack was rubbish by his standards. So was SJM. We look so clueless against a decent defence that stands our attackers up.

We’re desperately lacking flexibility in the squad. No options up front, one proper wide player who can’t be relied on to put in a shift.

And smith looking like he struggles to change the tactics up when he needs to.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 16, 2019, 10:05:31 PM
Grealish is not the player that he or we think he is.
He didn't have his best game.  It happens.  He still gets involved.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ROBBO on September 16, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
Wesley doesn't protect the ball very well for a big guy he may be a good player in the making but we don't have time to wait. McGinn was the only player that looked like he had a goal in him, when he tired that was the end of us winning. Grealish is starting to annoy me when the winger is wide open why turn back into traffic? he was very sloppy all night. We are not a bad side but I can't see where the goals are coming from lets hope we can hold out til January.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2019, 10:06:54 PM
I can't wait for Kodjia to be fit I really think he could make a difference up front as daft as that sounds.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 16, 2019, 10:07:50 PM
Sounds as if we were low on creativity and firing blanks up front.  Solid enough at the back.  I don't see us outplaying many sides this season so we have to put our chances away.  If that means buying another striker in January then so be it.  Frankly we should have one here already.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2019, 10:07:54 PM
We are not going to survive as a counter attacking team. We need control and guile in midfield and one of the bloody centre-mids to get up in support of Wesley.
 
Jack was decent in the first half, rubbish in the second. He needs to play further up the pitch.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:08:31 PM
I can't wait for Kodjia to be fit I really think he could make a difference up front as daft as that sounds.
I thought straws had been banned kippax.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on September 16, 2019, 10:09:08 PM
It wasn’t pretty.

West Ham are a good team and it’s a good benchmark to play them and not concede.

However...

We need to do better than that. Wesley isn’t getting the service or support, AEG and Jota were just weak tonight. The wingers seem to be a problem area at the moment... I was even wondering if Douglas Luiz could play on the wing at one point.

Grealish... he seems determined to mess up a chance of playing for England. But it wasn’t just him tonight. Final ball was not clinical enough. The same goes for many of the passes. We need to be neater and tidier.

Plus sides though... I though Marvellous grew into the game really well. A few sloppy passes but was always thwarting their attempts to move. Guilbert/Mings/Engels/Taylor... they looked solid. Heaton didn’t have to do much... wasn’t his only major save from Taylor’s header back?

The defence is ok, but by gum, we need to sort out our attack.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2019, 10:09:09 PM
We need to get to January and not be in the shit. Then get in a couple of players who are going to make a difference. Pay what we need to because the alternative is not worth contemplating.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2019, 10:09:16 PM
I know, I know but he might stretch the play a bit more even if he replaces El Ghazi who is really struggling.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: FatSam on September 16, 2019, 10:09:53 PM
Not a terrible result, but we didn't play well, and should have done better having been gifted that sending-off. We gave the ball away relentlessly. You can tell it's not going well when Grealish starts coming back to take the ball off the centre backs.

I don't think we should be too critical of Wesley, given how raw he is in this league, but he didn't have the best of games. It doesn't seem to be possible to implement a positive Plan B with the options on the bench. I really hope we are lining-up another striker in the January window.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:11:03 PM
Sounds as if we were low on creativity and firing blanks up front.  Solid enough at the back.  I don't see us outplaying many sides this season so we have to put our chances away.  If that means buying another striker in January then so be it.  Frankly we should have one here already.

In a game like that, when you see us starting a non scoring striker and bringing another one off the bench, it brings home how mad it was to start this season so light up front. I’d give my right bollock for maupay, or someone’s like him, right now.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Ian. on September 16, 2019, 10:12:08 PM
Well it was quite frustrating, but I thought we actually showed far more attacking intent than them. Jack even though was guilty of a lot of stray passes was still a threat and we could or should have scored a couple from his supply.

Thought the back four and Marvellous was very good, but big Wes didn’t show enough. He looks too isolated up there, or isn’t moving enough. Not sure which.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ROBBO on September 16, 2019, 10:13:14 PM
I was hoping he would bring Hourihane on for the last thirty minutes.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: DB on September 16, 2019, 10:13:59 PM
I can see Wesley having some fun against Luiz next weekend mind.

Really? He has been a huge disappointment
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: brontebilly on September 16, 2019, 10:14:32 PM
Tactically we are at sea with our two best midfielders out of position, its baffling Smith cant see this.

Bringing Elmo on first as a right wing utterly bizarre, leaving Luiz waste on sideline while 10 man West Ham dominated possession against us,

Positives: Marvelous had a solid debut, Engels very good again. Thought Grealish was very good the first 60 mins but seemed to drop his head after a few missed passes.

Heaton 6 - little to do
Guilbert 5 - took a heavy knock in the first half, struggled a bit after that and could have been replaced as soon as they went down to 10
Engels 7 - very good yet again, no frills but solid in every aspect of his play
Mings 6 - Haller gave him a few problems, ongoing problems with distribution but a symptom of a bigger tactical problem
Taylor 5 - didnt do a whole pile wrong but nowhere near good enough for a team that needs quality footballers out wide, his weight of pass alone is scandalous. gives the recipient no options.
Marvellous 7 - struggled with pace early on but settled very well after that. well able to win back possession and added some much needed pace and bite to our midfield
McGinn 6 - battled hard as always without the ball but dont recall to many quality moments with it. We arent giving him a platform to perform with our set up
Grealish 7 - our outstanding player by miles in the first half, creating two great chances, but was hard to watch him in second half. Body language stunk after some missed passes and unfortunately wasnt a surprise he made a mess of the chance at end. But its not right that he has to drop so deep to get on the ball and we are going nowhere until that is rectified
Jota 4 - lightweight and frankly Carles Gil offered more of a threat. Didnt think this guy would be able to step up and has done little to suggest otherwise so far. Hasnt a prayer of making it on the right wing at this level so another one sold out by our tactics
El Ghazi 5 - poor lets be honest and bumping heads with Mings wasnt a great look. tried hard in second I thought but I think any attacking player will struggle with Neil Taylor behind them offering no support with the ball
Wesley 3 - genuinely hopeless, woeful movement and embarrassed himself diving on the ground. Worrying lack of threat.

Elmo 6 - not his fault to be brought on in a position he is unsuited to. Better at right back, think it was his ball into Grealish?
Luiz 6 - should have been on as soon as they went down to 10, lively enough
Davis 6 - showed more for the ball than Wesley anyway and should have got more minutes

Smith 4 - horror show tactically and bambi in headlights stuff after West Ham went down to 10. International break obviously wasted when the midfield formation should have been gutted and started again. Worrying frankly.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on September 16, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Give the ball away like that at the Emirates and we’ll get hammered.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:17:24 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:17:40 PM
We need to get to January May and not be in the shit.
FTFY.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:19:26 PM
We have conceded one goal in 348 minutes of football.  Defensively, we are strong.  Going forward is the problem.  Despite Dean telling us what they are working on in training, I don't see a pattern of play when we move forward.  Overhit crosses, or dilly dally with it outside the box.  We have to be more ruthless.  Wesley had 3 efforts on goal, one of them was offside to be fair.  He gets into the positions but, like the rest of our forward play, needs to be more ruthless.  I'd have taken a point before the game but am now a little disappointed that we didn't look like winning.  We had the best of the chances though.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: FatSam on September 16, 2019, 10:20:22 PM
I can't wait for Kodjia to be fit I really think he could make a difference up front as daft as that sounds.

At least he's something different - he gives defenders something to think about if he comes on for the last half hour. I think Wesley and Davis both have a lot of potential, but they are very similar in terms of approach and goal threat.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:20:35 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.

Sorry mate but I think this is way over the top.  They had more possession but failed to register a shot on target.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on September 16, 2019, 10:21:07 PM
I was hoping he would bring Hourihane on for the last thirty minutes.

My Mrs said that and she doesn't know anything about football. I think you were both spot on.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:21:28 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2019, 10:21:42 PM
The subs were very defensive, which has been unlike DS till now.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2019, 10:22:18 PM
Arsenal next. They're average at best, shit at the back and yet I am genuinely scared we might take an almighty kicking.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TonyD on September 16, 2019, 10:22:34 PM
We were good in defence, played well in patches, played poor in patches but ultimately Dean plays the wrong formation and I think there lies the problem.

You can pick apart the individual performances but again I don’t think we know what we’re doing going forward and that’s down to Dean. 
 
BUT my biggest observation for many many many matches is:

WHY doesn’t our best two players - Jack and McGinn never  seem to link up and carve teams apart? 

They rarely pass to each other? 

Answers on a postcard please!!!!!!
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: old man villa fan on September 16, 2019, 10:23:42 PM
We are learning at this level with few players that have played in the PL before.  As others have said, we need to stop giving the ball away so much and play the easier pass.  There is a lot of naivety in the team.  We still need to up the tempo and maintain it throughout the game.  My impression was it was not as bad as some are making out.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:24:59 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.

Sorry mate but I think this is way over the top.  They had more possession but failed to register a shot on target.

You might be right mate it’s just a feeling, but looking at the body language of Grealish and McGinn, the swagger has gone. That’s the bit that worries me the most. 0-0 against a decent PL side where we probably edged them isn’t a bad result. But the momentum just seems to be flowing the wrong way and the players seem to be aware of it.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: nick harper on September 16, 2019, 10:25:24 PM
4-2-3-1 and a place in the side for Hourihane.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
In the hole?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Villa Lew on September 16, 2019, 10:27:20 PM
Thought after a nervy start Marvelous did well on his debut, SJM always looked positive and will become a top Premier league player, defence looked solid, but overall a disappointing display, lacking any quality. Good news out of the bottom 3!

UP THE VILLA
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:28:01 PM
Arsenal next. They're average at best, shit at the back and yet I am genuinely scared we might take an almighty kicking.

Interestingly, teams who attack are being rewarded by dodgy defences amongst the supposed big teams. Yet we seem to have become a team that defends well but doesn’t create. Very un-smith like, presumably a product of squad imbalance.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:29:31 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.

Sorry mate but I think this is way over the top.  They had more possession but failed to register a shot on target.

You might be right mate it’s just a feeling, but looking at the body language of Grealish and McGinn, the swagger has gone. That’s the bit that worries me the most. 0-0 against a decent PL side where we probably edged them isn’t a bad result. But the momentum just seems to be flowing the wrong way and the players seem to be aware of it.

If those two players in particular, lose the belief in what they are doing, because it's so hard in this division, we will be bang in trouble because they have been the heartbeat of the side.  I wonder if them two playing in a more advanced position is a better way to go?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on September 16, 2019, 10:31:27 PM
Just as a thought... do you think we could get a midfield to work that incorporated Marvellous, Douglas, McGinn and Grealish?

Hourihane deserves a chance too... he’s a regular goal threat and that’s something we’re missing at the moment.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: JJ-AV on September 16, 2019, 10:32:28 PM
Thought we played well for long periods and matched them - but we have no options outwide or centre forward.

Concerned about our lack of goal threat, but should have had the three points.

Still, if we can beat Burnley then we'll have 7 from 7 which isn't a bad start. We do need to improve in the final third and unless something changes quick a Darren Bent type January may be needed to keep us up.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: OzVilla on September 16, 2019, 10:35:11 PM
I can see Wesley having some fun against Luiz next weekend mind.

I was thinking the opposite. Wesley will be isolated again playing against 2 centre halves. Luis will be able to get on the ball and not be pressured. That's the only time he looks decent.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Fred Crump on September 16, 2019, 10:36:37 PM
Just as a thought... do you think we could get a midfield to work that incorporated Marvellous, Douglas, McGinn and Grealish?

Hourihane deserves a chance too... he’s a regular goal threat and that’s something we’re missing at the moment.

I agree with trying Douglas and Marvellous together. We need to get Jack higher up the pitch.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 16, 2019, 10:37:16 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.

Shocking . Man should be burying  that . Technics all wrong. Bullet header bang.
I don't rate him at the mo and really find him frustrating to watch. Wesley offers little ball control and see it as a dud signing. Sporting director recruitment looks miss in this one.
Hope I'm proved wrong !
Boy do I miss Tammy Abraham.
But to gamble on this hop along Wesley one of the most underwhelming attacking Brazilian players I've ever seen well I rather have developed  Davis and see him in.

This whole recruitment as to grow  investment is all well and good but I'm seriously questioning Wesley ability right now and anyone who isn't really should because that's not what we expect from a premier league striker. Average footballer , ineffective and just lacks much dynamism.  He should nt be for a Dean Smith team for me I don't know why spent that money for him bumbling that front line ! Annoying !
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 10:37:35 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.

Sorry mate but I think this is way over the top.  They had more possession but failed to register a shot on target.

You might be right mate it’s just a feeling, but looking at the body language of Grealish and McGinn, the swagger has gone. That’s the bit that worries me the most. 0-0 against a decent PL side where we probably edged them isn’t a bad result. But the momentum just seems to be flowing the wrong way and the players seem to be aware of it.

If those two players in particular, lose the belief in what they are doing, because it's so hard in this division, we will be bang in trouble because they have been the heartbeat of the side.  I wonder if them two playing in a more advanced position is a better way to go?

Definitely. Grealish is playing so deep and while I love watching him getting in the way of shots and carrying the ball up the pitch I want to see him doing damage up front. Same with McGinn to a degree - he can do it fine, but IMO he’s wasted spending all game tackling back and coming in from wide positions.

Ultimately our biggest failing so far this season is not getting the best out of them and that I think is really on Smith.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Edvard Remberg on September 16, 2019, 10:38:19 PM
Jota too slow. Aeg should only play every second game.  Rest okayish
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 10:40:54 PM
In the hole?

(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2014/01/york.gif)
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 16, 2019, 10:43:31 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.

Shocking . Man should be burying  that . Technics all wrong. Bullet header bang.
I don't rate him at the mo and really find him frustrating to watch. Wesley offers little ball control and see it as a dud signing. Sporting director recruitment looks miss in this one.
Hope I'm proved wrong !
Boy do I miss Tammy Abraham.
But to gamble on this hop along Wesley one of the most underwhelming attacking Brazilian players I've ever seen well I rather have developed  Davis and see him in.

This whole recruitment as to grow  investment is all well and good but I'm seriously questioning Wesley ability right now and anyone who isn't really should because that's not what we expect from a premier league striker. Average footballer , ineffective and just lacks much dynamism.  He should nt be for a Dean Smith team for me I don't know why spent that money for him bumbling that front line ! Annoying !

Nothing like giving a bloke a chance eh?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TaxDodger on September 16, 2019, 10:43:39 PM
Any reason why Declan Rice clapped the Holte so passionately at the end of the game and why he received such a good reception? I mean, I have nothing against Declan Rice and I suppose he plays for England, but I was a little confused as to why he was so loved.

I thought it was Snodgrass for a second, but he came and clapped a few minutes later.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: FatSam on September 16, 2019, 10:44:24 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.

Shocking . Man should be burying  that . Technics all wrong. Bullet header bang.
I don't rate him at the mo and really find him frustrating to watch. Wesley offers little ball control and see it as a dud signing. Sporting director recruitment looks miss in this one.
Hope I'm proved wrong !
Boy do I miss Tammy Abraham.
But to gamble on this hop along Wesley one of the most underwhelming attacking Brazilian players I've ever seen well I rather have developed  Davis and see him in.

This whole recruitment as to grow  investment is all well and good but I'm seriously questioning Wesley ability right now and anyone who isn't really should because that's not what we expect from a premier league striker. Average footballer , ineffective and just lacks much dynamism.  He should nt be for a Dean Smith team for me I don't know why spent that money for him bumbling that front line ! Annoying !

He is new to the league, and was immense against Everton. I also think calling him hop-along is incredibly cheap.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 16, 2019, 10:44:58 PM
In a nutshell: Not good enough.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Fred Crump on September 16, 2019, 10:45:04 PM
Arsenal next. They're average at best, shit at the back and yet I am genuinely scared we might take an almighty kicking.
Arsenal average ?? Since when has any Arsenal team ever been average at best ?Let’s keep a sense of proportion  - Bristol City or Boro are average at best , but not the Gooners , much as I dislike them
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: andyh on September 16, 2019, 10:47:43 PM
Lack of goals, and more importantly, lack of anyone taking responsibility around the opposition box is going to kill us.

Real lack of quality with some of our players tonight including Jack. I have never seen him give the ball away so many times in a single game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:48:20 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Richard E on September 16, 2019, 10:49:43 PM
Like the look of Nakamba. He was generally neat and tidy and got stuck in.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:49:47 PM
Any reason why Declan Rice clapped the Holte so passionately at the end of the game and why he received such a good reception? I mean, I have nothing against Declan Rice and I suppose he plays for England, but I was a little confused as to why he was so loved.

I thought it was Snodgrass for a second, but he came and clapped a few minutes later.

Rice was lined up by Steve Bruce to come to us on loan apparently.  He wanted to come to us too. I thought he played well tonight and drove their midfield on. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Stu on September 16, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.

Vill I An is in a spin.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2019, 10:51:22 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.

Shocking . Man should be burying  that . Technics all wrong. Bullet header bang.
I don't rate him at the mo and really find him frustrating to watch. Wesley offers little ball control and see it as a dud signing. Sporting director recruitment looks miss in this one.
Hope I'm proved wrong !
Boy do I miss Tammy Abraham.
But to gamble on this hop along Wesley one of the most underwhelming attacking Brazilian players I've ever seen well I rather have developed  Davis and see him in.

This whole recruitment as to grow  investment is all well and good but I'm seriously questioning Wesley ability right now and anyone who isn't really should because that's not what we expect from a premier league striker. Average footballer , ineffective and just lacks much dynamism.  He should nt be for a Dean Smith team for me I don't know why spent that money for him bumbling that front line ! Annoying !

Nothing like giving a bloke a chance eh?

Yeah he's called Davis and he has a contract on the table.
If you tell me Wesley impress you then that's your view but he doesn't impress me for reasons stated.
And to have him as the main striker is more than concerning for me.

You made your point. You don't rate him, we get it.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:51:49 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.

Vill I An is in a spin.
He'll turn the tables, no worries.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 10:52:34 PM
These fucking punathons give me the needle.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Stu on September 16, 2019, 10:53:02 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.

Vill I An is in a spin.
He'll turn the tables, no worries.

Yeah, too much needle to his posts at the moment.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 10:54:06 PM
These fucking punathons give me the needle.
What do you expect. It's HMV.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on September 16, 2019, 10:54:50 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.

Vill I An is in a spin.

Our Brazilian Pioneer.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: brontebilly on September 16, 2019, 10:56:25 PM
We were good in defence, played well in patches, played poor in patches but ultimately Dean plays the wrong formation and I think there lies the problem.

You can pick apart the individual performances but again I don’t think we know what we’re doing going forward and that’s down to Dean. 
 
BUT my biggest observation for many many many matches is:

WHY doesn’t our best two players - Jack and McGinn never  seem to link up and carve teams apart? 

They rarely pass to each other? 

Answers on a postcard please!!!!!!

The answers are in the first part of your post I'm afraid. We simply have to play 4231 for about four weeks straight with McGinn, Grealish and one more Hourihane for now in the three. Marvelous put his hand up for one of the holding roles tonight. Not sure Luiz has 90 mins in him yet but can play next to him. I'd be tempted to start Davis up top next day out.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Duncan Shaw on September 16, 2019, 10:57:49 PM
I thought we looked like a pretty comfortable run if the mill mid table top division side, against another one, until the final 3rd when we looked like a championship side trying to step up.  A gam to be won, but a point decent enough.  Work in progress and we will get there.  Engels may well go down as one of the best value signings in the whole league this year.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: robbo1874 on September 16, 2019, 10:58:16 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.
i get how some people didn’t like how he hit the decks near the end.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 16, 2019, 10:58:28 PM
Wesley’s header in the first half. I like him, but most strikers score those 9 times out of 10. We can’t afford the luxury of of missing chances like that if we’re going to create bugger all and try and edge games.

Shocking . Man should be burying  that . Technics all wrong. Bullet header bang.
I don't rate him at the mo and really find him frustrating to watch. Wesley offers little ball control and see it as a dud signing. Sporting director recruitment looks miss in this one.
Hope I'm proved wrong !
Boy do I miss Tammy Abraham.
But to gamble on this hop along Wesley one of the most underwhelming attacking Brazilian players I've ever seen well I rather have developed  Davis and see him in.

This whole recruitment as to grow  investment is all well and good but I'm seriously questioning Wesley ability right now and anyone who isn't really should because that's not what we expect from a premier league striker. Average footballer , ineffective and just lacks much dynamism.  He should nt be for a Dean Smith team for me I don't know why spent that money for him bumbling that front line ! Annoying !

Nothing like giving a bloke a chance eh?

Yeah he's called Davis and he has a contract on the table.
If you tell me Wesley impress you then that's your view but he doesn't impress me for reasons stated.
And to have him as the main striker is more than concerning for me.

I'm more concerned that a team containing Grealish, McGinn, Jota and El Ghazi creates so few chances for the striker, whoever he is. Crack that problem and we'll be onto something.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 16, 2019, 10:59:42 PM
Didn’t think we did enough to win.

Plus points were that we looked more creative and Wesley simply has to bury those two chances, McGinn made himself a few opportunities but you’d expect the keeper to save them. Also thought Mings held his own in the battle with the striker with whom I was very, very impressed.

Again we struggled to get the ball into Jack quickly enough when he found space and I’m convinced this is because the full backs don’t play high enough when we have the ball.

Thought the sending off changed the game and not in a positive way for us, they managed the game superbly and gave a very good display of counter attacking with Noble and Rice dominating. We shrank and and made brainless decision after brainless choice. We didn’t drag them out of shape on enough occasions.

And whilst Jota is a fine technical player, he’s simply not good enough without the ball to justify his place at this level.

Draw about right
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 11:02:56 PM
Thinking about how Evans or McNaught would react to AEG doing to them what he did to Mings, I don't think Allan would hit him but I think Ken would.


*I'm sorry but it amused me
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: django on September 16, 2019, 11:03:03 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.
i get how some people didn’t like how he hit the decks near the end.

His stylus all wrong for us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
West Ham played well with 10 men, indeed they look more threatening with that number than the full 11. Zabaleta was bombing up and down that left flank no problem, he's 35. That's premier league nous for you, they knew how to slow the game down, keep the ball and counter attack. Compare that to us at Palace when it was panic stations and we were just booting the ball anywhere.

Our game really went to pieces in that last 20 minutes, just running into the congested centre all the time and really no idea how to move 10 men around the pitch. We must be one of the worst top level teams around for failing to win against 10 men, still remember that Boro game from two seasons back when they went down to 10 in the first five minutes and we still couldn't win.

Wonder how many times we've failed to win against 10 men at VP in last 20 years. Would be double figures I reckon.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Duncan Shaw on September 16, 2019, 11:05:16 PM
Also thought Mings held his own in the battle with the striker with whom I was very, very impressed.

An experienced striker who West Ham paid £40m plus for and yet still didn't have a shot on target.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2019, 11:07:45 PM
Technics all wrong.
He's our record signing.
i get how some people didn’t like how he hit the decks near the end.

He might have slipped a disc hitting the decks like that.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 11:08:45 PM
I slagged trezeguet off after the palace game for his petulance but watching tonight, Christ, if you take him out we look desperately short of attacking intelligence and creativity.

I’d like to see hourihane get some minutes next game. If we’re looking tight at the back but desperately lacking up from we could do with his free kick threat.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 16, 2019, 11:12:51 PM
We could really do with our full-backs getting forward more. I expected Guilbert to bomb forward on the overlap but he just didn't. Taylor did what I expected of him in attack, which was nil. Ball goes to him and the attack fizzles out. Doesn't run, doesn't cross, just stops it and plays it back up the line. It slows everything down and gives the defence loads of time to get into position.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 16, 2019, 11:12:52 PM
Dean takes some of the blame for me, at times we had 5 players passing the ball around on the half way line with only one WHU player in the same postcode.

We really needed to think that fortune favours the brave and push a couple of players forward, and keep the ball better.

Frustrating, and not the mentality I expected.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2019, 11:16:27 PM
DS post-match https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1173719031653830657
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: rougegorge on September 16, 2019, 11:18:23 PM
West Ham played well with 10 men, indeed they look more threatening with that number than the full 11. Zabaleta was bombing up and down that left flank no problem, he's 35. That's premier league nous for you, they knew how to slow the game down, keep the ball and counter attack. Compare that to us at Palace when it was panic stations and we were just booting the ball anywhere.

Our game really went to pieces in that last 20 minutes, just running into the congested centre all the time and really no idea how to move 10 men around the pitch. We must be one of the worst top level teams around for failing to win against 10 men, still remember that Boro game from two seasons back when they went down to 10 in the first five minutes and we still couldn't win.

Wonder how many times we've failed to win against 10 men at VP in last 20 years. Would be double figures I reckon.
I agree. We looked so flaky in the last 20 minutes and there was no shape or concerted formation against their 10.

I only recall Rotherham last season when we played better with 10, but that admittedly wasn't top opposition.

We still had the best chances, but I'm getting more doubtful about the approach of a lone striker and any of the wide players we have. The lack of forward options has been highlighted many times but it looks starker than ever.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: stevo_st on September 16, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Would have liked us to have gone 4-2-3-1 before the sending off.

And maybe three at the back once we eventually calmed down after about 5-10 mins from their sending off.

Luiz sort of got in the way when he came on, playing deep, trying to pick up short passes off the centre halves.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 16, 2019, 11:23:14 PM
We were good in defence, played well in patches, played poor in patches but ultimately Dean plays the wrong formation and I think there lies the problem.

You can pick apart the individual performances but again I don’t think we know what we’re doing going forward and that’s down to Dean. 
 
BUT my biggest observation for many many many matches is:

WHY doesn’t our best two players - Jack and McGinn never  seem to link up and carve teams apart? 

They rarely pass to each other? 

Answers on a postcard please!!!!!!
Because they are having to cover a lot of ground either side of the DM.
I do not think this formation suits them at this level.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Kimaster1976 on September 16, 2019, 11:26:15 PM
Just got home from the game.

Boy we were poor, and Dean Smith says "i thought we were good 11v11" sorry Dean NO.

Grealish had a shocker and somehow El Ghazi was worse. McGinn was fighting a one man crusade for 60 minutes before tiring. Wesley looked strong, fast and sharp against Everton he looked like Heskey's far less talented sibling tonight.

This playing 4-3-3 aint working in the Premier for me, well not when any of your wingers or striker are playing as they are. I would overload the midfield atm as thats where most of our talented players stem from yet half of them have to sit on the bench every week.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 16, 2019, 11:27:26 PM
We were desperate for a left footed attacker from the bench, is there anyone in the stiffs?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ktvillan on September 16, 2019, 11:27:27 PM
Frustrating but not disastrous.  Odd how we fell apart once they went down to 10 men.  We looked tired, which perhaps explains the multiple misplaced passes towards the end.

Positives: Nakamba had a decent debut,  the defence didn't give them a clear chance on goal, we created the clearer chances, Guilbert looked quick and committed, Grealish looked good first half.

Less positive:  Tempo still too slow,  way too many sloppy passes, neither winger much cop, centre forward a bit isolated and missed two free headers even if one was offside, Taylor, whilst ok defensively, is useless when attacking, a seeming reluctance to have a pop (Taylor and Grealish had sight of goal second half and bottled it), Jota looks lightweight, a bit slow and very one-footed,  struggling against 10 men.

All in all we don't look a bad team, certainly nothing like 3-4 years ago, we maybe need a bit more time for players to bed in and for things to click.  And maybe Dean needs to re-think the formation.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 16, 2019, 11:33:28 PM
I think the problem is both the formation and the Centre forward.
I think we need a rethink in terms of how we can get our most creative players into the game offensively.

 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 16, 2019, 11:35:43 PM
Jack made a couple of very slack passes but his biggest fault tonight was that he dragged his marker into already crowded areas and he also slowed down the pace of attacks.

He really needs to show a little self sacrifice and give up having so many touches overall to play higher up the field.

I wouldn’t describe him as poor as he made some great dribbles but he needs to be used more wisely.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 16, 2019, 11:35:55 PM
the wingers or whatever you want to call them arnt good enough

I’d swap Jota El Ghazi and Trez for one really good wide player
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2019, 11:38:23 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.
You have posted this for effect haven't you?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Duncan Shaw on September 16, 2019, 11:39:03 PM
I think Jack is trying too hard.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on September 16, 2019, 11:41:30 PM
I think Jack is trying too hard.

He's starting to look like a character from Prisoner cell block H
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
Sadly, we look increasingly cowed by PL opposition. West Ham at home with 10 men and they outplayed us.
You have posted this for effect haven't you?

No.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2019, 11:48:51 PM
Sloppy by all of them. Grealish had a real stinker.

Officials c**ts again. Lucky to have a point.
I would like to disagree on all points. Not all were sloppy. Defence played well. Grealish wasn't brilliant but still provided a heavy burden for West Ham. Officials were ok. Dean was probably the best ref we have had all season. Definitely NOT lucky to have a point. It was the minimum we deserved.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on September 16, 2019, 11:49:58 PM
I can say “I was there”...you don’t often see 2 winners on Prize Where It Lies...magical stuff!
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Gareth on September 16, 2019, 11:50:46 PM
Not read a post in this thread so apologies if rehashing but I thought the positives were that we look hard to beat and there was plenty of energy.

Thought we were generally the better side but not sure either keeper will have left thinking they were particularly busy.

For me the issue is still the one that we’ve struggled a little with since Deano took over in that he wants to play 433 but the two wide players just don’t contribute enough going forward or tracking back - tonight I though El Ghazi was adequate but the compete lack of pace in Jota is a weak link
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Arsey on September 16, 2019, 11:50:59 PM
Some harsh comments. some need to get a reality check.  We made a very decent West Ham side look very ordinary. We didn’t create much but had the best chances.  They have some very good players. Rice was very good and Noble was excellent but he definitely should have been sent off.

Football is about tiny margins (and huge amounts of luck). Had Jack smacked home the chance at the very end the comments on here would be massively different.

Defensively we were excellent (again). Apart from a few sloppy passes Marvellous had a cracking debut.

Jota didn’t do much and it was a shame Trez was unavailable. El Ghazi looked okay in the first half and got forward well and had some of our best chances. Second half he looked gone. I think he would be a decent impact substitute but it’s an area we need to look to improve in Jan.

The result is a little disappointing but there was a lot to be positive about.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: tomd2103 on September 16, 2019, 11:51:22 PM
Didn't think it was too bad tonight against a decent outfit who should finish in the top half.  Yes, we gave the ball away too many times, especially in our own third of the pitch in the first half, but I thought we worked hard a played well in patches.

Agree with the comments about the formation - it isn't really working.  Think we need to get Grealish further forward and perhaps get McGinn a bit closer to Wesley as well. A few sloppy passes aside, I thought a Marvellous did OK and Engels and Mings are forming a solid partnership with the steadying influence of Heaton behind them.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: J on September 16, 2019, 11:54:07 PM
Frustrating but not disastrous.  Odd how we fell apart once they went down to 10 men.  We looked tired, which perhaps explains the multiple misplaced passes towards the end.

Positives: Nakamba had a decent debut,  the defence didn't give them a clear chance on goal, we created the clearer chances, Guilbert looked quick and committed, Grealish looked good first half.

Less positive:  Tempo still too slow,  way too many sloppy passes, neither winger much cop, centre forward a bit isolated and missed two free headers even if one was offside, Taylor, whilst ok defensively, is useless when attacking, a seeming reluctance to have a pop (Taylor and Grealish had sight of goal second half and bottled it), Jota looks lightweight, a bit slow and very one-footed,  struggling against 10 men.

All in all we don't look a bad team, certainly nothing like 3-4 years ago, we maybe need a bit more time for players to bed in and for things to click.  And maybe Dean needs to re-think the formation.

Cant agree with the bit about Nakamba. Gave the ball away numerous times under little pressure. Hopefully was just a bit nervous on his debut.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2019, 11:55:05 PM
I can say “I was there”...you don’t often see 2 winners on Prize Where It Lies...magical stuff!
Absolutely the best match ever. I have videoed it and might load it up on my Youtube channel.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Arsey on September 16, 2019, 11:56:23 PM
Dean takes some of the blame for me, at times we had 5 players passing the ball around on the half way line with only one WHU player in the same postcode.

We really needed to think that fortune favours the brave and push a couple of players forward, and keep the ball better.

Frustrating, and not the mentality I expected.

I think that is pretty unfair. We did push on in the last 10min especially after Davis came on.

Even Mings and Engels pushed forward and at times we had every outfield player in their half. West Ham dropped deeper and deeper and resorted to lumping long balls forward
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 11:57:30 PM
Defence looks really solid. I love watching Engels. There was one tackle where he got his foot the other side of a player and came through/around him with the ball. How he did it without conceding a foul is beyond me.

Guilbert wasn’t his best but has this amazing knack of getting caught out and dealing with his own mess via sprinting and last ditch tackling.

And a shout out to Taylor who has been a really capable stand in, not at all exposed against some quality players like I thought he would be.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: charleeco7 on September 16, 2019, 11:59:26 PM
Bloody hell, having finally got home I read this thread and thought we’d lost. The kit stealers are a decent team who haven’t lost this season. We had the better chances, Wesley should have scored and I can’t recall a hen testing Heaton at all.
We struggled late on as they were knackered.
I thought Marvelous looked promising and the defence superb. We all knew the front line would be a problem but we will get there.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: MalcolmP on September 17, 2019, 12:00:49 AM
That second half was utter garbage. I'm struggling to find someone who had a good game...Engels, McGinn, Heaton maybe ?

Wesley, Jack, Guilbert and El Ghazi were poor.
Guilbert poor? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 did you go to the game?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on September 17, 2019, 12:01:40 AM
Defence looks really solid. I love watching Engels. There was one tackle where he got his foot the other side of a player and came through/around him with the ball. How he did it without conceding a foul is beyond me.

Guilbert wasn’t his best but has this amazing knack of getting caught out and dealing with his own mess via sprinting and last ditch tackling.

And a shout out to Taylor who has been a really capable stand in, not at all exposed against some quality players like I thought he would be.

He offers absolutely nothing going forward. Less than my gran . Is Targett injured? if not he must be bobbins not to get a game
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 12:05:14 AM
Bloody hell, having finally got home I read this thread and thought we’d lost. The kit stealers are a decent team who haven’t lost this season.

Apart from losing 0-5 on the opening day.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 17, 2019, 12:08:22 AM
I was hoping he would bring Hourihane on for the last thirty minutes.

me too. The times Hourihane has come up with a goal when we havent looked like scoring.   Im suprised he wasnt brought on .
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: MalcolmP on September 17, 2019, 12:10:19 AM
Frustrating but not disastrous.  Odd how we fell apart once they went down to 10 men.  We looked tired, which perhaps explains the multiple misplaced passes towards the end.

Positives: Nakamba had a decent debut,  the defence didn't give them a clear chance on goal, we created the clearer chances, Guilbert looked quick and committed, Grealish looked good first half.

Less positive:  Tempo still too slow,  way too many sloppy passes, neither winger much cop, centre forward a bit isolated and missed two free headers even if one was offside, Taylor, whilst ok defensively, is useless when attacking, a seeming reluctance to have a pop (Taylor and Grealish had sight of goal second half and bottled it), Jota looks lightweight, a bit slow and very one-footed,  struggling against 10 men.

All in all we don't look a bad team, certainly nothing like 3-4 years ago, we maybe need a bit more time for players to bed in and for things to click.  And maybe Dean needs to re-think the formation.

Cant agree with the bit about Nakamba. Gave the ball away numerous times under little pressure. Hopefully was just a bit nervous on his debut.
  Nakamba gave the ball away about 3 times but on 2 of those he quickly got back and  won the ball back. He had a very good game  and was probably the difference to winning a point or losing the game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: OzVilla on September 17, 2019, 12:12:35 AM
Didn't stretch them enough, kept coming inside to an already congested area, Wesley way too isolated and lacks presence for a big lad.  Grealish had a poor night as did ElGhazi.

Defence looked sound, thought they looked far more dangerous than us especially when they went down to 10 and stretched us far more.  Smith got out coached at 11 v 10 for me.  Still a point isn't the worst result, in fairness we deserved no more.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2019, 12:15:58 AM
Over 42000 in the ground. Well done to all of us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 12:16:04 AM
Highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11811740/villa-cant-break-down-10-man-hammers)
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: D.boy on September 17, 2019, 12:16:59 AM
Final ball was very poor. Wes was found offside too many times. Why are we always gash whenever we are against 10 men.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Monty on September 17, 2019, 12:17:36 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:24:10 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.

The passing and crossing in the second half was absolutely abysmal.  I can't recall a game where we made so many sloppy, unforced errors.  The second half was really poor almost from start to finish.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 12:24:33 AM
I was hoping he would bring Hourihane on for the last thirty minutes.

me too. The times Hourihane has come up with a goal when we havent looked like scoring.   Im suprised he wasnt brought on .

Lansbury wouldn't have been a bad shout either considering he finished well for the disallowed goal at Palace.

Didn't get the swapping DMs sub (AEM was made just before red card).
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: tomd2103 on September 17, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
Frustrating but not disastrous.  Odd how we fell apart once they went down to 10 men.  We looked tired, which perhaps explains the multiple misplaced passes towards the end.

Positives: Nakamba had a decent debut,  the defence didn't give them a clear chance on goal, we created the clearer chances, Guilbert looked quick and committed, Grealish looked good first half.

Less positive:  Tempo still too slow,  way too many sloppy passes, neither winger much cop, centre forward a bit isolated and missed two free headers even if one was offside, Taylor, whilst ok defensively, is useless when attacking, a seeming reluctance to have a pop (Taylor and Grealish had sight of goal second half and bottled it), Jota looks lightweight, a bit slow and very one-footed,  struggling against 10 men.

All in all we don't look a bad team, certainly nothing like 3-4 years ago, we maybe need a bit more time for players to bed in and for things to click.  And maybe Dean needs to re-think the formation.

Cant agree with the bit about Nakamba. Gave the ball away numerous times under little pressure. Hopefully was just a bit nervous on his debut.
  Nakamba gave the ball away about 3 times but on 2 of those he quickly got back and  won the ball back. He had a very good game  and was probably the difference to winning a point or losing the game.

Thought it was a few more times than that and some of them were in quite dangerous positions in our own half.  Despite that, he did look pretty promising though.  Very athletic and mobile, got stuck in and looked pretty comfortable on the ball. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 12:33:10 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.

The passing and crossing in the second half was absolutely abysmal.  I can't recall a game where we made so many sloppy, unforced errors.  The second half was really poor almost from start to finish.

I think Monty's general point is it's actually a really good quality premier league this year.

For all the money we've spent West Ham had tonight in final third Felipe Anderson (signed for 36m and 2 caps for Brazil) Lanzini (would've been in Argentina world cup squad but did his ACL just before the tournament), Yarmolenko (81 caps for the Ukraine and cost  15m) and Haller who's already scored 3 in 3 before tonight. They signed him for club record 45m.

They also put on Pablo Fornals who played very well in the under 21 tournament this summer and has 2 caps for the full Spain team. Signed for 24m.

"West Ham's much-hyped attacking quartet of Haller, Andriy Yarmolenko, Manuel Lanzini and Felipe Anderson struggled to create many opportunities.

Mark Noble's seventh-minute snap shot, which was straight at goalkeeper Tom Heaton, proved to be their only shot on target."

There are positives. Defensively we're looking pretty good now given Everton's 100m attacking 4 didn't create much against us either until late in the game.

Any team that stays up against the odds usually has a strong defensive core. Burnley, Stoke and Brighton all gone down that route in the last decade rolling out the clean sheets.

The scoring bit is the problem.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:34:42 AM
Marvelous made a couple of bad passes early on, but grew into the game I thought, and to his credit looked up to speed with the Premier League.  I think Luiz has more quality on the ball, but Nakamba more physical presence.  Can definitely see that there'll be games that suit one or the other more.  On that point, Luiz could have come on earlier, as I think his better range of passing might have helped unpick West Ham a bit better.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:36:52 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.

The passing and crossing in the second half was absolutely abysmal.  I can't recall a game where we made so many sloppy, unforced errors.  The second half was really poor almost from start to finish.

I think Monty's general point is it's actually a really good quality premier league this year.

For all the money we've spent West Ham had tonight in final third Felipe Anderson (signed for 36m and 2 caps for Brazil) Lanzini (would've been in Argentina world cup squad but did his ACL just before the tournament), Yarmolenko (81 caps for the Ukraine and cost  15m) and Haller who's already scored 3 in 3 before tonight. They signed him for club record 45m.

They also put on Pablo Fornals who played very well in the under 21 tournament this summer and has 2 caps for the full Spain team. Signed for 24m.

"West Ham's much-hyped attacking quartet of Haller, Andriy Yarmolenko, Manuel Lanzini and Felipe Anderson struggled to create many opportunities.

Mark Noble's seventh-minute snap shot, which was straight at goalkeeper Tom Heaton, proved to be their only shot on target."

There are positives. Defensively we're looking pretty good now given Everton's 100m attacking 4 didn't create much against us either until late in the game.

Any team that stays up against the odds usually has a strong defensive core. Burnley, Stoke and Brighton all gone down that route in the last decade rolling out the clean sheets.

The scoring bit is the problem.

I don't disagree that West Ham are a good team, but our players were just kicking the ball into touch when under no pressure whatsoever, and having a man advantage.  That was the disappointing part of tonight.  Jack especially was very wasteful.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 12:43:01 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.

The passing and crossing in the second half was absolutely abysmal.  I can't recall a game where we made so many sloppy, unforced errors.  The second half was really poor almost from start to finish.

I think Monty's general point is it's actually a really good quality premier league this year.

For all the money we've spent West Ham had tonight in final third Felipe Anderson (signed for 36m and 2 caps for Brazil) Lanzini (would've been in Argentina world cup squad but did his ACL just before the tournament), Yarmolenko (81 caps for the Ukraine and cost  15m) and Haller who's already scored 3 in 3 before tonight. They signed him for club record 45m.

They also put on Pablo Fornals who played very well in the under 21 tournament this summer and has 2 caps for the full Spain team. Signed for 24m.

"West Ham's much-hyped attacking quartet of Haller, Andriy Yarmolenko, Manuel Lanzini and Felipe Anderson struggled to create many opportunities.

Mark Noble's seventh-minute snap shot, which was straight at goalkeeper Tom Heaton, proved to be their only shot on target."

There are positives. Defensively we're looking pretty good now given Everton's 100m attacking 4 didn't create much against us either until late in the game.

Any team that stays up against the odds usually has a strong defensive core. Burnley, Stoke and Brighton all gone down that route in the last decade rolling out the clean sheets.

The scoring bit is the problem.

I don't disagree that West Ham are a good team, but our players were just kicking the ball into touch when under no pressure whatsoever, and having a man advantage.  That was the disappointing part of tonight.  Jack especially was very wasteful.

The last twenty were poor, no doubt. We are often clueless playing against 10 men so it's nothing new when you think we weren't even taking advantage of it in the championship.

Add in Brunt getting sent off in the play offs and we couldn't score a goal against 10 men WBA in the whole of extra time period.

It's just something we're frustratingly really bad at under countless managers down the years.

Our first half performance was good.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 12:44:35 AM
Marvelous made a couple of bad passes early on, but grew into the game I thought, and to his credit looked up to speed with the Premier League.  I think Luiz has more quality on the ball, but Nakamba more physical presence.  Can definitely see that there'll be games that suit one or the other more.  On that point, Luiz could have come on earlier, as I think his better range of passing might have helped unpick West Ham a bit better.

Could be worth looking into a diamond midfield v Arsenal. With out lack of quality in final third it's pretty difficult to justify playing three of them really so would rather load central midfield more and try to give more licence for Grealish and McGinn to get forward.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:45:06 AM
We were OK first half, but West Ham still had 60% possession.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Flin5tone on September 17, 2019, 12:51:44 AM
What on earth happened with Mings and El Ghazi in the first half?, looked like Mings went OTT on Anwar when he'd done nothing wrong?


As for the game, I thought it was entertaining and enjoyed it but some of the passing was absolutely horrific. Dean Smith messed up tonight, made the wrong changes and left it far too late, also he needs to look at playing a different formation, we looked better when Davies was on the pitch. Wesley should be fined for his Dive, an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:53:15 AM
What on earth happened with Mings and El Ghazi in the first half?, looked like Mings went OTT on Anward when he'd done nothing wrong?


As for the game, I thought it was entertaining and enjoyed it but some of the passing was absolutely horrific. Dean Smith messed up tonight, made the wrong changes and left it far too late, also he needs to look at playing a different formation, we looked better when Davies was on the pitch. Wesley should be fined for his Dive, an embarrassment.


Mings rightly said something to El Ghazi (who was shit all night) about his lack of tracking back.  El Ghazi took it badly and shoved his head towards Mings.  I've seen players sent off for that sort of thing.

Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 12:55:49 AM
AEG was slow in tracking a runner who got in a cross that Mings put out for a corner. I don't mind players giving each other a bollocking but not the head clashing, I think AEG was quite lucky not to get a red, I reckon there's a good chance he'd have got one if he'd done that to an opposition player.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Flin5tone on September 17, 2019, 12:56:31 AM
It seemed like Taylor was at fault to me and TM went a bit OTT, either way not something you want to see.

Something needs to change, the effort is there you can't fault that at all and the games are enjoyable to watch but goals win games and I really can't see us getting many at the moment.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 12:59:30 AM
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11811702/mings-el-ghazis-heated-exchange
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 01:09:10 AM
AEG was slow in tracking a runner who got in a cross that Mings put out for a corner. I don't mind players giving each other a bollocking but not the head clashing, I think AEG was quite lucky not to get a red, I reckon there's a good chance he'd have got one if he'd done that to an opposition player.

What are actually the rules regarding violent conduct if you do it to your own players? I remember years back there was disagreement between I think Southampton keeper who slapped one of his defenders and the Holte just laughed at it and ref gave a quick talk and let it go.

Then you have more extreme case of Bowyer-Dyer when both got reds. Also years ago Batty and Le Saux having a fight while at Blackburn, can't remember if either got sent off.

As much as the Bournemouth defeat was self inflicted, having a player get a red card for aggressive play towards a team mate would've topped that. Strong opinions are fine but we need to cut it out on the field.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 01:11:36 AM
Violent conduct is violent conduct, doesn't matter who it's aimed at.  He's an idiot.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 17, 2019, 01:26:00 AM
Grealish is not the player that he or we think he is.

For the first time tonight, I actually think he is. Saying that, if Hutton or Taylor had given the ball away the way Jack did, they'd never play for us again. Jack was brilliant and at the same time shocking. I'd prefer to move on from tonight. England? You're havin' a laugh. Half decent Villa player? It's there.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ROBBO on September 17, 2019, 02:06:45 AM
If you watch the replay you will see that Grealish was ball watching and left El Ghazi with two players to mind and he got stuck between the two of them. Last season I commented how JG slows down our forward movement and it was glaring tonight very rarely does he play through balls, he will be of more use playing the traditional inside forward role getting closer to the opposition goal.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Matt C on September 17, 2019, 05:20:10 AM
Given the magnitude of the task, credit where credit is due, defensively we look very decent. Decent home debut from Marvelous, Guilbert and Engels have slotted in very well and I’ve seen enough to suggest Grealish & McGinn can make an impact at this level.

The problem lies up front where we just don’t carry anywhere near enough of a threat. Wesley needs time we just don’t have and Jota and El Ghazi don’t look like they’re going to cut it (at the moment). Getting Jack on the ball further up the field more often will help but just hard to see where the goals are coming from at the moment and that’s a bit of a problem.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Jon Crofts on September 17, 2019, 06:52:00 AM
Right now our front 3 are no better than they were in The Championship simple as that.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: sid1964 on September 17, 2019, 06:55:23 AM
For me we need a David Platt type of footballer who can break into the box and get goals and play off Wesley.

Both McGinn and Grealish play too deep and have to cover too much ground to get into the penalty area regularly.

Also when we do get into a decent crossing position we seem to rush the pass or cross, they need to just slow down and take there time and look for a man, rather than just hoping that it will find a Villa player.

Not a game to live long in the memory.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2019, 07:04:36 AM
I don't think we played that badly really even if at times we looked a bit predictable. We needed something different from the bench up front but all we had was Davis. Wesley looks as if he's going to need a season to settle in so the sooner Kodjia comes back and offers us something else the better. Overall, disappointing not to get the three points but glad we didn't lose.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 17, 2019, 07:10:08 AM
We look star struck at the moment,  shouldn't be the case for up to now apart from Spurs we have had on paper the better 11.  A lot of ball given away last night. 

As for Wesley, needs a  massive hoof up his backside - all round play would struggle in the championship.  Turning to Jota gave his all, just his all like at Palace simply not good enough.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 17, 2019, 07:41:05 AM
Didn't get the swapping DMs sub (AEM was made just before red card).

I’d guess that as it was his first PL start that was always going to be something likely, also with them all wearing GPS trackers now, the analysts might have picked up that his performance had dropped.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: OzVilla on September 17, 2019, 07:44:39 AM
This is where Deano needs to show some flexibility with formations.  I think Arsenal away is a good game to try something like a 4-2-2-1-1.  Hourihane in there for his set piece threat and get the big lads up, play Grealish higher up the field and look to win free kicks. Be compact and we can nick something there.

                  Heaton

      Fred - Engels - Mings - Taylor

          Marvelous - Douglas Luis

         McGinn - Hourihane

                 Grealish

                 Wesley
 
       
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2019, 07:55:55 AM
OzVilla, roughly my thiniking.
We had moments of real class last night but are being undone by a stretched formation and some poor individual errors of occasional poor passing and first-touch. But it's the 2-winger game which is killing us, because it is stretching our players and our wingers aren't good enough at this level.
Play 4-2-3-1 and most of the issues are addressed.
With Marvelous (or Hourihane) and Luis palying behind Grealish, McGinn and Jota who play in aupport of Wesley, we get a more compact and attacking set-up which exploits the strengths of all the players involved - and, we can get Guilbert in a more attacking role, going to an effective three at the back wehn we  are in possession.. the current set-up fails to do that and, furthermore, leaves Wesley stranded and Grealish and McGinn knackered after 60-70 minutes.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: brian green on September 17, 2019, 07:56:25 AM
Just home.  Not as gloomy as most.  The Premiership was always going to be hard.  Plenty of positives to take from that game.  Plenty of negatives too.  I agree with Jon.  On all the evidence so far the front three is where we have not improved from last season.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: curlytailavfc on September 17, 2019, 07:58:12 AM
i fell asleep after 30 mins
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: CT on September 17, 2019, 08:08:16 AM
I thought defensively and in midfield we looked pretty good.

The issue for me was the front three. Wesley didn't do much but was feeding off scraps as Jota and AEG offered virtually no threat at all.

AEG looked like he never recovered from the bollocking Mings gave him, he looked scared and constantly refused to run at the full back, opting to just stand on the touchline and knock it back to someone else. He did it once near the end, and by magic, the West Ham defence opened up and the gaps appeared.

The big positive was that we didn't lose. You could just see them nicking one on the break at the end, but we held really firm.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Ads on September 17, 2019, 08:28:36 AM
Thought we played defensively well but lacked a little in transition which allowed Rice to smother us a bit.

Grealish is too deep and the wingers didn't impress. Only Grealish put in a dangerous ball for Wesley and he should have scored.

Wesley isn't doing enough for me, but the midfield arent creating enough for him either.

I would like a formation switch and away at Arsenal might necessitate that.

Hopefully we can still be in touch in January and pick up a forward to add more of a threat up front.

That said  for all West Ham fans sage remarks about how "desperately poor we are", we were the better side and created chances, whereas they were toothless and crested nothing. The only threat posed was the last 5 where the game opened up for them to counter.

Noble should have walked. It was an outrageous dive and I wonder what the point of VAR is.

We need some tinkering up front to get men closer to Wesley or we will struggle to create enough good opportunities.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Chris Smith on September 17, 2019, 08:34:40 AM
Against a strong, well organised side I thought we made the better chances but our finishing let us down. I am hoping that doesn’t become the story of the season.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 17, 2019, 08:35:14 AM
Engels was pretty much faultless. Again.

What a gem of a signing he's turning out to be.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: TheMalandro on September 17, 2019, 08:35:17 AM
Should have won, but once they had the man sent off they stopped in their own half, denied us or themselves any space, and the odds on the draw shot up.

Overall I'm surprised to see people complaining about the quality. I actually thought everything - passing, pressing, defensive shape, decision making - was of high standard, with the exception of actually finishing the bloody chances. It's an odd division, with ten teams capable of finishing between tenth and bottom, and none of them, not even Newcastle, are what I'd call bad. Three pretty good sides will go down this year, and while we might well be one of them it is nice to actually have a pretty good side.

The passing and crossing in the second half was absolutely abysmal.  I can't recall a game where we made so many sloppy, unforced errors.  The second half was really poor almost from start to finish.

That's the game I watched.

Dire.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: simboy on September 17, 2019, 08:54:15 AM
On the whole I agree with Ads. A Defence that never really looked under threat, Guilbert dealt with their main attacking threat  well, and the rest of the defence did their bit against a decent side going forward. Taylor got overloaded a few times but more to do with those in front not tracking back than his defensive abilities, despite his fine effort to score and own goal.

Our midfield is after more time than they actually have playing at this level. It's pass and move in one motion not two or three touches and then pass, consider the move and then go. The transition from second division to this league will take time.

As for big Wes, he was isolated for large parts of he game. If the ball sticks to him we need to be around running off him. Easy for us to say from the stands I suppose. Wesley's miss was poor but every pundit was raving about Haller and his miss first half was arguably even easier. So it happens.

 Finally, apologies to anyone near me offended by my double barrel tirade on about 70 minutes at the bloke behind me who just constantly rubbishes Taylor [except for the bloke it was aimed at obviously]. I am not great fan of Taylor's but defensively he has done better than ok this year, hes not good going forward I accept but to consistently go on an on and on and on and .... about him really got to me. I usually keep calm, take the money off my son after the "time of the fist anti Taylor comment" [2 minutes 48 seconds, second touch]. Not this time.

     
 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 17, 2019, 09:04:30 AM
Against a strong, well organised side I thought we made the better chances but our finishing let us down. I am hoping that doesn’t become the story of the season.

Yep, agree with that. 

West Ham are a decent side and have that Premiership nous that we haven't fully acquired as yet.  We need to sharpen up and to cut out the sloppiness.  We don't get the time on the ball we did in the Championship hence the sloppiness.

I see a lot of people on here having a go at Grealish. Apart from a few poor passes I thought he had a good game and as usual anything good we did came through him.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: mr underhill on September 17, 2019, 09:11:04 AM
Defensively we look very good but I'm not convinced by midfield as it is or the front three, maybe a change of formation would do the trick. As others have said, we should have invested more in our attacking options in the summer and imo sacrificed luxuries like Konsa.  in fact, I'm not wholly convinced by Terz, Jota or Wesley.On the way home I was listening unwisely to Talkshite and that cnunt Cundy was mouthing off again about how Grealish would only become a proper England contender if he joined a better club. People generally in the media have very little that is positive to say about us, which pisses me off enormously. finally where is Targett? He seems to have disappeared totally.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: brian green on September 17, 2019, 09:30:29 AM
Off? Targett?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: CJ on September 17, 2019, 09:38:20 AM
I thought the first half was pretty entertaining, but the second half we were pretty poor with repetitive sloppy passing. 

Thought Deano got the line up wrong playing both El Ghazi and Jota, and he should have shored the midfield up at half time with either Hourihane or Luiz for Jota, who was too lightweight and largely ineffective.

Liked the look of Marvelous, and SJM was looked like he'd had new batteries fitted, but all in all it was pretty meh, and a point was fair given that either team could have scored near the end.

Anywhere to see the Mark Noble dive? People who went down to watch it at half time said it was pretty outrageous and he should have had a second yellow.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: CJ on September 17, 2019, 09:43:13 AM
Defensively we look very good but I'm not convinced by midfield as it is or the front three, maybe a change of formation would do the trick. As others have said, we should have invested more in our attacking options in the summer and imo sacrificed luxuries like Konsa.  in fact, I'm not wholly convinced by Terz, Jota or Wesley.On the way home I was listening unwisely to Talkshite and that cnunt Cundy was mouthing off again about how Grealish would only become a proper England contender if he joined a better club. People generally in the media have very little that is positive to say about us, which pisses me off enormously. finally where is Targett? He seems to have disappeared totally.

Injured. Returned to training end of last week and should be available for the Arsenal game
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: RussellC on September 17, 2019, 09:53:52 AM
I would like a formation switch and away at Arsenal might necessitate that.

Smith spoke in the summer about having the option to play 3 at the back with the players in the squad now, and with our wide options being so ineffective this seems like the prefect time to try it. Konsa, Engels and Mings should be a cohesive back 3, Guilbert should be comfortable as a wing-back, and it gives us the options to solidify the midfield, get Grealish further up the pitch and also get a striker-partner in for Wes. I wonder if Trez could play in that central-role, as Keinan would be too similar a player?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: simboy on September 17, 2019, 10:01:05 AM
Targett is recovering from a hamstring injury

Konsa is a very astute bit of business. he's English, he's a ball playing centre half, 21 years of age and if slab head Maguire is anything to go by half a good season and he's worth huge money with the English premium ...
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ktvillan on September 17, 2019, 10:04:20 AM
Frustrating but not disastrous.  Odd how we fell apart once they went down to 10 men.  We looked tired, which perhaps explains the multiple misplaced passes towards the end.

Positives: Nakamba had a decent debut,  the defence didn't give them a clear chance on goal, we created the clearer chances, Guilbert looked quick and committed, Grealish looked good first half.

Less positive:  Tempo still too slow,  way too many sloppy passes, neither winger much cop, centre forward a bit isolated and missed two free headers even if one was offside, Taylor, whilst ok defensively, is useless when attacking, a seeming reluctance to have a pop (Taylor and Grealish had sight of goal second half and bottled it), Jota looks lightweight, a bit slow and very one-footed,  struggling against 10 men.

All in all we don't look a bad team, certainly nothing like 3-4 years ago, we maybe need a bit more time for players to bed in and for things to click.  And maybe Dean needs to re-think the formation.

Cant agree with the bit about Nakamba. Gave the ball away numerous times under little pressure. Hopefully was just a bit nervous on his debut.

Eh?  He had one little patch first half where he was sloppy with a couple of passses, then at the end when there was a communal give the ball away party but apart from that I thought he played really well, broke up a number of attacks especially second half, and brought the ball forward well. 

For those criticising Grealish, I think they are basing the whole performance on the last 25-30 minutes, where admittedly he was poor, bu so were most of them.  I've not really bought into the hype around him but up to then he's caused Spam a lot of problems and created a fair few chances for us.  Harsh to say he was crap.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Monty on September 17, 2019, 10:35:38 AM
When I say the standard of the passing was high (and it did get sloppier when they went down to ten) I mean you have to factor in the quality of the pressing and the defending too. There were plenty of balls that, against lesser opposition, would've been on target and incisive but that were cut out by good positioning and anticipation. This division is a proper challenge.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 10:55:54 AM
Violent conduct is violent conduct, doesn't matter who it's aimed at.  He's an idiot.

Only players I can remember actually getting sent off for it were the Bowyer-Dyer fight.

Just mentioned on radio Adebayor and Bendtner had a fight in an Arsenal game and neither were sent off.

"Arsenal were 4-1 down to fierce rivals Tottenham, a touch paper which would then be lit by Arsene Wenger's strikers.

Adebayor attempted to headbutt the Dane and later revealed his aggression was stimulated due to a perceived lack of respect.  "

So similar by sounds of it, no red card issued.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 17, 2019, 11:28:42 AM
Defensively sound and Marvelous had a good debut. I'd favour him ahead of Luiz as dm. Away from home playing both might be an option but as we're defensively sound I would only play 1 of them at home. Our wingers are not performing and leaving Wes isolated. A change of formation is needed to 4-1-3-2 for home games and perhaps 4-2-3-1 for aways. In home games, if he's available I'd have Trez playing off Wes.
Last night our dead ball routines were awful and clearly we are missing Conor's free kicks, corner kicks and goals.
If Jack can get booked for simulation when he didn't dive, why didn't noble get his second booking when he clearly dived? Answer-sh-t refs. I don't like to see my own players fighting, but Mings and El Ghazi both showed they cared and if our basket case players of 2016 had shown a bit more grit between each other we may not have got relegated. I was impressed with the way both shook hands immediately at the resulting corner, missed totally by the ref who then proceeded to talk to both, long after the initial squirmish. Regarding west spam, I thought Bournemouth were better. They offered nothing and were well marshalled by our defense. Dean 4-3-3 isn't working as we don't have the forward players to make it work. A re-think is needed.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Small Rodent on September 17, 2019, 11:34:56 AM
The attack is slightly concerning. Get rid of one winger, push Grealish forward and stick Hourihane or Luiz in the midfield gap.

Our defence was very good.

Laughing at some WHU fans on post-match news threads deriding Villa. Er...you only took a point from us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: PeterWithe on September 17, 2019, 11:36:24 AM
West Ham are a decent side and have that Premiership nous that we haven't fully acquired as yet. 

Yes, I thought they were so much better at the decisions of when to committ men forward, when to press and when to get behind the ball.

On the plus side, we will get better at that with every game
Title: OpRe: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: RichardBatchelor on September 17, 2019, 11:44:31 AM
Thought it was ok up to the red card. The problem we have is although we’re competitive there are no crap teams and hardly any dodgy managers now in this league.

Positives. Closing down West Ham when shaping to shoot. This we did magnificently. Mings MOM, and Marvelous, while not quite marvellous, was ace. Grealish first half, Engels, general defensive play and a handful of attacking forays. Overall average. Move on to next game ...
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Richard E on September 17, 2019, 11:45:19 AM
West Ham fans were singing that Jack is just a ‘sh1t Mark Noble.’

 I thought Mark Noble had the ‘sh1t Mark Noble’ title sewn up already.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2019, 11:53:48 AM
His diving is even sh*tter.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2019, 12:41:30 PM
We did enough in the first half to win this match. It was obvious from about 15 minutes that West Ham came for a draw. Second half was disappointing particularly the last 25 minutes against 10 men. We were actually quite shambolic in that period. No idea, no coherency, zero composure and therefore no end result. We have failed the test of 10 men twice. Against Palace went down to 10 and lost the match and now this. We also "lost it" after Spurs equalised. We are obviously not a confident team at this level yet and  Dean and Co need to do most work on that aspect. If can can grow we will survive.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: mattjpa on September 17, 2019, 12:41:39 PM
Some musings; First on West Ham. An expensive, established team in fine form have been nullified and rendered toothless by a very good defensive performance by us.  Despite grumblings, this is a massive positive, Heaton was completely untroubled. Declan Rice stood out like a beacon, he is a very good footballer.
On to us; We played well first half BUT as with any team of our level, we have 2/3 outstanding players and you need at least one of them to be on top form, we did not have that. Jack was out of sorts and kept dropping too deep for my liking. McGinn was 100mph as always but it was all a bit "running down blind alleys". Wes is getting pelters but his general hold up play was actually quite good, but somehow he was still too isolated, Our MF never seemed to support the attack in force.
AEG was a bit rubbish but despite Neil Taylor being excellent defensively, he doesn't give defenders a great deal to think about on offense - its generally down to AEG to work something on his own.

My overriding feeling after that is that we had too many unforced errors, really sloppy passing - Nakamba, Grealish, Guilbert, McGinn were all guilty. When they went down to 10 men the game was calling out for Lansbury and Hourihane - we should have loaded the MF and dominated them allowing 2-3 of them to break into the box on every attack - poor subs by DS im afraid.

Next game I really think we need to change the system slightly and get a couple of men closer to Wes in and around the box.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: JJ-AV on September 17, 2019, 01:16:17 PM
Not knocking the recruitment and not saying that Trez and Wes are flops, but we're probably 4 points down due to them not hitting the ground running.

We need them to improve, if they don't it'll be a struggle until January when we need a wide-man and a centre forward. I'm sure we've got money so I'm not concerned, and our defence will keep us in games but losing points before we run in to the big boys is frustrating.

The likes of Batshauyi and Demari Gray might be available in Jan on short-term deals so I'm sure there's scope.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 01:19:59 PM
Not knocking the recruitment and not saying that Trez and Wes are flops, but we're probably 4 points down due to them not hitting the ground running.

We need them to improve, if they don't it'll be a struggle until January when we need a wide-man and a centre forward. I'm sure we've got money so I'm not concerned, and our defence will keep us in games but losing points before we run in to the big boys is frustrating.

The likes of Batshauyi and Demari Gray might be available in Jan on short-term deals so I'm sure there's scope.

I'd definitely be up for getting Gray if Leicester were prepared to let him go.  A very good player on the few times I've seen them play.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: darren woolley on September 17, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Like others have said the final ball needs improving and cut out the sloppy passes but I think we will be Ok come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 01:39:31 PM
Although I am frustrated that we didn't get a goal, I really enjoyed the match last night.

We definitely tried to put West Ham under pressure, love seeing Villa attacking towards the Holte with the crowd roaring and putting teams under pressure and was great to see more of that last night for the first time this season.  West Ham came and played like they were wary of what we can do which is exactly the perception we need to be creating rather than having teams turn up thinking they can boss us at our own ground.  Positive things.

Nakamba settled for the second half and retained the ball a lot better, will be interesting how he now progresses and great that again our strength in depth allowed us to swap someone out who needed a rest after international duty.  We kept Heaton relatively trouble-free for 90 minutes, even despite a few pacey counter attacks when we were pressing forward, so with another clean sheet at home it's sending the right message.

We still have improvements to make.  I felt that we didn't find Wesley enough to get him into the game, and when we brought Davis on we didn't get the ball in the box often enough to make use of our two big strikers.  I think a few players felt the pressure and the expectancy and the frustration in the air and we became a bit desperate to get the goal we all craved which led to missed opportunities and losing the ball too often.

There's definitely more to come from this side, you get the feeling that like a striker who needs a goal, we just need that bit of luck and the right result to build us up that confidence that we can kick on with.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Rudy65 on September 17, 2019, 01:49:58 PM
This is where Deano needs to show some flexibility with formations.  I think Arsenal away is a good game to try something like a 4-2-2-1-1.  Hourihane in there for his set piece threat and get the big lads up, play Grealish higher up the field and look to win free kicks. Be compact and we can nick something there.

                  Heaton

      Fred - Engels - Mings - Taylor

          Marvelous - Douglas Luis

         McGinn - Hourihane

                 Grealish

                 Wesley
 
     

no width
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: fbriai on September 17, 2019, 01:53:25 PM
Dogtanian has articulated my thoughts perfectly. I salute you, Sir.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 17, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
Heaton- Engels - Mings  dont think i would swap them for any other 3 in the prem they have settled in and look solid

Guilbert -  love this lad and he will only get better, we have a true Villa star on our hands here

Taylor - did ok but needs an up-grade , in the same way Elmo did ok but we needed someone who offered more and Guibert came in and we look better for it,
don't know if that's Target, if not it was a lot of money to pay for someone who's no improvement on Taylor

Grealish - Mcginn - heartbeat of the villa side, Jacks not reached his heights yet but he is still instrumental in everything we do going forward,
Mcginn is just Mcginn best iv'e seen since Des Bremner, no higher praise than that

Doug - Marvo -  play them both, i reckon Doug especially would be just as creative as one of our wide players

El Ghazi- Jota - Trez-  not overly impressed with any of them so far, all a bit samey in there performances, but its early days for Trez
 hopefully one will come through to be a more dangerous player in the wide areas

Wesley - Davis -   not worried about them if we get the shape right they will score the goals

i also agree with Dogtanians post,
enjoyed the game and we are a totally different team from the last time we played in this league

i was a bit disappointed in the sub, bringing on Elmo looked a bit like we were playing for a draw,
 then the fella got sent off
so we are playing against 10 men with both Elmo and Taylor in our 11,
 we needed to get Davis or at least Hourahane on straight away put pressure on them and give it a right go
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Bad English on September 17, 2019, 04:12:26 PM
I was really disappointed that we weren't capable of scoring at home against ten men. However, looking back at the solid defensive display and the discernible, if raw, talent that we have on the pitch I have decided to be positive and not wet my pants for the moment.

I was not impressed with the AEG / Mings handbags though.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Scovilla on September 17, 2019, 04:24:05 PM
This is where Deano needs to show some flexibility with formations.  I think Arsenal away is a good game to try something like a 4-2-2-1-1.  Hourihane in there for his set piece threat and get the big lads up, play Grealish higher up the field and look to win free kicks. Be compact and we can nick something there.

                  Heaton

      Fred - Engels - Mings - Taylor

          Marvelous - Douglas Luis

         McGinn - Hourihane

                 Grealish

                 Wesley
 
     

no width

The width has got to come from the left and right backs. Guilbert can do it not sure about Taylor.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: gpbarr on September 17, 2019, 04:39:57 PM
If Dean plays one of Marvelous, Luiz, Conor against Arsenal, then I will start to be concerned he isn't understanding that you have to control midfield in this league first, and then you can gain license to attack. Our back 4 are very solid but right (1 goal in 3 games) but we are not creating much of anything because Wes is getting scraps, and Jack is coming too deep (time and again) to support an over-run midfield. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: fredm on September 17, 2019, 04:52:34 PM
Watching last night it was crying out for another defensive midfielder which would let Jack and McGinn get further up the field and assist Wesley and whoever else was there, be it El Ghazi or Davies.  Those two are the heartbeat of the team and having them coming back to our penalty area to mark the opposition/pick up the ball means their threat in the opposition half is nullified. If he plays the same system this weekend then I am afraid he is one obstinate person.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 17, 2019, 05:01:12 PM
This is where Deano needs to show some flexibility with formations.  I think Arsenal away is a good game to try something like a 4-2-2-1-1.  Hourihane in there for his set piece threat and get the big lads up, play Grealish higher up the field and look to win free kicks. Be compact and we can nick something there.

                  Heaton

      Fred - Engels - Mings - Taylor

          Marvelous - Douglas Luis

         McGinn - Hourihane

                 Grealish

                 Wesley
 
     

no width

The width has got to come from the left and right backs. Guilbert can do it not sure about Taylor.
I am very sure, and he can’t.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: UK Redsox on September 17, 2019, 05:19:59 PM

I was not impressed with the AEG / Mings handbags though.

If AEG had managed to headbutt Mings, I think the former would have been spark out on the floor, whilst the latter was looking around for the fly he'd felt land on him
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 05:28:34 PM

I was not impressed with the AEG / Mings handbags though.

If AEG had managed to headbutt Mings, I think the former would have been spark out on the floor, whilst the latter was looking around for the fly he'd felt land on him

He’s a braver man than I.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Flin5tone on September 17, 2019, 05:40:20 PM
I hope Supporters don't start turning on AEG he's a great lad and can be class on his day, I just think TM went a bit OTT, England call up prob got to his head and Anwar has reacted. Hopefully that's the end of it , both great  lads
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on September 17, 2019, 06:07:42 PM


From the off last night we were just too slow. It doesn't suit us. There was no pace, urgency or anything to get the crowd on their feet.

West Ham are a good side make no mistake, and it shows how far we've gone backwards in three years out the league when they're considered decent. But all that said, they'll still be a mid table PL side this season and we can't play like that against that level of opposition at home because we're going to go back down without picking up a sizeable amount of home wins this season for sure.

VERY frustrating performance all told. VERY little quality on the ball, front three were hopeless, Jota is completely wasted out wide as he has no pace or strength. And Jack, like it or not is really struggling to show anything of note at this level, which as our talisman and so called creative spark is a MAJOR worry

For me the first thing Dean has to do, whether permanently or not is try a plan B , because to my eyes this formation we're persisting with is not working at all at this level.


Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: KevinGage on September 17, 2019, 07:17:11 PM
When I say the standard of the passing was high (and it did get sloppier when they went down to ten) I mean you have to factor in the quality of the pressing and the defending too. There were plenty of balls that, against lesser opposition, would've been on target and incisive but that were cut out by good positioning and anticipation. This division is a proper challenge.

The issue with that is there were plenty of straightforward A to B passes under minimal pressure that we somehow managed to screw up as well. That seems out of character for us, so I put it down to a day at the office.  Under the circumstances - and against a decent side - getting a draw isn't so bad.

I was a bit concerned that we were too deep for too long against Everton at times and that pattern continued last night. In the very latter stages when Luiz came on we seemed to possess more urgency. But we're going at it a bit too Lambert-like for my liking, especially at home.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: paul_e on September 17, 2019, 07:53:37 PM
Heaton- Engels - Mings  dont think i would swap them for any other 3 in the prem they have settled in and look solid

Guilbert -  love this lad and he will only get better, we have a true Villa star on our hands here

Taylor - did ok but needs an up-grade , in the same way Elmo did ok but we needed someone who offered more and Guibert came in and we look better for it,
don't know if that's Target, if not it was a lot of money to pay for someone who's no improvement on Taylor

Grealish - Mcginn - heartbeat of the villa side, Jacks not reached his heights yet but he is still instrumental in everything we do going forward,
Mcginn is just Mcginn best iv'e seen since Des Bremner, no higher praise than that

Doug - Marvo -  play them both, i reckon Doug especially would be just as creative as one of our wide players

El Ghazi- Jota - Trez-  not overly impressed with any of them so far, all a bit samey in there performances, but its early days for Trez
 hopefully one will come through to be a more dangerous player in the wide areas

Wesley - Davis -   not worried about them if we get the shape right they will score the goals

i also agree with Dogtanians post,
enjoyed the game and we are a totally different team from the last time we played in this league

i was a bit disappointed in the sub, bringing on Elmo looked a bit like we were playing for a draw,
 then the fella got sent off
so we are playing against 10 men with both Elmo and Taylor in our 11,
 we needed to get Davis or at least Hourahane on straight away put pressure on them and give it a right go

This is about right for me, when we were talking about another striker i kept saying I wanted one that could play wide and cut in because I always thought the wingers looked to be where we might struggle. AEG can get better but he's not ready to start regularly at this level, Jota, for me, is a squad player and Trezeguet looks like he'll be great but he needs 6-12 months to settle in I suspect.

1 more with a little bit more to their game would be great for me and would make a big difference to us, either way AEG and Jota both wanted to take too many touches last night and were crowded out too easily.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on September 17, 2019, 11:15:53 PM
I no longer get excited when the opposition have a man sent off as we invariably seem to struggle to beat 10 men. Off the top of my head I can remember games against Boro, Ipswich, WBA as well as last night as games in the last couple of seasons that we’ve failed to beat 10 men and yet I can’t remember us winning such a game.

Edit - add the Fulham play off final to the list!
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2019, 11:39:03 PM
Forest were also down to 10 men when we were leading in the crazy 5-5.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: BC54 VFC on September 17, 2019, 11:48:47 PM
I hope Supporters don't start turning on AEG he's a great lad and can be class on his day, I just think TM went a bit OTT, England call up prob got to his head and Anwar has reacted. Hopefully that's the end of it , both great  lads
Well said; exactly my thoughts.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Axl Rose on September 18, 2019, 12:17:23 AM
I hope Supporters don't start turning on AEG he's a great lad and can be class on his day, I just think TM went a bit OTT, England call up prob got to his head and Anwar has reacted. Hopefully that's the end of it , both great  lads

England call up gone to his head? Bizarre
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 18, 2019, 12:30:53 AM
Top teams are far more organized and would practice in training with 10 v 11 or one more attacker v a defending block. Think it depends on an overall difference like if it was a cup match playing a league 2 team and they went down to 10 players after 60 mins expected to create and win.
At this level and  in play off finals and semi finals , as well as Forest example , the teams are relatively equal so it doesn't always mean a great advantage other than the extra space if used effectively
If  the team with more players can use the possession and the extra player then it's beneficial.
But teams with 10 who would look to keep the ball , offer an attacking threat , organize in defence would have every chance of still making game competitive.
We saw that with west ham and like others have said in previous games when opposition went to 10.
Now it's a case of having a plan and good tactics to cope with playing against 10 and hopefully that's another aspect can develop with this team .
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 18, 2019, 03:33:42 AM
We need mobile quick forwards. We don’t have one at the club right now. Everything slows down and we get trapped at the edge of the box. It’s all very predictable. We fix the forward situation our defence will do the rest. It’s very good and getting better.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: eamonn on September 18, 2019, 08:08:54 AM
This is where Deano needs to show some flexibility with formations.  I think Arsenal away is a good game to try something like a 4-2-2-1-1.  Hourihane in there for his set piece threat and get the big lads up, play Grealish higher up the field and look to win free kicks. Be compact and we can nick something there.

                  Heaton

      Fred - Engels - Mings - Taylor

          Marvelous - Douglas Luis

         McGinn - Hourihane

                 Grealish

                 Wesley
 
     

no width

Peter?
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: brian green on September 18, 2019, 08:10:46 AM
Very much agree TV.  Up front is where we are not Premiership class. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: in exile on September 18, 2019, 08:26:18 AM
I hope Supporters don't start turning on AEG he's a great lad and can be class on his day, I just think TM went a bit OTT, England call up prob got to his head and Anwar has reacted. Hopefully that's the end of it , both great  lads
Well said; exactly my thoughts.

I think you're both wrong in that case
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Badsastard on September 18, 2019, 09:30:24 AM
I hope Supporters don't start turning on AEG he's a great lad and can be class on his day, I just think TM went a bit OTT, England call up prob got to his head and Anwar has reacted. Hopefully that's the end of it , both great  lads

AEG's general unwillingness to track back demonstrates a poor teamwork ethic. The bollocking he received was completely justified and his response to it was petulant to the extreme. Very poor from him.
 
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on September 18, 2019, 09:37:09 AM
It was unacceptable from AEG and would’ve almost certainly caused us to lose the game had the Ref sent him off.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 18, 2019, 10:04:11 AM
we do need to become more clinical but the chances have to be created first
I really don’t think it’s a case of just going out and buying more strikers like we have done in the past to our cost at times

if we had signed Maupay I honestly don’t think he would have made any difference in the games we have played so far

it’s not just about buying a forward, it’s not that easy
it’s about the whole team working together and finding a way to play and score goals as a forward unit

having said that I think we will bring another centre forward in because we are light in that department but I don’t think that will be the answer straight away, we need to use the ball more effectively in the final third and the goals will come
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2019, 10:08:17 AM
we do need to become more clinical but the chances have to be created first
I really don’t think it’s a case of just going out and buying more strikers like we have done in the past to our cost at times

if we had signed Maupay I honestly don’t think he would have made any difference in the games we have played so far

it’s not just about buying a forward, it’s not that easy
it’s about the whole team working together and finding a way to play and score goals as a forward unit

having said that I think we will bring another centre forward in because we are light in that department but I don’t think that will be the answer straight away, we need to use the ball more effectively in the final third and the goals will come

I get your general point John, but I think Maupay WOULD have made a lot of difference up front.  He could either play the Wesley role and be a lot more mobile, or replaced either El Ghazi or Jota, both of whom have been largely rubbish.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: danno on September 18, 2019, 10:20:51 AM
I think we're an Ashley Young type (rather than a Darren Bent) short ATM.

Still maybe Trezegeut has that in him. Far too early to tell.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2019, 10:29:09 AM
There's a story from, I believe, a spoof Twitter account that AEG reacted as he did because Mings spoiled Harry Potter for him. It's nonsense but I really want it to be true.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 18, 2019, 10:39:37 AM
we do need to become more clinical but the chances have to be created first
I really don’t think it’s a case of just going out and buying more strikers like we have done in the past to our cost at times

if we had signed Maupay I honestly don’t think he would have made any difference in the games we have played so far

it’s not just about buying a forward, it’s not that easy
it’s about the whole team working together and finding a way to play and score goals as a forward unit

having said that I think we will bring another centre forward in because we are light in that department but I don’t think that will be the answer straight away, we need to use the ball more effectively in the final third and the goals will come

I get your general point John, but I think Maupay WOULD have made a lot of difference up front.  He could either play the Wesley role and be a lot more mobile, or replaced either El Ghazi or Jota, both of whom have been largely rubbish.

I think when we go for another striker we will go for better than Maupay
honestly think the new owners are just keeping their powder dry when it comes to another forward option and when we do make a move it will be a biggy

Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Damo70 on September 18, 2019, 11:20:51 AM
I am starting to think we need a forward who is a free agent to see us through to January. The need for another forward was the only thing that disappointed me regarding our summer transfer business.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2019, 11:23:29 AM

I think when we go for another striker we will go for better than Maupay


We didn't in the summer.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 18, 2019, 11:33:20 AM
That’s because Kane wasn’t available.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2019, 12:02:05 PM

I think when we go for another striker we will go for better than Maupay


We didn't in the summer.

Well maybe we did, we were linked to a few players that I'd say are a level up from Maupay but none of them came to anything. Maybe they decided that they would only go for another forward if it was someone who would be a level above what we had and the options they found just weren't available or interested at the time. This is why I'd like to see us get away from the bottom 3 long before January. If we could go into that window sat in midtable and looking for a striker to challenge for Europe our options are much better than looking for someone to pull us out of the relegation battle.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: amfy on September 18, 2019, 12:35:45 PM
I honestly think a team has to go down to 10 men in the first half for it to make a significant difference. In the last half hour teams tend to get a surge of self righteous energy which doesn’t run out before the end of the game.

In this particular game I thought we were tiring and West Ham were getting on top just before the sending off. They had been better at ‘making the ball do the work’ as the pundits say whilst our style is more frantic & I think we were running out of steam.

In this sense, the sending off helped even things up, but a team that has a steady passing game (rather than a running game) like West Ham will cope with being a man down for half an hour far better than our style would.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: olaftab on September 18, 2019, 12:45:02 PM
I agree that most teams should be able to cope with 30 mins or less when down to 10 but only if they have no interest in changing the prevailing score situation. West Ham did not and I also agree that with 11v11 they may well have gone on to win the game. I guess  West Ham are a good quality mature Premier League team and we obviously are not just now. This was very evident on how we played  v 10 and also by the fact we lost the Palace game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Mister E on September 18, 2019, 01:19:19 PM
We need mobile quick forwards. We don’t have one at the club right now. Everything slows down and we get trapped at the edge of the box. It’s all very predictable. We fix the forward situation our defence will do the rest. It’s very good and getting better.
Wesley is mobile and quick: he lacks the support at the moment and releasing GJ and JM to get a little further forward would solve many of our frontline issues.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2019, 01:24:49 PM

I think when we go for another striker we will go for better than Maupay


We didn't in the summer.

Well maybe we did, we were linked to a few players that I'd say are a level up from Maupay but none of them came to anything. Maybe they decided that they would only go for another forward if it was someone who would be a level above what we had and the options they found just weren't available or interested at the time. This is why I'd like to see us get away from the bottom 3 long before January. If we could go into that window sat in midtable and looking for a striker to challenge for Europe our options are much better than looking for someone to pull us out of the relegation battle.

You missed my point I think, in my opinion Wesley isn't as good as Maupay.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 18, 2019, 01:30:26 PM
I remember Grealish getting sent off at Forest with just 12 minutes to go and loads on here queing up to say he'd cost us the game

I think you can make the argument to suit whatever you want to believe

in my view it's what you make of it
when West Ham went down to 10 men with a good 25 minutes to play it presented a massive opportunity to go and win the game
It our fault we didn't not West Ham being good
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Dogtanian on September 18, 2019, 01:33:05 PM
I remember Grealish getting sent off at Forest with just 12 minutes to go and loads on here queing up to say he'd cost us the game

I think you can make the argument to suit whatever you want to believe

in my view it's what you make of it
when West Ham went down to 10 men with a good 25 minutes to play it presented a massive opportunity to go and win the game
It our fault we didn't not West Ham being good

I think with the Forest game was that we were on the ascendancy at the time and looked like we were going to win it, but weren't the same once Jack was gone.

I agree that Monday was down to us, we could have won that game in the second half, but the lads will learn from that.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: john e on September 18, 2019, 01:34:47 PM

I think when we go for another striker we will go for better than Maupay


We didn't in the summer.

Well maybe we did, we were linked to a few players that I'd say are a level up from Maupay but none of them came to anything. Maybe they decided that they would only go for another forward if it was someone who would be a level above what we had and the options they found just weren't available or interested at the time. This is why I'd like to see us get away from the bottom 3 long before January. If we could go into that window sat in midtable and looking for a striker to challenge for Europe our options are much better than looking for someone to pull us out of the relegation battle.

You missed my point I think, in my opinion Wesley isn't as good as Maupay.

personally I wouldn't swap

it's one of those where we can look back on in the future and see who called it right
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: fbriai on September 18, 2019, 01:39:06 PM
I wouldn't either, John. Think he'll grow into the team.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2019, 01:52:35 PM
I also think comparing Maupay in his 3rd season in England to Wesley in his 5th game is a touch early to call either of them better. Lets see how they're both doing by the January window.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Nelly on September 18, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
For what it's worth I thought we played well, without really playing well.

Lots of misplaced passes but we were on par with a team who are being tipped to finish 6-10 in the league this year. I read somewhere they have £100 million in their front three alone?

To create chances, dominate periods of play and generally compete well against that was fantastic and Lord knows, had Wesley buried that header from Grealish in the first half, or had El Ghazi managed to get to Jota's cross sooner than their keeper, we could quite easily have won this.

West Ham could have won it too, I don't mean to do them a disservice, but we weren't as bad as some are making out.

Our forward players and some of our midfield are still working out how to play together. I'm more confident that ever that it will come, especially off the back of this game.

Things to work on for me:

-Wesley needs to stop diving at every opportunity, stay on his feet and do more with the ball. He's clearly decent technically.

-We need to find ways through teams who are happy to defend against us. That's always hard though, even for the very best teams in the league.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2019, 02:26:44 PM
I think the biggest thing we need to work on is giving our players options. Too often there was only 1 pass on, which made us predictable.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: thick_mike on September 18, 2019, 02:36:26 PM
I think the biggest thing we need to work on is giving our players options. Too often there was only 1 pass on, which made us predictable.

This^, all day this ^.

When teams lose confidence, players start hiding from the ball. Often a player is scapegoated for dwelling on the ball too long because there isn’t a pass on. I think Jack and Jota both suffered from this at various times in the game.

I’m not saying players are hiding, but they need to show more.
Title: Re: Aston Villa v West Ham post-match thread
Post by: Steve67 on September 18, 2019, 07:42:38 PM
I think the other thing we have to get used to, quickly, basing my point on the two posts above, is how quickly other teams press us.  West Ham were the more polished side with the ball, although they were a bit 'all fart and no shit' when it got to the edge of our area.  I want to see us go toe to toe with these teams and feel that our players did hide a bit on Monday.  One or two just were not good enough on the night, including AEG and Jota.  Wesley is a fine player but does some daft things.  I still think we need the extra player in the centre of the park as we were wide open at times and a better team would have battered us.
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