Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 03:24:19 PM

Title: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
Seems to happening. Let's hope he's as good as the last bloke we bought from that league. Our first ever Brazilian player?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
32 goals in 107, young and big (by footballer standards).

That's the extent of my knowledge having never heard of the bloke until seeing this thread
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 03:28:27 PM
Hope you don't mind but I've just slightly amended the thread title in part to avoid raising people's hopes too much and in the main in the hope of not jinxing it.

As for the player, I didn't know of his existence an hour or two ago so, hopeful rather than expectant about this potential deal. It would be an encouraging bit of business though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 03:31:40 PM
nope that's fine.

He's a raw talent. He looks like he's got decent pace and a bit of the Benteke's about him in terms of range of goals. We knew nothing about Benteke either and he fit in well to the PL game so we can only hope if this comes off that he's much the same.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: frank black on June 13, 2019, 03:32:29 PM
Great player.......................

Great Dutch midfielder, oh it’s not him. No clue sorry, must be good at 25mil 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: TonyD on June 13, 2019, 03:34:37 PM
Is he any good?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 03:39:14 PM
Some youtube vids





Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: maidstonevillain on June 13, 2019, 03:43:28 PM
5 year deal according to the Metro.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 03:43:43 PM
John Percy has picked up the story now too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2019, 03:43:53 PM
John Percy

Verified account
 
@JPercyTelegraph
Following Following @JPercyTelegraph
More
As per the earlier tweet from the excellent @HLNinEngeland, Villa are set to sign Club Brugge striker Wesley Moraes. Fee is £20m+ and subject to medical and work permit. He is due at #avfc this weekend
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Des Little on June 13, 2019, 03:44:01 PM
If he turns out anywhere near as good as the last striker we signed from Belgium then I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 13, 2019, 03:44:25 PM
Stats I've seen don't look overwhelmingly great but always prefer to see goals per chances rather than goals per game.

Tammy looks great when it comes to goals per game but goals per chances not so flush - Wesley could be the opposite. In which case we just need to guarantee we can create chances for him.

In Dean we trust.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2019, 03:44:38 PM
John Percy has picked up the story now too.

Gah!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 03:46:22 PM
John Percy has picked up the story now too.

Gah!
Console yourself with the fact that you actually posted the tweet, rather than the half-arsed job I went for!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 03:47:16 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit and is going to get stronger and fitter in the more demanding PL. You can never truly tell on YouTube and level of competition needs to be considered also but he has some pace and he can finish. And the right age to develop.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 13, 2019, 03:48:28 PM
New record signing?  Think so.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 03:50:34 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 03:50:58 PM
I don't like this starting the thread before he signs pish.

Have we learned nothing from Leroy Fer and Joe Bryan?

Mods, please merge with the general transfer thread!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: ajmant on June 13, 2019, 03:51:32 PM
So if he is our back up, it all bodes well for the other forward we are signing, right?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 13, 2019, 03:54:11 PM
I don't like this starting the thread before he signs pish.

Have we learned nothing from Leroy Fer and Joe Bryan?

Mods, please merge with the general transfer thread!

Agree 100%, tempting fate!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2019, 03:58:59 PM
He looks like exactly the sort of striker we should be going for so I'm all for this one.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Damo70 on June 13, 2019, 03:59:27 PM
If we do pay £22 million for him he must be highly sought after. Belgian league players don't command that sort of fee unless there is some competition for their signature.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Bren'd on June 13, 2019, 04:00:36 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.

I think anybody who puts up a vid showing a prospect's best bits there should also be a corrosponding vid showing their worst.  Sitters into row Z and the like.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2019, 04:02:43 PM
I don't like this starting the thread before he signs pish.

Have we learned nothing from Leroy Fer and Joe Bryan?

Mods, please merge with the general transfer thread!

Agree 100%, tempting fate!
But but ... this thread could be the internet version of the Holte End impact on the pitch effectively  sucking him in?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 04:04:04 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.

I think anybody who puts up a vid showing a prospect's best bits there should also be a corrosponding vid showing their worst.  Sitters into row Z and the like.
That makes me think of the tony hibbert silky skills clip!

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 13, 2019, 04:04:53 PM
How will he cope with Luton on a Tuesday night in November?  Ah silly me, he won’t need to.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 04:05:04 PM
I don't like this starting the thread before he signs pish.

Have we learned nothing from Leroy Fer and Joe Bryan?

Mods, please merge with the general transfer thread!

The plan is to have threads when it seems like there's solid evidence that it's a thing.

And whether it ultimately happens or not (like with Fer and Bryan) it feels like there's enough legs to make it a real thing.

More groundless speculation stays in the other one.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
Seems to happening. Let's hope he's as good as the last bloke we bought from that league. Our first ever Brazilian player?
How quickly you forgot our "adopted Brazilian" Alan Cafu Roberto Carlos Marcelo Leonardo Dani Alves HUTTON?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Diablo on June 13, 2019, 04:07:22 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.

I think anybody who puts up a vid showing a prospect's best bits there should also be a corrosponding vid showing their worst.  Sitters into row Z and the like.
That makes me think of the tony hibbert silky skills clip!


Haha! Brilliant!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2019, 04:09:59 PM
John Percy

Verified account
 
@JPercyTelegraph
Following Following @JPercyTelegraph
More
As per the earlier tweet from the excellent @HLNinEngeland, Villa are set to sign Club Brugge striker Wesley Moraes. Fee is £20m+ and subject to medical and work permit. He is due at #avfc this weekend
I will not believe it until Jo Wilson tells me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Border villan on June 13, 2019, 04:22:14 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.

I think anybody who puts up a vid showing a prospect's best bits there should also be a corrosponding vid showing their worst.  Sitters into row Z and the like.

You mean the full Savo.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 13, 2019, 04:24:54 PM
Those Youtube clips don't bring much comfort.

The Brazilian Kris Boyd
The Brazilian Kris Boyd
Wesley Moraes, The Brazilian Kris Boyd.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 04:24:59 PM
I don't like this starting the thread before he signs pish.

Have we learned nothing from Leroy Fer and Joe Bryan?

Mods, please merge with the general transfer thread!

The plan is to have threads when it seems like there's solid evidence that it's a thing.

And whether it ultimately happens or not (like with Fer and Bryan) it feels like there's enough legs to make it a real thing.

More groundless speculation stays in the other one.

Just.

BOOOOOOOO!

Can we at least take out the second name? He's Brazilian, he only needs one!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: maidstonevillain on June 13, 2019, 04:36:53 PM
How will he cope with Luton on a Tuesday night in November?  Ah silly me, he won’t need to.
When we get Luton on a Tuesday in November in the League Cup remind me to bump this.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: TonyD on June 13, 2019, 04:40:27 PM
He looks good on the vids goals.   
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: VWBelgian on June 13, 2019, 04:41:16 PM
Thats a lot of money on a unproven striker i do think... 25m euro's... Let's hope he hits target if all goes through.
Dont follow Belgium football, i'll ask around.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: villadelph on June 13, 2019, 04:41:23 PM
From Brugge supporters on Reddit

Well..?

1) "I think he will adapt to the PL quite fast. Dude was a beast in our CL campaign this season, playing great against top defenders like Godin, Giménez and Akanji."

Can you Expand?

1) "Sure, I've seen him playing for 4 years at Club Brugge, so I can tell you a bit more about him.
He only started playing football at 16years old, played at Trencin before going to Club Brugge, so is quite the journeyman.

During those 4 years, he physically grew to be quite unplayable at the Belgian league for any defender, leaving them no options but to commit a foul. As a hold up player, he likes to fall back, receive the ball and continue the play from there on forward, having a great technique to pass or dribble. He has a powerfull shot, but for now, misses a bit accuracy. Something he has been working on.
He's not only good as a hold up player, but has a great deal of speed that's quite unique for such a big, powerfull guy.

Lacks a bit of quality on headers, but again... this guy has improved alot in the 4 years he's been at Club Brugge, that makes me believe he's got a high ceiling.
Excellent pick-up for you guys."

2) Yeah, basically the best striker I’ve seen with us for a very long time and we launched Bacca and Perisic im Europe. Our team revolves around Wesley and Vanaken and with success btw.

Unit of a lad with 1m90+ tall and 90+kg, isn’t slow at all, technically good and holds off every defender. He’s always really important in games where he doesn’t score because he’s a pest to the opposing defenders due to his physique.

He also has a killer pass. I mean look at this assist: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20181223_04059134

He isn’t an accurate header though. He can miss clear chances with his head, which is unusual for such a tall lad.

3) Club Bruges fan here, he's a beast! Super strong but relatively fast for his size. If he's able to adjust to the PL intensity he'll be a nightmare for any defender.

4) I loved seeing this guy play for us, he has a never give up mentality. Always kept pressing and working for the team hence that his goalscoring numbers aren't spectacular. He has improved a lot since he joined us and I expect him to become even better at you guys.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 04:47:19 PM
When you look at the money being lashed around in the PL on players many of us have never heard of 20m + add ons which it seems this will be isn't massive for very promising young player who has played in the CL and has a very decent record at domestic level. Being in the PL comes with a premium now, more than it ever has. I would bet on us breaking our transfer record again this summer, maybe a couple of times. Just the way it is.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Monty on June 13, 2019, 04:48:01 PM
A big guy who does the pressing off the ball sounds quite scary.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: AGRIPPA on June 13, 2019, 04:57:17 PM
Finishing looks good, but there's something about his control that doesn't seem right to me. I'm far from an expert so if it's good enough for those choosing signings then I'm happy with it.

I think anybody who puts up a vid showing a prospect's best bits there should also be a corrosponding vid showing their worst.  Sitters into row Z and the like.
That makes me think of the tony hibbert silky skills clip!




That is me....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on June 13, 2019, 05:12:16 PM
Could he be filling the traditional no10 role? And we’ll get a new no9 on top?

He looks unplayable at times in those clips.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 13, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
He won the Young Player of the Season in the Belgium league so he must be doing something right. I'm shocked with the comment VD quoted about Wesley only starting to play football at 16. What the hell was he doing before then?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: adrenachrome on June 13, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/06/13/aston-villa-smash-transfer-record-22m-forward-wesley-moraes/)

Quote
Aston Villa to smash transfer record on £22m forward Wesley Moraes

John Percy

13 June 2019 • 5:12pm




Aston Villa are set to smash their transfer record with the £22million signing of Club Brugge forward Wesley Moraes.

Moraes is flying into Birmingham this weekend to put the finishing touches to the move, in a huge statement of intent from Villa’s owners.

The Brazilian’s signing will eclipse the previous Villa record of an initial £18million for Darren Bent in 2011 and is subject to a medical and a work permit.

But Villa officials are understood to consider the potential deal a significant coup, with Moraes, 22, establishing a reputation as a powerful striker with an eye for goal.

Moraes featured for Brugge in the Champions League last season and it is understood the Belgian club are keen to insert a sell-on clause into the deal.

He will become the third official signing since Villa secured promotion back to the Premier League, following Jota and Anwar El Ghazi. Kortney Hause, the Wolves defender, will also complete his £3million move on his return from holiday.

Villa are also looking to sign Leeds midfielder Kalvin Phillips and Bournemouth’s Tyrone Mings as they prepare for next season.

After the play-off final win over Derby, head coach Dean Smith said: “The potential of the football club is massive.

“It feels right that Villa are in the Premier League, the history and the size of the club, the fanbase that it has, I believe it is a Premier League club and that's not me being a supporter.

“We've got two owners [Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens] who have got a lot of money, and are in it for the long haul.”

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2019, 05:32:28 PM
Thanks for the reddit quotes, villadelph. Always good to have the views of those who've watched a player over time.

Love this, if it comes off. Never heard of him! More, please, Villa.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: maidstonevillain on June 13, 2019, 05:36:08 PM
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/06/13/aston-villa-smash-transfer-record-22m-forward-wesley-moraes/)

Quote
Aston Villa to smash transfer record on £22m forward Wesley Moraes

John Percy

13 June 2019 • 5:12pm




Aston Villa are set to smash their transfer record with the £22million signing of Club Brugge forward Wesley Moraes.

Moraes is flying into Birmingham this weekend to put the finishing touches to the move, in a huge statement of intent from Villa’s owners.

The Brazilian’s signing will eclipse the previous Villa record of an initial £18million for Darren Bent in 2011 and is subject to a medical and a work permit.

But Villa officials are understood to consider the potential deal a significant coup, with Moraes, 22, establishing a reputation as a powerful striker with an eye for goal.

Moraes featured for Brugge in the Champions League last season and it is understood the Belgian club are keen to insert a sell-on clause into the deal.

He will become the third official signing since Villa secured promotion back to the Premier League, following Jota and Anwar El Ghazi. Kortney Hause, the Wolves defender, will also complete his £3million move on his return from holiday.

Villa are also looking to sign Leeds midfielder Kalvin Phillips and Bournemouth’s Tyrone Mings as they prepare for next season.

After the play-off final win over Derby, head coach Dean Smith said: “The potential of the football club is massive.

“It feels right that Villa are in the Premier League, the history and the size of the club, the fanbase that it has, I believe it is a Premier League club and that's not me being a supporter.

“We've got two owners [Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens] who have got a lot of money, and are in it for the long haul.”


Smashed! Is this clickbait.

OK. It might be numercally more than we paid for Bent. But not in real terms.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2019, 05:45:52 PM
Could he be filling the traditional no10 role? And we’ll get a new no9 on top?

He looks unplayable at times in those clips.


I get the feeling we're all going to have to reevaluate how a football team is set up, I don't think we'll be playing with someone that any of us of an age would call a number 9.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2019, 05:51:50 PM
An astute purchase as 4th choice cover for Abraham, Kodjia and Davies.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: kieron on June 13, 2019, 06:01:19 PM
Confirmed: https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1139215994285678592

Quote
Aston Villa and Club Brugge have agreed the transfer of Brazilian striker Wesley, subject to a work permit and international clearance.

http://bit.ly/2IGyjZp

#AVFC https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1139215994285678592/photo/1
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Seb_AVFC on June 13, 2019, 06:02:25 PM
Colleague of mine is a FC Bruges ticket holder. He's been saying for months we should sign the boy. He's waxing lyrical about him. Back in the day Benteke was unproven in the league when we bought him, this kid's done better.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: jwarry on June 13, 2019, 06:03:57 PM
Ooh it’s getting exciting isn’t it!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 13, 2019, 06:04:21 PM
Bem-vindo, Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: maidstonevillain on June 13, 2019, 06:05:03 PM
Welcome Wesley. That one came from nowhere.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Dazvillain on June 13, 2019, 06:05:47 PM
Wow from heavy rumours and speculation all day, a major signing ! We don’t seem to be messing round.

Now, announce Mings 😂😂
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Matt C on June 13, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
Looks like the attributes for the PL, right age, good potential.

No messing about this summer, I like it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Colhint on June 13, 2019, 06:10:38 PM
on the club website now

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: kieron on June 13, 2019, 06:10:41 PM
We are not fucking about, and I love it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 13, 2019, 06:10:51 PM
Bloody Hell, we're not messing around, how feckin refreshing!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 13, 2019, 06:11:21 PM
Bring it on.

Well done villa possible coup here

Add mings / Hause/ berahmi and it's starting to take shape
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Ads on June 13, 2019, 06:13:10 PM
Seems a big lad.

Is this our first Brazlian player?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 06:13:20 PM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on June 13, 2019, 06:14:24 PM
How is Moraes pronounced?
Is it Moraes-inho,
Or Moraes- aldo,
Or Moraes-ario,
Or Moraes-eto,
Or Moraes-ele?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: kieron on June 13, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
It's pronounced Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Monty on June 13, 2019, 06:16:47 PM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.

It's probably the most wrong in the least time I've ever been and I'm quite happy about it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: villa_cads on June 13, 2019, 06:19:34 PM
I posted a short while ago that for my faith in our recruitment team, I wouldn't really be satisfied until we'd signed a South American striker I'd never heard of... bingo!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: frank black on June 13, 2019, 06:20:23 PM
Girl from Ipanema based chant....surely
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: MalcolmP on June 13, 2019, 06:21:37 PM
How is Moraes pronounced?
Is it Moraes-inho,
Or Moraes- aldo,
Or Moraes-ario,
Or Moraes-eto,
Or Moraes-ele?

Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva, that's going to cost a fortune to have his name on the shirt!  Have we a song for him yet? 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: frank black on June 13, 2019, 06:22:32 PM
We love you Wesley, we wanna see you score etc
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: SamTheMouse on June 13, 2019, 06:22:48 PM
This is fucking brilliant.

I bet they reject the work permit application.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: dave shelley on June 13, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
Is it too early to say welcome Wes?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 06:23:27 PM
Welcome Wesley. Gonna get a Brazilian done in celebration 😊😊😊
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: mike on June 13, 2019, 06:24:40 PM
This is fucking brilliant.

I bet they reject the work permit application.

I love supporting a Birmingham club. I can always find a like minded pessimist.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 13, 2019, 06:25:13 PM
I'm very encouraged by this.  Great stuff.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Newby on June 13, 2019, 06:28:19 PM
                      Butland
Guilbert   Mings      Someone   Targett
                     Big bugger
Someone  Jack       SJM      El Ghazi
                    Wesley

It's coming together!!         
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 06:29:02 PM

Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva, that's going to cost a fortune to have his name on the shirt!  Have we a song for him yet? 

It'll either be "there's only one"

Or it will start "give us a W" and will still going half an hour later.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: four fornicholl on June 13, 2019, 06:29:16 PM
I've waited a long time, but just announced to the family that we've got our Villa back, feels great.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
                      Butland
Guilbert   Mings      Someone   Targett
                     Big bugger
Someone  Jack       SJM      El Ghazi
                    Wesley

It's coming together!!         

I've heard good things about the Someone brothers.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Chris Smith on June 13, 2019, 06:30:17 PM
Just had a WhatsApp “he’s here, he’s there, he’s Wesley fucking where”.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Monty on June 13, 2019, 06:32:32 PM
Surely Jota on the right at the minute?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Never heard of him, but exciting to get a Brazilian forward in and looks to have the right attributes for the Premier League.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 13, 2019, 06:36:07 PM
How is Moraes pronounced?
Is it Moraes-inho,
Or Moraes- aldo,
Or Moraes-ario,
Or Moraes-eto,
Or Moraes-ele?

Wesley.

Mor-eye-sh
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Newby on June 13, 2019, 06:36:25 PM
                      Butland
Guilbert   Mings      Someone   Targett
                     Big bugger
Someone  Jack       SJM      El Ghazi
                    Wesley

It's coming together!!         

I've heard good things about the Someone brothers.

Any truth in the rumour about big bugger?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Newby on June 13, 2019, 06:38:40 PM
On the official site too.  Done deal!! Fantastic.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Bren'd on June 13, 2019, 06:39:49 PM
Great stuff we’ve got ourselves a beast again.

The only down side like the last beast we signed will be his agent. Hope I’m wrong.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 06:40:45 PM
The official statement has changed so the medical must have been done

Quote
Aston Villa and Club Brugge have agreed the transfer of Brazilian striker Wesley, subject to a work permit and international clearance.

The 22-year-old has spent the past four seasons with the Belgian side where he has helped them win two league titles, two Belgian Super Cups and netted an impressive 17 goals last season.

He has made a number of appearances in the Champions League, netting twice in consecutive games in last season’s group stage while he also scored a winning goal for Brugge against RB Salzburg in the knock-out phase of the 2018/19 Europa League.

The 6ft 3in striker has now won six major honours in his fledgling career including a league title and cup during his spell in Slovakia with AS Trencin.

Wesley was also crowned "De Golden Schoen", the award given to the best young player of the year in the Belgian Pro League.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to medical and work permit
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2019, 06:43:10 PM
Great stuff we’ve got ourselves a beast again.

The only down side like the last beast we signed will be his agent. Hope I’m wrong.


He could've told his agent to feck orf, if he'd really wanted to.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 06:43:50 PM
De Golden Schoen. My flemish isn't the best, but I think that translates as "the best boy".
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: JUAN PABLO on June 13, 2019, 06:48:14 PM
Bring it on.

Well done villa possible coup here

Add mings / Hause/ berahmi / Philips and it's starting to take shape


perfect
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Villan For Life on June 13, 2019, 06:49:13 PM
I’m chuffed with this. Since the play off final everything has been so positive and things are really looking up for the Villa.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: KevinGage on June 13, 2019, 06:50:26 PM
This is fucking brilliant.

I bet they reject the work permit application.

Someone send out the bat (twat) signal and get Margaret Byrne on the case.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 06:53:58 PM
Excellent news, and a clear signal of intent.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: SaddVillan on June 13, 2019, 06:54:52 PM
£22M!
For a Brazilian?
NUTS!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 13, 2019, 06:56:23 PM
This time last year we were looking down the back of a settee for pennies to keep the lights on at the club. Jack was going to be sold for £8.50 plus a packet of Onomah. Today about 12 months on we are in the PL having just smashed the club transfer record on a Brazilian striker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 06:57:17 PM
It really is shit being skint pricks under a transfer embargo.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: dave shelley on June 13, 2019, 06:57:46 PM
This time last year we were looking down the back of a settee for pennies to keep the lights on at the club. Jack was going to be sold for £8.50 plus a packet of Onomah. Today about 12 months on we are in the PL having just smashed the club transfer record on a Brazilian striker.

Takes some believing doesn't it?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: supertom on June 13, 2019, 06:58:37 PM
This time last year we were looking down the back of a settee for pennies to keep the lights on at the club. Jack was going to be sold for £8.50 plus a packet of Onomah. Today about 12 months on we are in the PL having just smashed the club transfer record on a Brazilian striker.

Own up people. Who sold their soul to the devil? Whoever it was, we all owe you a pint.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2019, 07:05:05 PM
Looking forward to some sniping runs from Wesley finished off by a Crusher of a shot

I’m disappointed in myself  :-X
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: supertom on June 13, 2019, 07:07:16 PM
There's definitely a touch of the Benteke about him, with a pinch of the Big John Carew. If he does as well as those two we've got a bargain.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Kimaster1976 on June 13, 2019, 07:08:27 PM
How exactly is he going to get a work permit being Brazilian with zero caps? i know they make exceptions if its like a wonderkid or something, but as nobody with a 10 mile radius of Brugges had heard of him until today does he qualify?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2019, 07:11:57 PM
How exactly is he going to get a work permit being Brazilian with zero caps? i know they make exceptions if its like a wonderkid or something, but as nobody with a 10 mile radius of Brugges had heard of him until today does he qualify?

He might have a Portuguese, Belgian or Slovakian passport
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
How exactly is he going to get a work permit being Brazilian with zero caps? i know they make exceptions if its like a wonderkid or something, but as nobody with a 10 mile radius of Brugges had heard of him until today does he qualify?

Apparently it's all good. Champions League experience and us paying lots of money apparently makes that problem disappear.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithe on June 13, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Kimaster1976 on June 13, 2019, 07:13:56 PM
If he had a Portugese, Belgium passport etc......he wouldnt need a work permit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 13, 2019, 07:14:30 PM
Looking forward to some sniping runs from Wesley finished off by a Crusher of a shot

I’m disappointed in myself  :-X
Yes, you've let yourself down there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:15:28 PM
How exactly is he going to get a work permit being Brazilian with zero caps? i know they make exceptions if its like a wonderkid or something, but as nobody with a 10 mile radius of Brugges had heard of him until today does he qualify?

He might have a Portuguese, Belgian or Slovakian passport

He doesn't, otherwise we wouldn't have signed him "subject to a work permit".

The work permit rules have been discussed in the transfer thread already, at great length, by one of our more tedious posters.

Here you go....

Isn't this the sort of signing that doesn't get a work permit?

He wouldn't automatically qualify as he doesn't meet the international criteria (he has yet to get a cap)...

It would then be decided on points. He would meet the points requirement purely based on being higher than the 75th percentile of transfer fess and, presumambly, higher than the 75th percentile of wages, too.

They aren't honour bound to honour the points system and can reject it if they wish, but it would be unlikely.

If they do reject it anyway, it would go into a secondary points criteria. He would qualify doubly having played a minimum of 30% of group games in the Champions League (he played in all six) and having played in a minimum of 30% of knockout games in the Europa League (he played in both legs before their elimination).

Even then they still could turn his application down. The points systems are both advisory and the board have the final decision. I would be very surprised though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: onebyone12 on June 13, 2019, 07:19:30 PM
Please bag 10+,,,
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tayls_7 on June 13, 2019, 07:20:38 PM
Looking forward to some sniping runs from Wesley finished off by a Crusher of a shot

I’m disappointed in myself  :-X
Yes, you've let yourself down there.

There was Methodist in his madness though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 07:24:32 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it

Not how non-EU immigration works I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Stu on June 13, 2019, 07:24:58 PM
Girl from Ipanema based chant....surely

Nah, something along the lines of Rio by Duran Duran -

His name is Wesley and he scores lots of goals...

...something like that. *cough*
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: The Edge on June 13, 2019, 07:26:46 PM
£22M!
For a Brazilian?
NUTS!!
It seems rather a lot for a Brazillian.
My Mrs pays about 20 quid to get hers done.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Stu on June 13, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
How exactly is he going to get a work permit being Brazilian with zero caps? i know they make exceptions if its like a wonderkid or something, but as nobody with a 10 mile radius of Brugges had heard of him until today does he qualify?

The journo that broke the story said work permit is ok as he played in the CL last season *shrug*

No idea what the rules are.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithe on June 13, 2019, 07:28:14 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it

Not how non-EU immigration works I'm afraid.

Hasn’t he qualified to work in the EU already?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Monty on June 13, 2019, 07:29:19 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it

Not how non-EU immigration works I'm afraid.

Hasn’t he qualified to work in the EU already?

Member states have control over non-EU immigration.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 07:29:52 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine.

Part A Objective Criteria
Criteria
Points
The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is above the 75th percentile of Qualifying Transfers1.
3 points
The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th percentile (inclusive) of Qualifying Transfers1.
2 points
The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are above the 75th percentile of Qualifying Wages.
3 points
The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th percentile (inclusive) of Qualifying Wages.
2 points
The player’s current club is in a Top League and the player has played in 30% or more of the Available Minutes.
1 point
The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of a Continental Competition within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the Available Minutes.
1 point
568
Miscellaneous
Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
Part B Objective Criteria
 Criteria
 Points
 The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is within 20% of the 50th percentile of Qualifying Transfers1.
  1 point
 Players2 for whom no transfer fee is payable who have been ascribed a virtual transfer value (on such basis and in such amount as the Exceptions Panel deems to be appropriate in its absolute discretion) which exceeds the value which is 20% below the 50th percentile of Qualifying Transfers
 1 point
 The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are within 20% of the 50th percentile of Qualifying Wages.
  1 point
 The player’s current club is in a Secondary League and the player has played in at least 30% of the Available Minutes.
   1 point
 The player’s current club has played in the final qualification rounds of a Continental Competition within the last 12 months and the player has played in at least 30% of the Available Minutes.
  1 point
 The applicant club is able to show3 that the player has participated in the Secondary Percentage4 of senior Competitive International Matches5 played by that player’s National Association during the Reference Period.
OR
The player’s National Association was a semi-finalist in the Asian Cup or African Cup of Nations in the immediately preceding 12 months of the date of the application for a GBE.
If the National Association is ranked outside the top 60 in the FIFA Aggregated World Rankings at the time of the application, the club must be able to show3 that the player participated in 75% or more4 of the Competitive International Matches5 played by the National Association during the Reference Period.
  1 point
  569
Notes:
1 No points will be awarded for players for whom no transfer fee is payable at the time an application for a GBE is made for that player. This includes (but is not limited to) players transferring on a free transfer and players for whom a transfer fee has previously been paid but that player has been sent out on loan and is returning to their parent club.
2 Players registering with a club on loan or for whom a transfer has previously been completed (regardless of whether a transfer fee was paid or not) but that player has been sent out on loan and is returning to their parent club cannot be ascribed a virtual transfer fee.

  Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
3 The applicant club must provide written confirmation setting out all matches (including Competitive International Matches, friendlies and any other international matches that the player was involved in) in which the player:
• tookpart;
• was Unavailable for Selection; and
• did not take part but was not Unavailable for Selection.
An applicant club should obtain such confirmation from the player’s National Association. If the relevant National Association is not able to confirm this, this fact should be confirmed by the applicant club to The FA. At this stage, The FA will seek to independently verify this information through its own sources. The responsibility lies with the applicant club to provide this information where it is able to do so. A decision will not be made until this process has been completed and any relevant supporting evidence is submitted.
4 In calculating the Secondary Percentage (or other relevant percentage), any Competitive International Matches for which the player was Unavailable for Selection are to be excluded.
5 If fewer than 30% of a National Association’s matches during the Reference Period are Competitive International Matches, friendly matches will be included in the calculation.
4. SUBJECTIVE REVIEW
Where a player scores 4 points or more by reference to the Part A objective criteria; or following any consideration of a club’s application under the Part B objective criteria (regardless of points scored), the Exceptions Panel will then conduct a subjective review of the information presented by the club and any other information which it considers to be relevant in its absolute discretion in respect of the player in order to determine whether the player is of sufficient quality to justify it recommending that a GBE be awarded. As has been set out above at paragraph 2.2, clubs should ensure that all evidence that they want to be considered in respect of the player is submitted in writing ahead of the determination by the Exceptions Panel.
570
Miscellaneous

571
Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
Examples of matters which the Exceptions Panel may take into account when conducting the subjective review include but are not limited to:
• If applicable, the fact that the player satisfies or partially satisfies some of the automatic criteria for a Governing Body Endorsement (as set out under 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted)), as well as the extent to which the player exceeds or falls short of these criteria.
• The reasons why the automatic criteria (as set out under paragraph 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted) above) were not met.
• Against which objective criteria (whether Part A or Part B objective criteria) points have been scored and how many points have been scored.
• The extent to which the player exceeds either the Part A or Part B objective criteria that he has met or falls short of either the Part A or Part B objective criteria he does not meet.
5. OUTCOME
If a player scores 4 points or more by reference to the Part A objective criteria or a Cumulative Total Score of 5 points of more under the Part A and Part B objective criteria, the Exceptions Panel may grant a GBE, but is under no obligation to do so. The Panel is entitled to consider, as part of its subjective review, any other circumstances or facts which it deems to be relevant in its absolute discretion in deciding whether to recommend that a GBE is awarded.
If a player scores fewer than 4 points by reference to the Part A objective criteria and a Cumulative Total Score of fewer than 5 points under the Part A and Part B objective criteria, the Exceptions Panel is guided to refuse a GBE unless it is satisfied, following its subjective review, that the player is internationally established at the highest level and that his employment will make a significant contribution to the development of football at the highest level in England . In determining this, the Exceptions Panel may consider any other circumstances or facts which it deems to be relevant in its absolute discretion in deciding whether to recommend that a GBE is awarded.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ger Regan on June 13, 2019, 07:30:02 PM
Free movement only works for eu citizens, not residents afaik.

Edit: monty beat me to it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it

Not how non-EU immigration works I'm afraid.

Hasn’t he qualified to work in the EU already?

If Belgium say that they are happy for a particular Brazilian to live and work in Belgium then that's up to them.

If the UK gives say, a Nigerian rights to work in the UK that doesn't give him the right to go and work in Belgium. He can apply for it, just as a Brazilian is now going to apply for the right to work and score bucketloads of goals in the UK.

If they become citizens of their new countries, they then automatically acquire the rights that go with it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: frank black on June 13, 2019, 07:32:06 PM
He’ll fly through then
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 13, 2019, 07:34:59 PM
Bring back the,
"oo, Ian Olney,
oo, Ian Olney" chant.

Oo, Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva,
Oo, Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva,
Oo, Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva"

The kids'll love it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2019, 07:36:48 PM
If he can work in the EU in Belgium he should be able to work in the EU in the UK, if we are quick about it

Not how non-EU immigration works I'm afraid.

Hasn’t he qualified to work in the EU already?

Member states have control over non-EU immigration.

Wesley means Wesley
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:39:32 PM
After 145 years, we are all Wesleyans again.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Stu on June 13, 2019, 07:42:44 PM
After 135 years, we are all Wesleyans again.

This is some good work.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:43:47 PM
Would have been better if I had been able to add up.

*Coughs. 145 years.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Pete3206 on June 13, 2019, 07:49:00 PM
Yes, yes this is all very well.

But where does this leave SHA forum threads on FFP?

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on June 13, 2019, 07:49:39 PM
Not that we should nick a Stoke chant, but Wesley's full name scans very nicely with the first line of Delilah.

'I saw the light on the night that I passed by her window' could easily become 'His name is Wesley Moraes Ferreira de Silva'. (Da da da daaaaa!)

Then loads of stuff about scoring goals.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:50:09 PM
I had a glimpse before this signing and a few of them were talking about boycotting St Andrews if Monk left.

Nobody seemed to ask how anyone would notice the difference.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 07:50:38 PM
Yes, yes this is all very well.

But where does this leave SHA forum threads on FFP?



I imagine that on the day we break our transfer record, they're too busy shitting themselves that their manager is about to walk out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: four fornicholl on June 13, 2019, 07:50:58 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine.

Part A Objective Criteria
Criteria
Points
The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is above the 75th percentile of Qualifying Transfers1.
3 points
The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th percentile (inclusive) of Qualifying Transfers1.
2 points
The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are above the 75th percentile of Qualifying Wages.
3 points
The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th percentile (inclusive) of Qualifying Wages.
2 points
The player’s current club is in a Top League and the player has played in 30% or more of the Available Minutes.
1 point
The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of a Continental Competition within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the Available Minutes.
1 point
568
Miscellaneous
Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
Part B Objective Criteria
 Criteria
 Points
 The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is within 20% of the 50th percentile of Qualifying Transfers1.
  1 point
 Players2 for whom no transfer fee is payable who have been ascribed a virtual transfer value (on such basis and in such amount as the Exceptions Panel deems to be appropriate in its absolute discretion) which exceeds the value which is 20% below the 50th percentile of Qualifying Transfers
 1 point
 The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are within 20% of the 50th percentile of Qualifying Wages.
  1 point
 The player’s current club is in a Secondary League and the player has played in at least 30% of the Available Minutes.
   1 point
 The player’s current club has played in the final qualification rounds of a Continental Competition within the last 12 months and the player has played in at least 30% of the Available Minutes.
  1 point
 The applicant club is able to show3 that the player has participated in the Secondary Percentage4 of senior Competitive International Matches5 played by that player’s National Association during the Reference Period.
OR
The player’s National Association was a semi-finalist in the Asian Cup or African Cup of Nations in the immediately preceding 12 months of the date of the application for a GBE.
If the National Association is ranked outside the top 60 in the FIFA Aggregated World Rankings at the time of the application, the club must be able to show3 that the player participated in 75% or more4 of the Competitive International Matches5 played by the National Association during the Reference Period.
  1 point
  569
Notes:
1 No points will be awarded for players for whom no transfer fee is payable at the time an application for a GBE is made for that player. This includes (but is not limited to) players transferring on a free transfer and players for whom a transfer fee has previously been paid but that player has been sent out on loan and is returning to their parent club.
2 Players registering with a club on loan or for whom a transfer has previously been completed (regardless of whether a transfer fee was paid or not) but that player has been sent out on loan and is returning to their parent club cannot be ascribed a virtual transfer fee.

  Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
3 The applicant club must provide written confirmation setting out all matches (including Competitive International Matches, friendlies and any other international matches that the player was involved in) in which the player:
• tookpart;
• was Unavailable for Selection; and
• did not take part but was not Unavailable for Selection.
An applicant club should obtain such confirmation from the player’s National Association. If the relevant National Association is not able to confirm this, this fact should be confirmed by the applicant club to The FA. At this stage, The FA will seek to independently verify this information through its own sources. The responsibility lies with the applicant club to provide this information where it is able to do so. A decision will not be made until this process has been completed and any relevant supporting evidence is submitted.
4 In calculating the Secondary Percentage (or other relevant percentage), any Competitive International Matches for which the player was Unavailable for Selection are to be excluded.
5 If fewer than 30% of a National Association’s matches during the Reference Period are Competitive International Matches, friendly matches will be included in the calculation.
4. SUBJECTIVE REVIEW
Where a player scores 4 points or more by reference to the Part A objective criteria; or following any consideration of a club’s application under the Part B objective criteria (regardless of points scored), the Exceptions Panel will then conduct a subjective review of the information presented by the club and any other information which it considers to be relevant in its absolute discretion in respect of the player in order to determine whether the player is of sufficient quality to justify it recommending that a GBE be awarded. As has been set out above at paragraph 2.2, clubs should ensure that all evidence that they want to be considered in respect of the player is submitted in writing ahead of the determination by the Exceptions Panel.
570
Miscellaneous

571
Appendix 1: Exceptions Panel Procedures
Examples of matters which the Exceptions Panel may take into account when conducting the subjective review include but are not limited to:
• If applicable, the fact that the player satisfies or partially satisfies some of the automatic criteria for a Governing Body Endorsement (as set out under 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted)), as well as the extent to which the player exceeds or falls short of these criteria.
• The reasons why the automatic criteria (as set out under paragraph 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted) above) were not met.
• Against which objective criteria (whether Part A or Part B objective criteria) points have been scored and how many points have been scored.
• The extent to which the player exceeds either the Part A or Part B objective criteria that he has met or falls short of either the Part A or Part B objective criteria he does not meet.
5. OUTCOME
If a player scores 4 points or more by reference to the Part A objective criteria or a Cumulative Total Score of 5 points of more under the Part A and Part B objective criteria, the Exceptions Panel may grant a GBE, but is under no obligation to do so. The Panel is entitled to consider, as part of its subjective review, any other circumstances or facts which it deems to be relevant in its absolute discretion in deciding whether to recommend that a GBE is awarded.
If a player scores fewer than 4 points by reference to the Part A objective criteria and a Cumulative Total Score of fewer than 5 points under the Part A and Part B objective criteria, the Exceptions Panel is guided to refuse a GBE unless it is satisfied, following its subjective review, that the player is internationally established at the highest level and that his employment will make a significant contribution to the development of football at the highest level in England . In determining this, the Exceptions Panel may consider any other circumstances or facts which it deems to be relevant in its absolute discretion in deciding whether to recommend that a GBE is awarded.
What was that bit in the middle?  ;)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 13, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
How do you pronounce Moraes?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Smirker on June 13, 2019, 07:53:33 PM
Not that we should nick a Stoke chant, but Wesley's full name scans very nicely with the first line of Delilah.

'I saw the light on the night that I passed by her window' could easily become 'His name is Wesley Moraes Ferreira de Silva'. (Da da da daaaaa!)

Then loads of stuff about scoring goals.
haha, hope he does well. Welcome Wesley.


Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on June 13, 2019, 07:54:05 PM
How do you pronounce Moraes?

I'm assuming it's Moore Eye Ezz.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on June 13, 2019, 07:55:38 PM
That’s a-Moraes!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 07:56:19 PM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.

Ha ha, excellent work.  In a similar vein, I'd like to take credit for Mings being utterly brilliant by declaring that he'd be injured and rubbish.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:56:43 PM
How do you pronounce Moraes?

WES... LEY.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 13, 2019, 07:56:50 PM
He’s figured out gates already, fatty McCaramac take note.
(https://i.ibb.co/kxxmJSd/090-A19-B4-EB56-4-E99-B66-B-01-A6-A136-C56-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxxmJSd)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:58:14 PM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.

Ha ha, excellent work.  In a similar vein, I'd like to take credit for Mings being utterly brilliant by declaring that he'd be injured and rubbish.

Can we bring back the Belgian Villa fan who convinced us all that Benteke was a waste of money to slag off our impending new arrival, please?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 07:58:50 PM
He’s figured out gates already, fatty McCaramac take note.
(https://i.ibb.co/kxxmJSd/090-A19-B4-EB56-4-E99-B66-B-01-A6-A136-C56-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxxmJSd)

Wait a minute those look like....

WOLVES GATES!

Gazumping bastards!

😭😭😭
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on June 13, 2019, 08:05:28 PM
Yes, yes this is all very well.

But where does this leave SHA forum threads on FFP?



I imagine that on the day we break our transfer record, they're too busy shitting themselves that their manager is about to walk out.

It's the Dingle threads you have to keep an eye on. They've pivoted from "them only signing Championship players for chep bay thae" to "woh do em no gud signing players like Fulham bae thae".

I'll be honest I know nothing about him, but that we've just smashed our transfer record out the blue on a Brazlian makes me all fizzy in the loins.

Now where is the YouTube footage.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 13, 2019, 08:08:22 PM
Who’s going to be the first to call him Wesley Morose if he has a bad game?  See Hologram, Conor.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 13, 2019, 08:09:04 PM
Yes, yes this is all very well.

But where does this leave SHA forum threads on FFP?



I imagine that on the day we break our transfer record, they're too busy shitting themselves that their manager is about to walk out.

It's the Dingle threads you have to keep an eye on. They've pivoted from "them only signing Championship players for chep bay thae" to "woh do em no gud signing players like Fulham bae thae".

I'll be honest I know nothing about him, but that we've just smashed our transfer record out the blue on a Brazlian makes me all fizzy in the loins.

Now where is the YouTube footage.

My fanny flaps are tingling as a delightful young lady said on Love Island yesterday I understand, quite appropriate in this instance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Stu on June 13, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine...

Can you not give a precis? Preferably with bullet points?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on June 13, 2019, 08:14:07 PM
Stating the blindingly obvious, but comparisons to Benteke are inevitable!
If he's anywhere near as good I will officially wet my pants!

Welcome to The Villa Wesley!!!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 08:14:19 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine...

Can you not give a precis? Preferably with bullet points?

I've invited him round to my house to give a PowerPoint presentation.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: LukeJames on June 13, 2019, 08:14:25 PM
Yes, yes this is all very well.

But where does this leave SHA forum threads on FFP?



I imagine that on the day we break our transfer record, they're too busy shitting themselves that their manager is about to walk out.

It's the Dingle threads you have to keep an eye on. They've pivoted from "them only signing Championship players for chep bay thae" to "woh do em no gud signing players like Fulham bae thae".


Some daft bastard I went to school with (Man Utd fan up until 2 years ago) has already put on facebook that he's no Raul Jiminez.

To be fair though its a pretty solid statement built on nothing but the truth.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Seb_AVFC on June 13, 2019, 08:14:33 PM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.

Ha ha, excellent work.  In a similar vein, I'd like to take credit for Mings being utterly brilliant by declaring that he'd be injured and rubbish.

Can we please bring back the Belgian Villa fan who convinced us all that Benteke was a waste of money to slag off our impending new arrival, please?

I'm still around mate. He's shite and the biggest waste of money since Benteke.

Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.

As I said a few pages back my colleague (who is a Bruges ticket holder) has been waxing lyrical about him for the last few months. I haven't seen much from him as I don't follow the domestic leagues but he's been tipped for great things over here. Let's hope he turns out to be just that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 08:15:41 PM
Fingers crossed, mate. 😊
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 08:17:00 PM
Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.

Guess they were right on Benteke in the end then.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on June 13, 2019, 08:17:06 PM
Looks meh on YouTube, which must mean he’s amazing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clampy on June 13, 2019, 08:24:47 PM
Never heard of the guy which is not always a bad thing. The fact that we kept it quiet right up until the last minute is very encouraging and pretty good going. Let's hope it gives one or two on here a bit more faith in what they are trying to do.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Arsey on June 13, 2019, 08:32:40 PM
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/06/13/aston-villa-smash-transfer-record-22m-forward-wesley-moraes/)

Quote
Aston Villa to smash transfer record on £22m forward Wesley Moraes

John Percy

13 June 2019 • 5:12pm




Aston Villa are set to smash their transfer record with the £22million signing of Club Brugge forward Wesley Moraes.

Moraes is flying into Birmingham this weekend to put the finishing touches to the move, in a huge statement of intent from Villa’s owners.

The Brazilian’s signing will eclipse the previous Villa record of an initial £18million for Darren Bent in 2011 and is subject to a medical and a work permit.

But Villa officials are understood to consider the potential deal a significant coup, with Moraes, 22, establishing a reputation as a powerful striker with an eye for goal.

Moraes featured for Brugge in the Champions League last season and it is understood the Belgian club are keen to insert a sell-on clause into the deal.

He will become the third official signing since Villa secured promotion back to the Premier League, following Jota and Anwar El Ghazi. Kortney Hause, the Wolves defender, will also complete his £3million move on his return from holiday.

Villa are also looking to sign Leeds midfielder Kalvin Phillips and Bournemouth’s Tyrone Mings as they prepare for next season.

After the play-off final win over Derby, head coach Dean Smith said: “The potential of the football club is massive.

“It feels right that Villa are in the Premier League, the history and the size of the club, the fanbase that it has, I believe it is a Premier League club and that's not me being a supporter.

“We've got two owners [Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens] who have got a lot of money, and are in it for the long haul.”


Didn’t we pay £24mil for Darren Bent or have I imagined that?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: KRS on June 13, 2019, 08:33:42 PM
Not particularly convinced by the YouTube clips either, and it sounds like he’ll be work in progress rather the finished article. We may need to sign another more experienced forward too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 08:34:51 PM
Torygraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/06/13/aston-villa-smash-transfer-record-22m-forward-wesley-moraes/)

Quote
Aston Villa to smash transfer record on £22m forward Wesley Moraes

John Percy

13 June 2019 • 5:12pm




Aston Villa are set to smash their transfer record with the £22million signing of Club Brugge forward Wesley Moraes.

Moraes is flying into Birmingham this weekend to put the finishing touches to the move, in a huge statement of intent from Villa’s owners.

The Brazilian’s signing will eclipse the previous Villa record of an initial £18million for Darren Bent in 2011 and is subject to a medical and a work permit.

But Villa officials are understood to consider the potential deal a significant coup, with Moraes, 22, establishing a reputation as a powerful striker with an eye for goal.

Moraes featured for Brugge in the Champions League last season and it is understood the Belgian club are keen to insert a sell-on clause into the deal.

He will become the third official signing since Villa secured promotion back to the Premier League, following Jota and Anwar El Ghazi. Kortney Hause, the Wolves defender, will also complete his £3million move on his return from holiday.

Villa are also looking to sign Leeds midfielder Kalvin Phillips and Bournemouth’s Tyrone Mings as they prepare for next season.

After the play-off final win over Derby, head coach Dean Smith said: “The potential of the football club is massive.

“It feels right that Villa are in the Premier League, the history and the size of the club, the fanbase that it has, I believe it is a Premier League club and that's not me being a supporter.

“We've got two owners [Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens] who have got a lot of money, and are in it for the long haul.”


Didn’t we pay £24mil for Darren Bent or have I imagined that?

£18m + more for achieving some stuff that we didn't achieve because everything quickly went to shit.

If I remember rightly, we hit one extra bit for not being relegated that season. The others for things like Champions League qualification, not so much.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: The_ads on June 13, 2019, 08:36:39 PM
Tell you what I’m glad about. I’m glad we have a proper scouting structure in place and a dossier of this guys ability by a load of respected scouts as oppose to the numpties on here judging a players ability on the strength of a 3 min clip on YouTube.


Seem to remember Tonev looking brilliant. That went well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 13, 2019, 08:46:18 PM
I know fuck all of him bar YouTube. He looks a bit Benteke to me though and that will do just fine.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine...

Can you not give a precis? Preferably with bullet points?

I've invited him round to my house to give a PowerPoint presentation.

You get points for:

- Costing a lot of money
- Earning a lot of money
- Playing in a decent league
- Playing in the Champions League
- Playing for an international team who aren't utterly shit.  Good job we bought John McGinn when we did.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 08:53:23 PM

Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.


Can you be a 'journeyman' at the tender age of 21?  That term is normally used for an older, not especially great player who has moved to several clubs in his career.  Benteke was still essentially a youth player.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: john e on June 13, 2019, 08:54:45 PM
my 11 year old knew exactly who he was to my surprise as I’ve never heard of him

Apparently on the Fifa game he’s there best player,
so all you need is a Playstation game and you can be a top scout without putting the air miles in

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Newby on June 13, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
I cut and paste the below from the FA site in the speculation thread, now that he's actually signed, I'll post it again.  Non-EU players get points for various things like costing a lot of money and being paid more than their peers, as well as playing in the Champions league etc.  I'm sure somebody at the club has totted it all up and worked out that he'll be fine...

Can you not give a precis? Preferably with bullet points?

I've invited him round to my house to give a PowerPoint presentation.

You get points for:

- Costing a lot of money
- Earning a lot of money
- Playing in a decent league
- Playing in the Champions League
- Playing for an international team who aren't utterly shit.  Good job we bought John McGinn when we did.

Sir, they are NOT bullet points!  Please get it right Risso!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 08:55:41 PM
It was another Belgian poster that was saying Benteke was shit.

But I agree with Risso, a 21 year old journeyman going nowhere is absolute nonsense. He'd just broken into the Belgian starting 11 and was scoring for starters.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: kipeye on June 13, 2019, 08:57:00 PM
We now have two morearses.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: TheMalandro on June 13, 2019, 08:57:21 PM
Congratulations for posting the best material for insomniacs  today Risso 😂
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: CT Villan on June 13, 2019, 08:59:37 PM
Excellent !

Welcome Weslinho, fingers-crossed he's more Benteke than Bowery.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: john e on June 13, 2019, 09:00:28 PM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 09:02:26 PM

Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.


Can you be a 'journeyman' at the tender age of 21?  That term is normally used for an older, not especially great player who has moved to several clubs in his career.  Benteke was still essentially a youth player.

Probably, depending on how you're using the word.

It was used to describe a jobbing worker who would get paid by the day (French, journée etc) and who wasn't skilled enough to have a proper trade. Football has obviously bastardised it to mean journey = lots moving around.

So you can technically be a journeyman and play for the same club your whole life. Or even be a young journeyman. Based on his career thus far, I don't think either definition works for young Wesley though.

I remember gregnash schooling me on the correct definition on here a decade or so ago and have remembered it ever since.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 09:02:41 PM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6

Unfair.  I don't work in insurance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: TheMalandro on June 13, 2019, 09:06:41 PM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6

Unfair.  I don't work in insurance.

True.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Legion on June 13, 2019, 09:07:34 PM
Has Abraham gone back to Chelsea for good?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 09:09:25 PM

I remember gregnash schooling me on the correct definition on here a decade or so ago and have remembered it ever since.

/facepalm
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2019, 09:15:12 PM
I like the way this has happened with literally no speculation before today (at least not any I’ve seen).
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 13, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
It can not be true as it is not out of the, we only buy British MON type players now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 13, 2019, 09:25:23 PM
Has Abraham gone back to Chelsea for good?

Ha ha, time moves swiftly on, he was known as Tammy two weeks ago
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Seb_AVFC on June 13, 2019, 09:49:59 PM

Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.


Can you be a 'journeyman' at the tender age of 21?  That term is normally used for an older, not especially great player who has moved to several clubs in his career.  Benteke was still essentially a youth player.

I guess it's because he signed for Standard twice and Genk twice with two loan spell in between by that age. Only really broke into the national team in 2012, where he was seen as Lukaku's back up. 7m back then in our transfer policy was a massive gamble.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 13, 2019, 09:54:15 PM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6

For balance, he also did the funniest post ever IMO.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Legion on June 13, 2019, 09:58:31 PM
Wheelchair?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Seb_AVFC on June 13, 2019, 10:01:58 PM
It was another Belgian poster that was saying Benteke was shit.

I wish haha, just used to post under Belgian Villain back in the day.

Anyway, I've got a very good feeling about this one.

Now we're scouting the Belgian league, Leandro Trossard should be another we really need to sign. Linked with Wolfsburg and Arsenal. Tricky winger, would link up well with Jack.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 10:03:30 PM
We definitely need at least one more winger. Ideally, two.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2019, 10:06:09 PM
Can't wait to see the lad in action.  This signing feels like your dad who has spent all his life driving good solid Volvos and Rovers, suddenly splashing out on a Lamborghini.  It's going to be expensive, might not work, but it'll be exciting and will impress all the other no marks in the area.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Holy Trinity on June 13, 2019, 10:07:53 PM

I remember gregnash schooling me on the correct definition on here a decade or so ago and have remembered it ever since.

/facepalm

What ever happened to Gregnash?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 10:09:14 PM

I remember gregnash schooling me on the correct definition on here a decade or so ago and have remembered it ever since.

/facepalm

Larf
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 10:11:02 PM
It was another Belgian poster that was saying Benteke was shit.

I wish haha, just used to post under Belgian Villain back in the day.

Anyway, I've got a very good feeling about this one.

Now we're scouting the Belgian league, Leandro Trossard should be another we really need to sign. Linked with Wolfsburg and Arsenal. Tricky winger, would link up well with Jack.

Nope it was someone else. They reckoned he was worth a million max and offered to buy people pints if he was anything but shit for us. Don't think they posted on here again after about October.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 10:31:02 PM
It was another Belgian poster that was saying Benteke was shit.

I wish haha, just used to post under Belgian Villain back in the day.

Anyway, I've got a very good feeling about this one.

Now we're scouting the Belgian league, Leandro Trossard should be another we really need to sign. Linked with Wolfsburg and Arsenal. Tricky winger, would link up well with Jack.

Nope it was someone else. They reckoned he was worth a million max and offered to buy people pints if he was anything but shit for us. Don't think they posted on here again after about October.

Seb (under his old name) was the initial Benteke sceptic. I stopped trawling at his first goal as it seemed like everyone loved him from there on.

I think the touted 7m is indeed way too much for him. 4 max with addons would have been fair. Im not convinced by him either, but a nasty big bastard like him can cause problems for defences... And on the plus side, remember Jelavic. Not good enough in Belgium and now setting the world alight in the epl. Here's hoping.

Edit - this exchange make me chuckle though. Hindsight is a good thing.

We still have not seen Jordan Bowery. Another Lambert gem ??

Lets see if he starts knocking them in in the reserves then yes maybe
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 10:36:41 PM
I really can't believe Villa spent his much money on this player. He really sucks.

But HEY, let's give him the benefit of the doubts, no?

This must be the other Belgian poster. Click on the quote and you can see similar posts from him about how rubbish Benteke was gonna be.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 10:36:57 PM
I know. Sorry. But I'm from Belgium, seen him playing every weekend (IF he played). 8 million, can't believe it. If Villa payed 1 million I could understand. But 8?? No, absolutely not. Although I hope he'll make the best of it. But still then, 8 is way to much for what he's proven so far. 1 million is.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 10:39:31 PM
This quoteathon contains the other posts...

He "sucks"?

That's totally not cool man.

Bummer.
I know. Sorry. But I'm from Belgium, seen him playing every weekend (IF he played). 8 million, can't believe it. If Villa payed 1 million I could understand. But 8?? No, absolutely not. Although I hope he'll make the best of it. But still then, 8 is way to much for what he's proven so far. 1 million is.

it is alot for a 21 year old so is 35 million for Carroll 15 million for fletcher  but this is where we are.  He has a lot of time to develop   
True, but if Benteke becomes a top player at Villa, I'll buy you 5 drinks. And I really hope I can pay them. But I hope you understand I'm not that confident at this moment as I've seen him playing in Belgium for some games.
But I really hope he'll make it. But I'm just not that confident.

You have the advantage there mate , but fingers crossed on my 5 drinks  ;)
I really hope to give them to you someday :-)
Benteke has a lot of progress to make off course, would be good for Villa AND Belgium.

Hope to visit Villa again soon again. But first it will be a Newcastle visit with Club Brugge I think :(
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 10:40:49 PM
Either way, Seb is in the clear! And I thought Ireland and N'Zogbia were gonna be good and that we should have signed Bentley instead of Milner so I can't really criticise.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2019, 10:41:48 PM
I know. Sorry. But I'm from Belgium, seen him playing every weekend (IF he played). 8 million, can't believe it. If Villa payed 1 million I could understand. But 8?? No, absolutely not. Although I hope he'll make the best of it. But still then, 8 is way to much for what he's proven so far. 1 million is.

That'll learn me not to start a couple of pages in. Didn't think anyone could possible go off the rails after only half a dozen posts on the thread...

Quite amusing that he was a Brugge fan. Probably even more annoyed now we've taken Wesley off them.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Either way, Seb is in the clear! And I thought Ireland and N'Zogbia were gonna be good and that we should have signed Bentley instead of Milner so I can't really criticise.

I thought Beye would be a useful signing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Seb_AVFC on June 13, 2019, 10:51:17 PM
Back on the Wesley subject most reactions I get is that we overpaid a fair bit, but I think that's down to the fact it's the biggest transfer fee ever paid Belgian history.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
Either way, Seb is in the clear! And I thought Ireland and N'Zogbia were gonna be good and that we should have signed Bentley instead of Milner so I can't really criticise.

I thought Beye would be a useful signing.

I still can't remember his name unless I imagine that General Melchett is saying it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: john e on June 13, 2019, 11:00:58 PM
I don’t get why some people have said that his you-tube goal video isn’t that great it looks pretty good to me

on the same subject I wasn’t all that impressed with Maupay’s Vid though,
 to many easy tap ins, pens and loads of rebound goals for me
I know fox in the box and being in the right place...etc but looked a bit lucky to me not sure he’s what we need

(Bet we’ll go and sign him now and I will have to backtrack like fuck when he scores bucket loads)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 13, 2019, 11:01:00 PM
Either way, Seb is in the clear! And I thought Ireland and N'Zogbia were gonna be good and that we should have signed Bentley instead of Milner so I can't really criticise.

I thought Beye would be a useful signing.

He was. We were just lucky none of our other 5 right backs got injured at the same time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Holy Trinity on June 13, 2019, 11:01:35 PM
This lad was linked with arsenal and west ham in January and west ham and Lazio this window...

You have to pay the going rate for players and much like innocent until proven guilty hes worth every penny unless he flops!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:04:33 PM
True. Seems like we saw something in Benteke that noone else did and so paid a fee that wasn't particularly massive, even if some did still say we overpaid at the time.

This bloke seems to have had half of Europe taking an interest so you are always going to have to pay mad dosh to get him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Holy Trinity on June 13, 2019, 11:15:35 PM
For what it's worth I think he will struggle in the prem as hes a bit slow and prem defenders are much better than pro league players but 10 goals this season would be a success in my eyes with an eye for 15 ish in his second season.
So with that in mind I think we need a proven goal scorer also to take the pressure off
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:17:17 PM
I'd be happy with Maupay, too. Play whichever one is in better form, and rotate them from time to time. If we get lucky and they both turn out to be amazing, figure out a formation to include both.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 11:20:06 PM
I'd be happy with Maupay, too. Play whichever one is in better form, and rotate them from time to time. If we get lucky and they both turn out to be amazing, figure out a formation to include both.

Welcome back Mr Bruce.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
Thanks. Gonna need to find a new penalty taker now wor Glenn has gone. I'll get on it just as soon as I've finished my latest detective novel, "LEFT BACK!"
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Holy Trinity on June 13, 2019, 11:22:55 PM
I would love this too because both would have great potential sell on value and both could theoretically play together as a big man little man combo when needed.

A touch of gabby and carew about it. Would allow us to change formation in games against smaller team who park the bus against us.

Apart from a chronic lack of defense (I'm sure both mings and hause have signed all be it on a gentleman's agreement) but we still need 1 more CB and a lb but we are starting to look like a real team on the up
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:29:39 PM
I would love this too because both would have great potential sell on value and both could theoretically play together as a big man little man combo when needed.

A touch of gabby and carew about it. Would allow us to change formation in games against smaller team who park the bus against us.

Apart from a chronic lack of defense (I'm sure both mings and hause have signed all be it on a gentleman's agreement) but we still need 1 more CB and a lb but we are starting to look like a real team on the up

You were doing so well. 😥
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2019, 11:31:47 PM
Has Abraham gone back to Chelsea for good?
Well he intimated that he was leaving to be part of  Chelsea and said if I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2019, 11:42:49 PM
Has Abraham gone back to Chelsea for good?
Well he intimated that he was leaving to be part of  Chelsea and said if I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere.

I agree with Aftab.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:44:18 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Monty on June 13, 2019, 11:45:38 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

Kind of heartwarming that Villans abroad will check h&v even before checking the club website.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:47:26 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

It's a done deal, subject to him being granted a work permit. Given the fee, his wages and his appearances in the Champions League Group Stage and the Europa League Last 32 last season, that should be a formality.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:49:18 PM
To be fair Twitter won but this was next
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2019, 11:49:34 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

Nope, it's a 14 page joke as we knew you'd be checking in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:50:29 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

It's a done deal, subject to him being granted a work permit. Given the fee, his wages and his appearances in the Champions League Group Stage and the Europa League Last 32 last season, that should be a formality

Cheers .
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2019, 11:51:21 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

Nope, it's a 14 page joke as we knew you'd be checking in.

Don't drink the water! We've tried foreign, it didn't work.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:51:57 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

Nope, it's a 14 page joke as we knew you'd be checking in.

Everyone loves a dickhead
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 13, 2019, 11:52:59 PM
I wish that were true. 🙁
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2019, 11:53:26 PM
I’m on holiday is this true or not we’ve been linked with that many people this last week I can’t get my head round it.

Nope, it's a 14 page joke as we knew you'd be checking in.

Everyone loves a dickhead

I hope so.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:56:11 PM
Goodbye my lovers it’s been emotional
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 13, 2019, 11:57:52 PM
Who would have thought our wezza would have done this much damage. I’m crying
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: adrenachrome on June 14, 2019, 12:14:06 AM
"It's been emotional" seems to be a new valediction on the internet.

What does it mean?

Thee was a Spice Girls song in which Scary sung this:

Now you tell me that you've fallen in love
Well I never ever thought that would be, ay
This time you gotta take it easy
Throwing far too much emotions at me
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 14, 2019, 12:21:22 AM
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 14, 2019, 12:22:22 AM
Wheelchair?

Yep.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: purpletrousers on June 14, 2019, 12:24:04 AM
Monty is clearly the real hero in this story. In around two hours going from:

We're being linked with good players and all but I'm concerned by the parochialism to be honest. All the proper links have been English for one thing - not just playing in England but actually English. I do not want a repeat of Monism.

To breaking our transfer record on a new Brazilian striker.

Excellent work all around.

Ha ha, excellent work.  In a similar vein, I'd like to take credit for Mings being utterly brilliant by declaring that he'd be injured and rubbish.

Can we please bring back the Belgian Villa fan who convinced us all that Benteke was a waste of money to slag off our impending new arrival, please?

I'm still around mate. He's shite and the biggest waste of money since Benteke.

Joking aside, back in the day Benteke was seen as a bit of a journeyman striker going nowhere, whereas Wesley's been tipped for a big move this year.

As I said a few pages back my colleague (who is a Bruges ticket holder) has been waxing lyrical about him for the last few months. I haven't seen much from him as I don't follow the domestic leagues but he's been tipped for great things over here. Let's hope he turns out to be just that.

More importantly Seb you managed to what’s app me asking for London curry house recommendations and not even *mentioning* we’d signed a Brazilian striker tipped for great things! Am only just catching up after a tough day.I trust you found Brick Lane? ;)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 14, 2019, 12:26:14 AM
I wish that were true. 🙁

I still love you!  :-*
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 14, 2019, 12:34:55 AM
Ah, shucks. 🙃
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 14, 2019, 12:41:49 AM
Have we signed or not
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 14, 2019, 12:42:32 AM
Sorry forgot the hymm
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 14, 2019, 12:44:19 AM
Meant hymn San Miguel fuks me up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 14, 2019, 12:44:22 AM
I think it's reasonable to assume that this holiday is all inclusive...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 14, 2019, 12:45:05 AM
I reckon we should sign this Miguel fella.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 14, 2019, 12:48:01 AM
I think it's reasonable to assume that this holiday is all inclusive...

If it was all inclusive I’d be spark out by now. Estrelha and San Miguel don’t fuk about. Thanks though
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Uknowthescore on June 14, 2019, 12:56:07 AM
I reckon we should sign this Miguel fella.

On my head san
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 14, 2019, 01:54:58 AM
He's from Juiz de Fora, reputedly the place with the prettiest girls in Brasil so he might find Brum a bit of a culture shock. ;)  On a more serious note, I've always found people from Minas to be the some of the nicest, most down to earth, hard working people in Brasil so hopefully no Adriano, Ronaldinho antics with booze and marching powder.

At the very least though it's very apt that a Wesleyan is moving to his spiritual home in B6 so I'm happy!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: KevinGage on June 14, 2019, 01:58:38 AM
Sorry forgot the hymm

Kum by yah, with adult nappies (shit support).

I always take that song as a declaration of independence from our incontinent lot.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Goldie.7 on June 14, 2019, 02:48:42 AM
We are not fucking about, and I love it.

It feels good man.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 14, 2019, 08:37:50 AM
This is very exciting transfer and whilst I am really pleased I'm also very nervous.  It's the first real test of our recruitment team and it is a big gamble of what I presume is a significant proportion of our transfer budget on a relatively unknown player.

This is the sort of transfer that would be a lot less risky when your're bring the player into a settled PL squad and you can afford to integrate them slowly.  In our position it feels like a punchy move relying on a youngster new to the league when we are likely to be fighting for our lives to stay up.  I think Maupay would have been a safer option.

Hopefully he'll be brilliant, but I also hope we have a contingency plans just in case he struggles to get up to speed.

With that said, welcome Wesley - really excited to see what you can do.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: kieron on June 14, 2019, 08:39:35 AM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 14, 2019, 08:49:25 AM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Border villan on June 14, 2019, 09:04:00 AM
Can't wait to see the lad in action.  This signing feels like your dad who has spent all his life driving good solid Volvos and Rovers, suddenly splashing out on a Lamborghini.
Rust riddled Rovers yes, good solid ones ........
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: manic-road on June 14, 2019, 09:08:20 AM
Don't know anything about Wesley, but hope he's a massive hit. Got to be better than Ross Mac anyway.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on June 14, 2019, 09:11:02 AM
I dont know why we're excited, Wolves fans say he's shit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 14, 2019, 09:13:13 AM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6

Unfair.  I don't work in insurance.

True.

From an Accountant? Fuck off!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 14, 2019, 09:21:34 AM
This is very exciting transfer and whilst I am really pleased I'm also very nervous.  It's the first real test of our recruitment team and it is a big gamble of what I presume is a significant proportion of our transfer budget on a relatively unknown player.

This is the sort of transfer that would be a lot less risky when your're bring the player into a settled PL squad and you can afford to integrate them slowly.  In our position it feels like a punchy move relying on a youngster new to the league when we are likely to be fighting for our lives to stay up.  I think Maupay would have been a safer option.

Hopefully he'll be brilliant, but I also hope we have a contingency plans just in case he struggles to get up to speed.

With that said, welcome Wesley - really excited to see what you can do.

Watford and Richarlison?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: simboy on June 14, 2019, 09:31:28 AM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.


I have said elsewhere that this approach doesn't really strike me as the Dean Smith approach.

I suspect DS knows an awful lot about Wesley, he will know if he fits his idea of how to attack the Premiership and whether he will fit in with the team he is trying to build. I just do no get the impression that DS is Sherwood in disguise, I suspect that he has the final say so on signings whether they are from the English game or abroad.

This lad was on Arsenal's radar in 2018, Newcastle's since at least April,  I would be gobsmacked if every manager, scout or coach worth his salt across the four divisions hadn't heard of him. If I am wrong, Smith will be out the door in the bleak Midwinter moaning about not getting his own players.

 We will see   
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 14, 2019, 09:44:50 AM
This is very exciting transfer and whilst I am really pleased I'm also very nervous.  It's the first real test of our recruitment team and it is a big gamble of what I presume is a significant proportion of our transfer budget on a relatively unknown player.

This is the sort of transfer that would be a lot less risky when your're bring the player into a settled PL squad and you can afford to integrate them slowly.  In our position it feels like a punchy move relying on a youngster new to the league when we are likely to be fighting for our lives to stay up.  I think Maupay would have been a safer option.

Hopefully he'll be brilliant, but I also hope we have a contingency plans just in case he struggles to get up to speed.

With that said, welcome Wesley - really excited to see what you can do.

Watford and Richarlison?
Yep, he turned out to be a good buy and hopefully Wesley will too.  But Watford were in their 3rd season in the PL and he was £11m, so they could prob afford to carry the risk. 

I'm not saying I think Wesley won't be a good signing, I just think it's a risky punt in our position.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 14, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
edit - wrong thread
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Nev on June 14, 2019, 09:51:45 AM
If it doesn't work then so be it, at least we've been brave and tried something. For too long, in both the way we played and how we managed the club it has been cowardly and short term.

I'd rather have this lad than a busted flush like Welbeck or Sturridge.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: JD on June 14, 2019, 09:53:19 AM
Risso now holds the record of the most boring post of all times on page 6

Unfair.  I don't work in insurance.

True.

From an Accountant? Fuck off!

I second that Chelts.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 14, 2019, 09:54:29 AM
This is very exciting transfer and whilst I am really pleased I'm also very nervous.  It's the first real test of our recruitment team and it is a big gamble of what I presume is a significant proportion of our transfer budget on a relatively unknown player.

This is the sort of transfer that would be a lot less risky when your're bring the player into a settled PL squad and you can afford to integrate them slowly.  In our position it feels like a punchy move relying on a youngster new to the league when we are likely to be fighting for our lives to stay up.  I think Maupay would have been a safer option.

Hopefully he'll be brilliant, but I also hope we have a contingency plans just in case he struggles to get up to speed.

With that said, welcome Wesley - really excited to see what you can do.

Watford and Richarlison?
Yep, he turned out to be a good buy and hopefully Wesley will too.  But Watford were in their 3rd season in the PL and he was £11m, so they could prob afford to carry the risk. 

I'm not saying I think Wesley won't be a good signing, I just think it's a risky punt in our position.

It's undoubtedly a risky punt. But I imagine, on the basis of whatever shortlist Suso / Smith drew up together, he was the best remaining option. I'm sure we enquired about Abraham and were strongly rebuffed as they won't sell anyone else now that Hazard is gone and they can't buy. I'd imagine we also made noises where Maupay is concerned, but Brentford probably slapped a 30m+ price tag on him. The next option based on our scouting etc was likely Wesley.

I'm sure there are better options out there, but in an inflated market it's very very hard to find them without spending even more money. I trust Smith. I doubt he'd have given this the green light unless he was impressed.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: JD on June 14, 2019, 10:03:52 AM
I'm really excited about this signing. Reading the transfer thread a while ago someone mentioned resigning Benteke and someone else (can't remember who but kudos to you) said that we should sign the new Benteke.
It looks like that's what we've done. I can't wait to see this young man play and I am sure he will get better and better.
We look like we mean business, it's a great feeling  8).
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 14, 2019, 10:26:42 AM
Not prolific but looks like a very good young player, voted best young player in the Belgian league last season. He looks like an ideal player to play in that central role because he can hold the ball up, bring others into it and score opportunistic goals. I grew increasingly concerned watching Abraham that he was totally incapable of this, although his goal-scoring record couldn't have been much better to be fair. Wesley on the other hand looks big, strong and pretty quick, similar to the two best strikers we've had in the past 15 years Carew and Benteke.
Lets hope he's as good, and if we can get a top quality right sided attacker playing off him with Grealish in behind and El Ghazi on the left it could be a good attacking unit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: nigel on June 14, 2019, 10:27:15 AM
For what it's worth I think he will struggle in the prem as hes a bit slow and prem defenders are much better than pro league players but 10 goals this season would be a success in my eyes with an eye for 15 ish in his second season.
So with that in mind I think we need a proven goal scorer also to take the pressure off

Their supporters think he's quick

https://www.facebook.com/274260099355971/posts/2262294173885877/
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Small Rodent on June 14, 2019, 10:50:33 AM
Dutch league may be different to the Premier League, but he’s had six big games in the Champions League against Monaco, Dortmund and Atletico Madrid, scoring twice. He’s got a few high pressure games under his wing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 14, 2019, 10:52:39 AM
Well don't know anything about him so posed the question on another forum:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/wesley-moraes.448306/#post-24273392
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Fred Crump on June 14, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
Fingers crossed he’s another Benteke ( Villa not Palace version obviously)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2019, 11:04:57 AM
Well don't know anything about him so posed the question on another forum:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/wesley-moraes.448306/#post-24273392

You've racked up 7.5K posts on a Man U forum?!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 14, 2019, 11:07:02 AM
Well don't know anything about him so posed the question on another forum:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/wesley-moraes.448306/#post-24273392

You've racked up 7.5K posts on a Man U forum?!


In less than two years.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: darren woolley on June 14, 2019, 11:21:37 AM
I don't know much about him to be honest but I trust Dean Smith so Welcome to Aston Villa Wesley
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2019, 06:28:53 PM
Apologies if I’ve missed it but when is the work permit decision expected?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dribbler on June 14, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.

It could be argued, because factually that's what happened. Your argument is peppered with phrases such as "i imagine" and "i suspect", which about sums it up, but i think most people would probably prefer to stick with the clear facts. You of course can disagree with the facts, but factually it doesn't make much difference.

Plus "Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship" isn't entirely different at all, identifying weaknesses in the squad and identifying and recruiting the right players (of skill, hunger, attitude etc) you need for that moment and to build the squad for the future is the key underlying skill here, and that plays across any league. So far they've done a brilliant job.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: adrenachrome on June 14, 2019, 10:32:32 PM
Well don't know anything about him so posed the question on another forum:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/wesley-moraes.448306/#post-24273392 (http://www.redcafe.net/threads/wesley-moraes.448306/#post-24273392)

You've racked up 7.5K posts on a Man U forum?!


In less than two years.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/113YkW9oWdtFlu/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: TheMalandro on June 15, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HzPthCX/Half-And-Half-Scarf-Man-Utd-V.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HzPthCX)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: algy on June 15, 2019, 11:17:52 AM
I know they're not popular, but i love a half and half scarf me. But only bizarre ones. have a small collection of: TNS & Legia Warsaw; Connah's Quay Nomads & Ross County; and prize possession Queens Park & SG Wattenshied, from Scottish League 2 and the German 4th division respectively.

Plus my old Villa/Celtic hat from the 1980s.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 15, 2019, 11:19:36 AM
Need Clyde to somehow play Villa. Then I would buy a half and half scarf
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 15, 2019, 11:26:44 AM
I know they're not popular, but i love a half and half scarf me. But only bizarre ones. have a small collection of: TNS & Legia Warsaw; Connah's Quay Nomads & Ross County; and prize possession Queens Park & SG Wattenshied, from Scottish League 2 and the German 4th division respectively.

Plus my old Villa/Celtic hat from the 1980s.

Half and half games for matches in Europe or for friendlies against foreign opposition are acceptable, IMO.

Anyone buying a half and half scarf for a league game needs stabbing in the face, though. I don't think I'm being too harsh.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 15, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
Someone more entrepreneurial than me should make and get the club shop to sell retro half n half scarves:
Villa-Santos
Villa-Antwerp
Villa-Bayern
Villa-Barca
Etc...

For a premium you could also have a one-off edition for your first home game.

Then once it becomes a success at the Villa and, as always, the neighbours want to follow our lead, untold riches await as you shift 100,000 Wolves-Honved and quarter of a million Blues-Bruges.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 15, 2019, 11:37:17 AM
Wonder how long it will be before sad twats are wearing half and half Blose/Coventry scarves around Chelmsley Wood?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on June 15, 2019, 06:10:48 PM
I don't understand the economics of the half and half scarf.  Who is making these things?  Do they get shipped over from Asia? How do they know how many to make?  Do they just make loads of full size scarves for each team, and then sew them to halves of other team's scarves; or are they fully knitted that way? Then there's the distribution chain.

Some of them seem to be for specific games, with the date on it - what if the game is postponed/rearranged?  Must be a lot of wastage.

I understand they're meant as souvenirs for neutrals/casuals/tourists, but I can't see how they can make any money for it to be worthwhile.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on June 15, 2019, 06:12:19 PM
Wonder how long it will be before sad twats are wearing half and half Blose/Coventry scarves around Chelmsley Wood?

I've always said they should just merge and form one club.  They can take half of each clubs name, and call themselves Coventry City.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: robbo1874 on June 15, 2019, 06:30:04 PM
Very true. Coventry are just a bigger version of blues.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: LeeB on June 15, 2019, 08:14:31 PM
Very true. Coventry are just a bigger version of blues.

If they combined their trophy hauls they'd be biggger than er, Bury.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 15, 2019, 09:54:01 PM
Don't diss the Shakers. They have two F.A.Cup wins that they can legitimately put on the Honours page of their diary.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 16, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
Yes, Bury have won more than Coventry and Blues combined.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 16, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
Talking of those sorts of things; bit of trivia. Did you know that if we had failed to get promoted last season, next season Liverpool would have matched Aston Villa for seasons in the top flight? Would have been joint second behind Everton. As it stands they're still third and we're still second outright.
As for Birmingham City, they failed to make the top 20, they're 21st on the list. Coventry City are 28th on the list, which makes even more of a mockery of their pseudo 'rivalry' they had with us in the 90's.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 16, 2019, 09:46:18 AM
Points wise, it looks like this as the top 30;

1. Liverpool - 6,833
2. Arsenal - 6,711
3. Everton - 6,642
4. Man Utd - 6,356
5. Villa - 5,897
6. Man City - 5,220
7. Spurs - 5,049
8. Chelsea - 5,029
9. Newcastle - 4,848
10. Sunderland - 4,560
11. West Brom 4,065
12. Blackburn Rovers 3,702
13. Bolton Wanderers 3,692
14. Sheffield Wednesday 3,552
15. Wolverhampton Wanderers 3,429
16. Derby County 3,303
17. Sheffield United 3,173
18. West Ham United 3,127
19. Middlesbrough 3,065
20. Leeds United 3,061
21. Burnley  2,996
22. Nottingham Forest 2,949
23. Stoke City 2,917
24. Birmingham City 2,755
25. Leicester City 2,570
26. Preston North End 2,403
27. Southampton 2,123
28. Huddersfield Town 1,808
29. Portsmouth 1,765
30. Coventry City 1,686
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: exigo on June 16, 2019, 05:44:06 PM
So has matey been spotted getting off a jet marked GB-AVFC at Birmingham Airport yet, box of Belgian chocolate and a bottle of duty free rum in hand?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: four fornicholl on June 16, 2019, 05:49:04 PM
Thought he was being announced this weekend, no sightings yet then?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: tony scott on June 16, 2019, 10:50:32 PM
Half and half ,hands up I’ve got one ,strong claret and blue with reversible brown and orange, re Cleveland browns niftey little number.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 17, 2019, 10:28:23 AM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.

It could be argued, because factually that's what happened. Your argument is peppered with phrases such as "i imagine" and "i suspect", which about sums it up, but i think most people would probably prefer to stick with the clear facts. You of course can disagree with the facts, but factually it doesn't make much difference.

Plus "Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship" isn't entirely different at all, identifying weaknesses in the squad and identifying and recruiting the right players (of skill, hunger, attitude etc) you need for that moment and to build the squad for the future is the key underlying skill here, and that plays across any league. So far they've done a brilliant job.
Right, so you don't think identifying English based players familiar with the Championship and / or Premier League is easier / less risky than buying a Belgium based Brazilian striker who most people in England won't have heard of before a few days ago?

OK, right you are...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on June 17, 2019, 11:01:36 AM
To be fair until this season we’d done a good job of showing it’s harder than people think to put very good championship players together in a way that works.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 17, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.


If Smith paid enough attention to be familiar with a player who'd made 10 league starts in the preceding 3½ years, and another with 7 minutes of league football in the previous 18 months, I don't see it as much of a leap to suspect he might be aware of a young (definitely Smith's bag) striker with Champions League goals to his name.

Not saying he definitely was, nor wasn't. But it does all have me believing people at the club are actually doing their homework.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 17, 2019, 11:41:46 AM
OK.  All I said it that I thought it was a bit risky and the first real test of our recruitment team.  I accept the acquisitions of Mings and Hause were excellent business and yes you're right they weren't obvious signings at the time.  This one feels a bit different to me and it will be interesting to see if we've pulled off a coup.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 17, 2019, 11:47:24 AM
I know Dean is "only" head coach, but I'm sure he'll have a weekly meeting with Pitarch etc where they discuss potential targets and how they'll fit into the team.  I also think it's a bit insulting to suggest that a modern coach like Smith wouldn't have heard of a player just because he plays in Belgium.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: andrew08 on June 17, 2019, 11:47:56 AM
It can’t be all that hard to identify strikers that have already emerged though can it?

1. Google all the European leagues goal scoring charts
2. Forget Germany, Italy and any one who plays for the two Spanish giants or PSG.
3. Find out how old they are.
4. Watch em on You Tube.
5. Find the responsible agent
6. Check google again for any wrong doing
7. Double wages.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on June 17, 2019, 12:04:42 PM
I think there have been some high profile examples of players foisted on coaches and associated fallout but I don't see any signs that we are in that situation.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Singapore Villa on June 17, 2019, 12:14:23 PM
It can’t be all that hard to identify strikers that have already emerged though can it?

1. Google all the European leagues goal scoring charts
2. Forget Germany, Italy and any one who plays for the two Spanish giants or PSG.
3. Find out how old they are.
4. Watch em on You Tube.
5. Find the responsible agent
6. Check google again for any wrong doing
7. Double wages.



Haha.  Love it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: algy on June 17, 2019, 12:20:14 PM
OK.  All I said it that I thought it was a bit risky and the first real test of our recruitment team.  I accept the acquisitions of Mings and Hause were excellent business and yes you're right they weren't obvious signings at the time.  This one feels a bit different to me and it will be interesting to see if we've pulled off a coup.
Both Mings & Hause were signed on loan too, so were low risk in as much as if they'd been useless, we'd not be lumbered with them.  Buying an untested player permanently for £22m is a bigger risk whatever way you look at it.

Though I'd be surprised if the homework hasn't been done on him, and he looks a decent player who'd fit in well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 17, 2019, 12:36:37 PM
I would always prefer to take a punt on an "unknown" that may or may not become a gem than some of the money we have wasted previously on experienced , older players.

And I know we have been away for a while but £22mil is not a great deal in the prem - we are being quoted that for Championship players
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: simboy on June 17, 2019, 12:38:35 PM
It can’t be all that hard to identify strikers that have already emerged though can it?

1. Google all the European leagues goal scoring charts
2. Forget Germany, Italy and any one who plays for the two Spanish giants or PSG.
3. Find out how old they are.
4. Watch em on You Tube.
5. Find the responsible agent
6. Check google again for any wrong doing
7. Double wages.





You are Tim Sherwood/Steve Bruce/Roberto Di Matteo/Paul Lambert/Alex McLeish  and I claim my £10 ...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 17, 2019, 12:44:43 PM
Read somewhere over the weekend that we should have clearance by the end of this week.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: dave shelley on June 17, 2019, 12:44:59 PM
It can’t be all that hard to identify strikers that have already emerged though can it?

1. Google all the European leagues goal scoring charts
2. Forget Germany, Italy and any one who plays for the two Spanish giants or PSG.
3. Find out how old they are.
4. Watch em on You Tube.
5. Find the responsible agent
6. Check google again for any wrong doing
7. Double wages.





You are Tim Sherwood/Steve Bruce/Roberto Di Matteo/Paul Lambert/Alex McLeish  and I claim my £10 ...

See, even the prize money has gone up.  It used to be that when identifying suspects we could only claim a fiver.   :)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 17, 2019, 12:52:57 PM
I reckon that's more scouting that Tim Sherwood ever did, to be honest.

"Right, I used to play for Blackburn so let's sign a Blackburn forward. Oh and Micah Richards and Joleon Lescott are still good, yeah?"
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VILLA MOLE on June 17, 2019, 01:01:35 PM
I reckon that's more scouting that Tim Sherwood ever did, to be honest.

"Right, I used to play for Blackburn so let's sign a Blackburn forward. Oh and Micah Richards and Joleon Lescott are still good, yeah?"




we should be able to take him to court for those purchases
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: andrew08 on June 17, 2019, 01:16:42 PM
It can’t be all that hard to identify strikers that have already emerged though can it?

1. Google all the European leagues goal scoring charts
2. Forget Germany, Italy and any one who plays for the two Spanish giants or PSG.
3. Find out how old they are.
4. Watch em on You Tube.
5. Find the responsible agent
6. Check google again for any wrong doing
7. Double wages.





You are Tim Sherwood/Steve Bruce/Roberto Di Matteo/Paul Lambert/Alex McLeish  and I claim my £10 ...

Happy with that.... £2million a year, 4 year contract. I’d last until early September I reckon😉
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 17, 2019, 01:58:24 PM
I know Dean is "only" head coach, but I'm sure he'll have a weekly meeting with Pitarch etc where they discuss potential targets and how they'll fit into the team.  I also think it's a bit insulting to suggest that a modern coach like Smith wouldn't have heard of a player just because he plays in Belgium.

If anyone really believes Smith hadn't heard of Wesley Moraes until last week from far off Belgium, then I guess he was massively lucky while at Brentford he found Maupay, Barbet & Benrahma from the distant French empire.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 17, 2019, 01:58:59 PM
It could be argued that the first real test of our recruitment team was to shore up our fragile defence, and they came through that with flying colours.
It could be argued, but I'd disagree.  Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship is entirely different.  Deano was clearly familiar with Mings and Hause and I imagine he was involved in identifying & recruiting them.  I suspect he'd never heard of Wesley.

It could be argued, because factually that's what happened. Your argument is peppered with phrases such as "i imagine" and "i suspect", which about sums it up, but i think most people would probably prefer to stick with the clear facts. You of course can disagree with the facts, but factually it doesn't make much difference.

Plus "Picking up defenders familiar with English football and the Championship" isn't entirely different at all, identifying weaknesses in the squad and identifying and recruiting the right players (of skill, hunger, attitude etc) you need for that moment and to build the squad for the future is the key underlying skill here, and that plays across any league. So far they've done a brilliant job.
Right, so you don't think identifying English based players familiar with the Championship and / or Premier League is easier / less risky than buying a Belgium based Brazilian striker who most people in England won't have heard of before a few days ago?

OK, right you are...

Whilst I'm not completely disagree with your logic and different positions may give a different outlook, let's compare strikers purchased;
Strikers from overseas last 20 ish years...
Balaban
Nilis (looked good before the injury)
Angel
Allback
Carew
Benteke
Ayew
Weimann
Helanius

Strikers from English leagues;
Dublin
Baros
Harewood
Bent
Gestede
McCormack
Kodjia
Hogan
Bowery

And then compare transfer fees as well (The English league lot were nearly twice as much) I think we've done pretty well in the past from overseas strikers in overall comparison. Not a massive difference but for starters the 2 best we've had in that time came from the overseas pot.
I'm probably missing some, but you get the point.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ger Regan on June 17, 2019, 02:08:25 PM
I know Dean is "only" head coach, but I'm sure he'll have a weekly meeting with Pitarch etc where they discuss potential targets and how they'll fit into the team.  I also think it's a bit insulting to suggest that a modern coach like Smith wouldn't have heard of a player just because he plays in Belgium.

If anyone really believes Smith hadn't heard of Wesley Moraes until last week from far off Belgium, then I guess he was massively lucky while at Brentford he found Maupay, Barbet & Benrahma from the distant French empire.
This isn't to downplay Smith's role, but isn't it well-established that Brentford's director of football (or whatever they're called this week) was the driving force behind recruitment? That's not to say Smith didn't have the final say in whether they signed someone (in fact i'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case), but I'd imagine it was the DoF along with their scouts who unearthed the players you mentioned. In terms of Wesley, I'd imagine he's been on our radar for a good number of months.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 17, 2019, 02:22:55 PM
I know Dean is "only" head coach, but I'm sure he'll have a weekly meeting with Pitarch etc where they discuss potential targets and how they'll fit into the team.  I also think it's a bit insulting to suggest that a modern coach like Smith wouldn't have heard of a player just because he plays in Belgium.

If anyone really believes Smith hadn't heard of Wesley Moraes until last week from far off Belgium, then I guess he was massively lucky while at Brentford he found Maupay, Barbet & Benrahma from the distant French empire.
This isn't to downplay Smith's role, but isn't it well-established that Brentford's director of football (or whatever they're called this week) was the driving force behind recruitment? That's not to say Smith didn't have the final say in whether they signed someone (in fact i'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case), but I'd imagine it was the DoF along with their scouts who unearthed the players you mentioned. In terms of Wesley, I'd imagine he's been on our radar for a good number of months.

You might be right on that but I cannot imagine that Dean Smith isn't clued in. Especially to leagues like Belgium and in his case at Brentford, France where there are some seriously good players at a fraction of the price. Which for a club like Brentford is critical to help unearth talent. This kid isn't some secret. He's been up and coming for a little while now and it wouldn't be a shock if he was already known to Smith but out of his price range at Brentford when they looked at him.

I'm delighted that we have scouts and DoF out there doing the bulk of the work, but I find Dean Smith to be a studier of the game and it wouldn't be surprise given he's had to work with limited resources in the past that he has a deeper knowledge of the game outside of the UK.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ger Regan on June 17, 2019, 02:48:00 PM
Yeah, I'd agree with you on a lot of that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: nigel on June 17, 2019, 02:58:08 PM
Wonder how long it will be before sad twats are wearing half and half Blose/Coventry scarves around Chelmsley Wood?

I've always said they should just merge and form one club.  They can take half of each clubs name, and call themselves Coventry City.

I knew that was coming, but, it still made me titter  :)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: SaddVillan on June 17, 2019, 03:10:21 PM
In terms of tempting players to join Villa from abroad, it's worth looking at the average salaries across the major European leagues:
These figures for 2018 are taken from Sporting Intelligence's annual review (https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf).

England - EPL £2.99m
Spain - La Liga £2.20m
Italy - Serie A £1.52m
Germany - Bundesliga £1.40m
France - La Ligue £990k
Turkey - Super Lig £657k
Belgium - Jupiler 1 £306k
Portugal - Primeira Liga £272k
Switzerland - Super League £246k
Netherlands - Erdevsie £246k
Austria - Bundesliga - £177k
Scotland - Premier league  £176k
Denmark - Superliga £120k
Sweden - Allsvenkan -£87k

Below France (at £19k per week - and it is most likely that their figure is skewed by the mega money that PSG pays to its top players), the rest of the leagues pay relatively low salaries in comparison to the Prem.

This explains why from a financial perspective moving to England is such an attraction to players from most of the leagues in Europe.

If we factor in the relative poverty of the clubs in the leagues excluding Spain, Italy and Germany, then it's pretty easy to see why decent players can be picked up for relatively low transfer fees.

A decent scouting system should be able to find players who fit the bill in terms of age, attitude and skills etc. and who represent good value for money on whom it is worth taking a bet.

Brentford seem to have had a knack of doing it and Wolves seem to have managed pretty well last season.

Let's hope that we can do the same.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Bad English on June 17, 2019, 10:36:02 PM
Have a look at the budgets of Ligue 1 clubs in France (https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Le-classement-des-budgets-des-clubs-de-ligue-1-en-2018-2019/929629) last year. Outside of the top 4 clubs (PSG, Lyon, Monaco, Marseille) the amounts are paltry.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: kieron on June 18, 2019, 01:05:28 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-wesley-moraes-arrived-at-aston-villa-via-brazil-slovakia-and-belgium-6pcslldbn?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1560857123

Quote
Wesley Moraes had never played on a proper football pitch until about seven years ago but that is the least remarkable part of the forward’s story from poverty in Brazil to become Aston Villa’s record signing. Villa have agreed to pay Club Brugge £22 million, eclipsing the £18 million they paid for Darren Bent in 2011.

A brief précis of Moraes life is that his father died from a brain tumour when he was nine, he had an unplanned son at the age of 15 and a daughter a year later. Two years later he was working on an assembly line sorting screws and bolts, earning the equivalent of less than £150 a month, to support his family. He started to play football more seriously around 15 or 16 and after various trials he arrived at Brugge in Belgium via Trencin in Slovakia.

The most painful and sad moments of his life have been captured in tattoos on his body. Paulo, his father, is pictured on his neck and there is also a drawing of him on his left arm which symbolises the desire to be strong and overcome adversity. His father taught him to play football. Another image depicts the loss of his sister’s son, Gustavo, and on his other arm are tattoos of the Virgin Mary, after whom his mother is named; his daughter and Fé, the Portuguese word for faith. They are references to the religious values instilled in him by mother. On his right shin is a tattoo of a football with wings.

Now 22, his experiences explain why he has searched for a father figure and has needed a lot of care and attention to keep him on the right path during his career. He joined Brugge in 2016 and initially had an eye for the nightlife. His lifestyle was poor and his diet contained too much sugar. He was taken to a supermarket and shown that he needed to buy more salad, fruit and yogurt and to avoid takeaway meals.

Moraes would send the team manager photos of the meals he cooked and the results translated into his becoming leaner, fitter and better on the pitch. Dévy Rigaux, the Brugge team manager, said: “There used to be not enough vitamins in his afternoon snacks and he sometimes just skipped breakfast.”

Early on at the Belgian club he received red cards for elbowing and swinging his arms at opponents. Brugge tried to channel his aggression in the right way, prevent him reacting and made him calmer.

In a game against Antwerp he played with tape on his hands, without having an injury, as a reminder to him not to respond. He showed he was fairly fast but poor in the air despite standing at 6ft 3in. Brugge worked on his heading ability, making him practise for hours with Philippe Clement, the assistant coach. It bore results and Moraes scored 13 and 11 league goals in the past two seasons, respectively.

Moving to England will seem a world away from his upbringing in Brazil. He grew up in Juiz de Fora, a city in southeastern Brazil, about 200 kilometres from Rio de Janeiro. His father was a midfielder who although not professional, made money from the game. He was injured one day and later was partially disabled and used the benefits to support his family before his death. “After his death, I almost broke,” Moraes has said. “He did everything for me. And he taught me to play football.”

When Moraes became a father at 15 to Yan, an abortion was not possible as he said it would haunt him. Maria Eduarda, a daughter, followed a year later.

At the time becoming a professional footballer was unimaginable. He played four-a-side indoor matches and his trials came to nothing at various clubs in Brazil. Eventually he was picked up by Itabuna Esporte Clube, in the sixth tier and based in Itabuna, Bahia state, and did well enough to be sent for trials at Atlético Madrid in Spain and Nancy in France. They ended fruitless and he returned home to work in a factory sorting screws.

Then a chance opportunity came when he was spotted by Paulo Nehmy, an agent who has become his second father. Nehmy suggested him to Trencín in Slovakia and they offered him a place in the Under-19 side and then a contract. They had a cosmopolitan academy of Chinese, Dutch, Nigerian and Serbian players and wanted to turn him into a classic No 9 striker.

Trencín is a city with a population of about 55,000 in western Slovakia, about 120 kilometres from Bratislava, near the border with the Czech Republic. He was helped to adapt to his new surroundings by Ramon and Jairo da Silva, two fellow Brazilians, and learnt English playing with James Lawrence, the Wales defender who had previously spent two years at Arsenal and now plays for Anderlecht. Trencin, who sold him to Brugge for €1 million (£900,000), has been a youth pool for Belgian clubs in recent years. They have nurtured the likes of Leon Bailey, Samuel Kalu and Lawrence.

Moraes has supported his family in Brazil and bought two apartments in his home city as an investment. His younger brothers call him Pai, Portuguese for father, by way of thanks. Rudy Heylen, the Brugge mental coach, arranged for a video message from a member of each of the player’s family before a match against Anderlecht. Moraes’s mother gave a talk and the forward cried.

Rigaux has said: “I have seen photos of his family and friends, who sit around the table in a tiny kitchen — 25 men who count on him. Sometimes we underestimate that moral pressure. He wants everyone to be proud of him and gets goosebumps when supporters chant his name. If others say he played well, you see his face light up.”
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Risso on June 18, 2019, 01:07:27 PM
Wow, powerful stuff.  We'll chant your name Wes, don't worry about that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 18, 2019, 01:10:34 PM
Fucking hell. What a sad story. He’ll have all Villa Park supporting him. Good luck Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:22:18 PM
Wow that is a tough story. We’ll support you Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 18, 2019, 01:41:21 PM
Adversity like that either breaks you or makes you.

I wonder if we have any other Portuguese speakers at the club to make him feel at home. It will not be long before he calls us home and I really hope it is a fairy tale ending for him.

Go on and be a legend young man.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Damo70 on June 18, 2019, 01:57:33 PM
In terms of tempting players to join Villa from abroad, it's worth looking at the average salaries across the major European leagues:
These figures for 2018 are taken from Sporting Intelligence's annual review (https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf).

England - EPL £2.99m
Spain - La Liga £2.20m
Italy - Serie A £1.52m
Germany - Bundesliga £1.40m
France - La Ligue £990k
Turkey - Super Lig £657k
Belgium - Jupiler 1 £306k
Portugal - Primeira Liga £272k
Switzerland - Super League £246k
Netherlands - Erdevsie £246k
Austria - Bundesliga - £177k
Scotland - Premier league  £176k
Denmark - Superliga £120k
Sweden - Allsvenkan -£87k

Below France (at £19k per week - and it is most likely that their figure is skewed by the mega money that PSG pays to its top players), the rest of the leagues pay relatively low salaries in comparison to the Prem.

This explains why from a financial perspective moving to England is such an attraction to players from most of the leagues in Europe.

If we factor in the relative poverty of the clubs in the leagues excluding Spain, Italy and Germany, then it's pretty easy to see why decent players can be picked up for relatively low transfer fees.

A decent scouting system should be able to find players who fit the bill in terms of age, attitude and skills etc. and who represent good value for money on whom it is worth taking a bet.

Brentford seem to have had a knack of doing it and Wolves seem to have managed pretty well last season.

Let's hope that we can do the same.


You have to feel sorry for the Swedish players who only earn £87,000 a year.

I think that buys you half a lager in Sweden.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Hillbilly on June 18, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
Calling Fernando Nelson...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 18, 2019, 02:01:47 PM
Calling Fernando Nelson...

He had an Alsatian and called it Aston.....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 18, 2019, 04:41:16 PM
In terms of tempting players to join Villa from abroad, it's worth looking at the average salaries across the major European leagues:
These figures for 2018 are taken from Sporting Intelligence's annual review (https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf).

England - EPL £2.99m
Spain - La Liga £2.20m
Italy - Serie A £1.52m
Germany - Bundesliga £1.40m
France - La Ligue £990k
Turkey - Super Lig £657k
Belgium - Jupiler 1 £306k
Portugal - Primeira Liga £272k
Switzerland - Super League £246k
Netherlands - Erdevsie £246k
Austria - Bundesliga - £177k
Scotland - Premier league  £176k
Denmark - Superliga £120k
Sweden - Allsvenkan -£87k

Below France (at £19k per week - and it is most likely that their figure is skewed by the mega money that PSG pays to its top players), the rest of the leagues pay relatively low salaries in comparison to the Prem.

This explains why from a financial perspective moving to England is such an attraction to players from most of the leagues in Europe.

If we factor in the relative poverty of the clubs in the leagues excluding Spain, Italy and Germany, then it's pretty easy to see why decent players can be picked up for relatively low transfer fees.

A decent scouting system should be able to find players who fit the bill in terms of age, attitude and skills etc. and who represent good value for money on whom it is worth taking a bet.

Brentford seem to have had a knack of doing it and Wolves seem to have managed pretty well last season.

Let's hope that we can do the same.


You have to feel sorry for the Swedish players who only earn £87,000 a year.

I think that buys you half a lager in Sweden.

And the corollary of that would be the chaps playing in Turkey on £657k. 7% income tax and 50p a pint.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Mister E on June 18, 2019, 05:31:16 PM
In terms of tempting players to join Villa from abroad, it's worth looking at the average salaries across the major European leagues:
These figures for 2018 are taken from Sporting Intelligence's annual review (https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf).

England - EPL £2.99m
Spain - La Liga £2.20m
Italy - Serie A £1.52m
Germany - Bundesliga £1.40m
France - La Ligue £990k
Turkey - Super Lig £657k
Belgium - Jupiler 1 £306k
Portugal - Primeira Liga £272k
Switzerland - Super League £246k
Netherlands - Erdevsie £246k
Austria - Bundesliga - £177k
Scotland - Premier league  £176k
Denmark - Superliga £120k
Sweden - Allsvenkan -£87k

Below France (at £19k per week - and it is most likely that their figure is skewed by the mega money that PSG pays to its top players), the rest of the leagues pay relatively low salaries in comparison to the Prem.

This explains why from a financial perspective moving to England is such an attraction to players from most of the leagues in Europe.

If we factor in the relative poverty of the clubs in the leagues excluding Spain, Italy and Germany, then it's pretty easy to see why decent players can be picked up for relatively low transfer fees.

A decent scouting system should be able to find players who fit the bill in terms of age, attitude and skills etc. and who represent good value for money on whom it is worth taking a bet.

Brentford seem to have had a knack of doing it and Wolves seem to have managed pretty well last season.

Let's hope that we can do the same.


You have to feel sorry for the Swedish players who only earn £87,000 a year.

I think that buys you half a lager in Sweden.

And the corollary of that would be the chaps playing in Turkey on £657k. 7% income tax and 50p a pint.
That list also supports McGinn's decision to join us last season :-)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 18, 2019, 09:12:26 PM
This WP has gone a big quiet. Knew it would have to go to the exceptional panel and he needs 5 points. Anyone know when we can expect it to be finalised?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Bad English on June 18, 2019, 09:25:13 PM
This WP has gone a big quiet. Knew it would have to go to the exceptional panel and he needs 5 points. Anyone know when we can expect it to be finalised?
What does this mean? Serious question. It reads like something out of Line of Duty.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 18, 2019, 09:30:20 PM
This WP has gone a big quiet. Knew it would have to go to the exceptional panel and he needs 5 points. Anyone know when we can expect it to be finalised?
What does this mean? Serious question. It reads like something out of Line of Duty.

🤣
Work permit news quiet
It’s going to the exceptional panel which then grants them on a points system
Anyone know when we’re  likely to have it finalised?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Bad English on June 18, 2019, 09:38:59 PM
Ah cheers! I understand now. Wine is making me useless at this point in time...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: eamonn on June 18, 2019, 09:48:46 PM
"Our" Wes already has the most interesting life story than perhaps anyone who has gone before him at Villa.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 18, 2019, 09:51:47 PM
The kid's certainly been through a lot in his 22 years.
Hope it works out for him with us.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: john e on June 18, 2019, 09:52:50 PM
my lad tells me

on fifa hes rated at 76 which is not very good at the moment

but his strengh is 95, apparently that's really really high an absolute beast

i don't know what this all means but my lad (11) seemed impressed

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Monty on June 19, 2019, 12:35:03 PM
Ah cheers! I understand now. Wine is making me useless at this point in time...

Me at most points in time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tuscans on June 19, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
my lad tells me

on fifa hes rated at 76 which is not very good at the moment

but his strengh is 95, apparently that's really really high an absolute beast

i don't know what this all means but my lad (11) seemed impressed


Super Jack is/was rated 76 on Fifa and we know how that turned out. ( I'm saying that like it means something, jeeez )
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: jwarry on June 19, 2019, 03:15:49 PM
Article in The Times yesterday...

Wesley Moraes had never played on a proper football pitch until about seven years ago but that is the least remarkable part of the forward’s journey from poverty in Brazil to become Aston Villa’s record signing. Villa have agreed to pay Club Bruges £22 million for the player, eclipsing the £18 million they paid for Darren Bent in 2011.

A brief précis of Moraes’s life is that his father died from a brain tumour when he was nine, he had an unplanned son at the age of 15 and a daughter a year later. Two years later he was working on an assembly line sorting screws and bolts, earning the equivalent of less than £150 a month, to support his family. He started to play football more seriously around 15 or 16 and after various trials he arrived at Bruges in Belgium via Trencin in Slovakia.

The most painful and sad moments of his life have been captured in tattoos on his body. Paulo, his father, is pictured on his neck and there is also a drawing of him on his left arm which symbolises the desire to be strong and overcome adversity. His father taught him to play football. Another image depicts the loss of his sister’s son, Gustavo, and on his other arm are tattoos of the Virgin Mary, after whom his mother is named; his daughter and Fé, the Portuguese word for faith. They are references to the religious values instilled in him by mother. On his right shin is a tattoo of a football with wings.

Now 22, his experiences explain why he has searched for a father figure and has needed a lot of care and attention to keep him on the right path during his career. He joined Bruges in 2016 and initially had an eye for the nightlife. His lifestyle was poor and his diet contained too much sugar. He was taken to a supermarket and shown that he needed to buy more salad, fruit and yogurt and to avoid takeaway meals.

Moraes would send the team manager photos of the meals he cooked and the results translated into his becoming leaner, fitter and better on the pitch. Dévy Rigaux, the Bruges team manager, said: “There used to be not enough vitamins in his afternoon snacks and he sometimes just skipped breakfast.”

Early on at the Belgian club he received red cards for elbowing and swinging his arms at opponents. Bruges tried to channel his aggression in the right way, prevent him reacting and made him calmer.

In a game against Antwerp he played with tape on his hands, without having an injury, as a reminder to him not to respond. He showed he was fairly fast but poor in the air despite standing at 6ft 3in. Bruges worked on his heading ability, making him practise for hours with Philippe Clement, the assistant coach. It bore results and Moraes scored 13 and 11 league goals in the past two seasons, respectively.

Moving to England will seem a world away from his upbringing in Brazil. He grew up in Juiz de Fora, a city in southeastern Brazil, about 200 kilometres from Rio de Janeiro. His father was a midfielder who although not professional, made money from the game. He became partially disabled later in life and used the benefits to support his family before his death. “After his death, I almost broke,” Moraes has said. “He did everything for me. And he taught me to play football.”

Moraes became a father at 15 to Yan — Maria Eduarda, a daughter, followed a year later. At the time becoming a professional footballer was unimaginable. He played four-a-side indoor matches and his trials came to nothing at various clubs in Brazil. Eventually he was picked up by Itabuna Esporte Clube, in the sixth tier and based in Itabuna, Bahia state, and did well enough to be sent for trials at Atlético Madrid in Spain and Nancy in France. But they ultimately ended fruitless and he returned home to work in a factory sorting screws.

Then a chance opportunity came when he was spotted by Paulo Nehmy, an agent who has become his second father. Nehmy suggested to Trencín in Slovakia that he should join them and they offered him a place in the Under-19 side and then a contract. They had a cosmopolitan academy of Chinese, Dutch, Nigerian and Serbian players and wanted to turn him into a classic No 9 striker.

Trencín is a city with a population of about 55,000 in western Slovakia, about 120km from Bratislava, near the border with the Czech Republic. He was helped to adapt to his new surroundings by Ramon and Jairo da Silva, two fellow Brazilians, and learnt English playing with James Lawrence, the Wales defender who had previously spent two years at Arsenal and now plays for Anderlecht. Trencin, who sold him to Bruges for €1 million (£900,000), has been a youth pool for Belgian clubs in recent years. They have nurtured the likes of Leon Bailey, Samuel Kalu and Lawrence.

Moraes has supported his family in Brazil and bought two apartments in his home city as an investment. His younger brothers call him Pai, Portuguese for father, by way of thanks. Rudy Heylen, the Bruges mental coach, arranged for a video message from a member of each of the player’s family before a match against Anderlecht. Moraes’s mother gave a talk and the forward cried.

Rigaux has said: “I have seen photos of his family and friends, who sit around the table in a tiny kitchen — 25 men who count on him. Sometimes we underestimate that moral pressure. He wants everyone to be proud of him and gets goosebumps when supporters chant his name. If others say he played well, you see his face light up.”
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: eamonn on June 19, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
Worth posting twice. Not being sarky.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 19, 2019, 03:49:44 PM
I'd imagine he has a certain level of English, given the cosmopolitan make up of the Slovakian team.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: jwarry on June 19, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
Worth posting twice. Not being sarky.

Oops sorry chaps I missed that 😳
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: berneboy on June 19, 2019, 07:12:34 PM
Have I missed it, has he actually signed yet?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 19, 2019, 07:22:21 PM
Work permit innit. Apparently all the other stuff is done or being done including shirt stretching, interviews etc.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 19, 2019, 07:27:11 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/vh4RG0N/EB396-FAC-CE09-4900-B929-D96-FE6008780.png) (https://ibb.co/vh4RG0N)

Allegedly it went to the panel today to decide. He needs 5 points and I’ve got him easily at 7
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Des Little on June 20, 2019, 12:09:41 AM
Let’s hope the panel aren’t the same ones that gave Deontay Wilder the draw aginst Tyson Fury, otherwise we’ll be kicking off at Spurs with Scott ‘Golden Boot’ O’Hogan upfront.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dougs Socks on June 20, 2019, 12:26:24 AM
Don't think we would have wasted our time if there was any doubt about a work permit. Our club is a lot more well run and professional behind the scenes now. This going to be one hell of a summer me thinks 8)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: mr underhill on June 20, 2019, 09:07:45 AM
great to see former players writing the geezer off before he's even joined.  Tony, i'm talking about you.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on June 20, 2019, 09:17:54 AM
You wonder if he's ever heard of him before last week, never mind seen him play.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 20, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
Caacarino's an awful eejit. I prefer to forget he ever played for Villa (or Ireland for that matter), just as he seems to
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VILLA MOLE on June 20, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Caacarino's an awful eejit. I prefer to forget he ever played for Villa (or Ireland for that matter), just as he seems to

 there is no warmth from him for villa, piss poor pundit
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: jwarry on June 20, 2019, 04:05:04 PM
Caacarino's an awful eejit. I prefer to forget he ever played for Villa (or Ireland for that matter), just as he seems to

 there is no warmth from him for villa, piss poor pundit

Agreed, it amazes me a respected paper (sic) like The Times pays him for a regular column
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2019, 04:18:06 PM
What’s his basis for writing him off? Is it the usual, tired, no Premier League experience nonsense?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Exeter 77 on June 20, 2019, 05:10:31 PM
This coming from a man who scored the grand total of 12 Villa goals in a season and a bit after being signed for three times our previous record fee. Cascarino knows all about failing as a Villa record signing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: mr underhill on June 20, 2019, 06:27:09 PM
anyone know when a decision is due on the work permit? It seems to be dragging on ominously.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clampy on June 20, 2019, 06:47:59 PM
These things often take time. I'm sure it will be done at some point.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2019, 08:18:01 PM
He won't officially join for nearly 2 weeks (July 1st) regardless of what happens so the panel aren't going to be in any rush right now. I we get to next Friday and we're still waiting then it'll look like a problem.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
There’s a podcast called statsbomb.  I don’t know much about the presenters but they are clearly scouts and stats consultants.  It’s interesting how they look at the game and it’s clear they work with a few clubs, I think Brentford are one. 

Right at the end of last weeks podcast they discussed Wesley.  In a nutshell one of the presenters had scouted him for three years.  Unfortunately his conclusion was he was very underwhelmed.

It’s quite an interesting listen generally and it’s clear more clubs are taking far more interest in this type of analysis.  Let’s hope they’re wrong about Wesley, but thought I’d mention it in case anyone is interested in this sort of geeky stuff
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2019, 06:18:36 AM
There’s a podcast called statsbomb.  I don’t know much about the presenters but they are clearly scouts and stats consultants.  It’s interesting how they look at the game and it’s clear they work with a few clubs, I think Brentford are one. 

Right at the end of last weeks podcast they discussed Wesley.  In a nutshell one of the presenters had scouted him for three years.  Unfortunately his conclusion was he was very underwhelmed.

It’s quite an interesting listen generally and it’s clear more clubs are taking far more interest in this type of analysis.  Let’s hope they’re wrong about Wesley, but thought I’d mention it in case anyone is interested in this sort of geeky stuff
Be a bit more interesting if you explained what they were  “ underwhelmed “.about.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 23, 2019, 09:09:16 AM
Well I was giving people the opportunity to listen to it if they want to and draw their own conclusions. I’m no expert on these things.

But I a nutshell as I recall it his shooting stats were average - mostly close range goals, his game involvements in terms of bring other players into play was not great.  Essentially they thought he was mainly a bit of a big lump and over priced.  They did stress that they can be wrong.

I want to stress these are not my conclusions- I know nothing about the player.  All I’ve said is it feels like a gamble if the plan is to rely on him as our main man next season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 23, 2019, 10:02:09 AM
I think we'll sign at least one more striker. Possibly for a similar fee or maybe even more.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 23, 2019, 10:07:02 AM
I think we'll sign at least one more striker. Possibly for a similar fee or maybe even more.
We'd bloody better.  I don't see any of our other strikers doing much damage.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 23, 2019, 11:24:44 AM
This coming from a man who scored the grand total of 12 Villa goals in a season and a bit after being signed for three times our previous record fee. Cascarino knows all about failing as a Villa record signing.

And he's someone who really had no excuse. He was supposed to be an upgrade on Ian Olney, similar player but with a bigger reputation and supposed higher pedigree and we hoped he'd be the difference that would push us on to the league title. He turned out to be a poor mans Olney.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on June 23, 2019, 11:30:33 AM
Were they saying number of goals from close range is considered a bad thing? You could definitely spin that the other way.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Mister E on June 23, 2019, 11:47:41 AM
There’s a podcast called statsbomb.  I don’t know much about the presenters but they are clearly scouts and stats consultants.  It’s interesting how they look at the game and it’s clear they work with a few clubs, I think Brentford are one. 

Right at the end of last weeks podcast they discussed Wesley.  In a nutshell one of the presenters had scouted him for three years.  Unfortunately his conclusion was he was very underwhelmed.

It’s quite an interesting listen generally and it’s clear more clubs are taking far more interest in this type of analysis.  Let’s hope they’re wrong about Wesley, but thought I’d mention it in case anyone is interested in this sort of geeky stuff
Thanks for the recommendation on the podcast.
James' view on this podcast is somewhat compromised when he cannot even remember what club Wesley has been purchased from, after having stated he'd been scouting him.
Seems like a strange admission, to me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 23, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
Were they saying number of goals from close range is considered a bad thing? You could definitely spin that the other way.

I guess that means Gary Lineker was shit too
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: clash city rocker on June 23, 2019, 12:51:35 PM
It does make you wonder whether the modern game has become over reliant on stats rather than good scouts who can analyse a player simply by watching him play.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: chrisw1 on June 23, 2019, 12:54:04 PM
Were they saying number of goals from close range is considered a bad thing? You could definitely spin that the other way.

I guess that means Gary Lineker was shit too
My take on their view is that they think his all round game is limited.  I guess the volume of goals wasn’t sufficient to make up for this.  If you want to interpret that as they would think Lineker was shit then fine.  But why don’t you listen to it then decide what you think of their assessment?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 23, 2019, 12:59:44 PM
There’s a podcast called statsbomb.  I don’t know much about the presenters but they are clearly scouts and stats consultants.  It’s interesting how they look at the game and it’s clear they work with a few clubs, I think Brentford are one. 

Right at the end of last weeks podcast they discussed Wesley.  In a nutshell one of the presenters had scouted him for three years.  Unfortunately his conclusion was he was very underwhelmed.

It’s quite an interesting listen generally and it’s clear more clubs are taking far more interest in this type of analysis.  Let’s hope they’re wrong about Wesley, but thought I’d mention it in case anyone is interested in this sort of geeky stuff
Thanks for the recommendation on the podcast.
James' view on this podcast is somewhat compromised when he cannot even remember what club Wesley has been purchased from, after having stated he'd been scouting him.
Seems like a strange admission, to me.

Scouted him for 3 years and was very underwhelmed! Why on earth scout him for 3 bloody years if you're not at all convinced there's something there?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 23, 2019, 01:05:02 PM
It does make you wonder whether the modern game has become over reliant on stats rather than good scouts who can analyse a player simply by watching him play.

You do indeed. There also seems a lot more big money failures than there used to be.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 23, 2019, 01:12:08 PM
When we cringe at what we paid Micah Richards, Shay Given, Scott Hogan or Ross McCormack those are our big money failures. And I know Given wasn’t a failure really but giving a 5 year deal to an older keeper was plain stupid. Especially one who wasn’t even guaranteed to be the starter for those years. That said compared to what many PL clubs have paid out in transfer, agent fees and wages those disappointments are minor. There is a whole host of massive signings that relative to the return on those investments have been a disaster.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: MalcolmP on June 23, 2019, 01:21:53 PM
Were they saying number of goals from close range is considered a bad thing? You could definitely spin that the other way.

I guess that means Gary Lineker was shit too
as was Ian Rush, Jimmy Greaves and Denis Law for whom a 12 yd strike was considered long distance!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on June 23, 2019, 01:34:40 PM
Klose, van Nistelrooy, inzaghi. There are loads. Take the point about volume but he’s young and learning and most of his stats are in one team/league/set up. But mainly I’m just highly suspicious of the whole armchair statistician scene in relation to football.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: andyh on June 23, 2019, 02:01:51 PM
How many did Tammy score last year from within 10 yards?
If it’s one of Wesley’s strengths, he’ll thrive here.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 23, 2019, 02:44:19 PM
He was still at the Belfry this weekend so guessing the permit is just taking its time. This week should be settled
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: paul_e on June 23, 2019, 03:04:50 PM
Stats have their place, being able to use them to identify people you want to watch and then having a tradiional scout give you an extra opinion seems to be the best way to work for me.

A guy at his desk looking through stats can 'field' 30-40 players a week and put together a decent quality report for 5-6 of them, a physical scout would need that much time to watch 1 player enough to form a decent opinion. So the stats approach just lets you cover a lot more ground, which is why it's become popular, I do agree that signing players purely on stats is a bad idea though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2019, 08:33:39 AM
Stats have their place, being able to use them to identify people you want to watch and then having a tradiional scout give you an extra opinion seems to be the best way to work for me.

A guy at his desk looking through stats can 'field' 30-40 players a week and put together a decent quality report for 5-6 of them, a physical scout would need that much time to watch 1 player enough to form a decent opinion. So the stats approach just lets you cover a lot more ground, which is why it's become popular, I do agree that signing players purely on stats is a bad idea though.

This is the correct approach.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 24, 2019, 09:19:39 PM
Reports suggest he had his medical on Friday so I wonder why no pictures of shirt stretching on official site
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 24, 2019, 09:27:18 PM
Reports suggest he had his medical on Friday so I wonder why no pictures of shirt stretching on official site

Because he hasn’t got work permit clearance. As soon as we get it and it appears to be a formality but even formalities can take time he’ll be stretching like a crazy man. All of that photo stuff I imagine has been done and now everyone is waiting on the official clearance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 01, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Anyone know if the work permit process is timeboxed i.e. once a submission is made, how long before a permit is issued or denied?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 01, 2019, 12:57:20 PM
Anyone know when d day is?

My mates a nose who works at the belfry and he said hes heard the application got declined and we are appealing. Now 99.9% of me thinks hes on a winde up. But it does seem to be talking a while.

Anyone have any input?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on July 01, 2019, 01:00:11 PM
He would have needed 5 points and he had 7 on the Home Office system, so I think it will be fine.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Villafirst on July 01, 2019, 01:01:48 PM
I can't understand the delay with the work permit as its been nearly 2 weeks since the deal was agreed? Is it Government cuts in the Home office dept. to blame with staff shortages??
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Edvard Remberg on July 02, 2019, 10:05:04 AM
Looks like he is about to be presented, as there are pictures of him with Jesus Pitarch
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2019, 10:13:36 AM
Looks like he is about to be presented, as there are pictures of him with Jesus Pitarch

I've just seen those too. Good stuff!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 10:14:54 AM
Where are these pictures, please?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Where are these pictures, please?

Meaning Evil has posted em. https://www.shitrag.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-striker-wesley-moraes-16516880
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Ta.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: andyh on July 02, 2019, 10:23:54 AM
Just in case you don’t want to look at that shitrag.

https://twitter.com/villaparkb6/status/1145982752895975425?s=21
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 10:25:12 AM
😊
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: mike on July 02, 2019, 10:27:58 AM
You'd think Pravada would have embargoed this until they'd got it out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: LukeJames on July 02, 2019, 10:48:00 AM
Surely these are photos from when he came over a few weeks back? The advertising board still has 32Red and 18/19 on it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: mike on July 02, 2019, 10:53:58 AM
Surely these are photos from when he came over a few weeks back? The advertising board still has 32Red and 18/19 on it

Yep, but presumably only for release once it's official.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 11:18:42 AM
All done it appears - welcome big man

Wes and Richard

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-dU2IjXoAEIkbu.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-dWf4rWsAAY0pC.jpg:large)

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on July 02, 2019, 11:23:45 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2019, 11:32:55 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?

The latter I think.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 11:46:00 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 02, 2019, 11:51:49 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.

"Wes" does not quite have the normal Brazilian "ring" to  it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 02, 2019, 11:58:51 AM
He’s gonna be called Big Wez, after the legendary Villa fan from Kingshurst.

I’ve probably only posted this because everybody at work is currently talking about his drinking ability. (Wez from Kingshurst that is, not the Brazilian one).
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 11:59:39 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.

"Wes" does not quite have the normal Brazilian "ring" to  it.

what? And Fred does?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2019, 12:06:22 PM
Ah good stuff.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: mike on July 02, 2019, 12:21:06 PM
Still not on Pravda
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 12:21:14 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.

"Wes" does not quite have the normal Brazilian "ring" to  it.

what? And Fred does?

They've definitely gone off in recent years. Fred, Cris and Wesley.

No wonder Brazil aren't what they were.

Maybe we should just call him Wesellino.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Small Rodent on July 02, 2019, 12:32:35 PM
Wesleyaninho
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: exigo on July 02, 2019, 12:40:46 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?

Hopefully, Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh on AVTV. Again, and again.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2019, 01:26:20 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.

"Wes" does not quite have the normal Brazilian "ring" to  it.

what? And Fred does?

He doesn't get many games for Newton Heath, so maybe he could join as well

Fred and Wes has a ring to it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Zouch Villa on July 02, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

You don't. He's Brazilian, he doesn't need more than one name.

"Wes" does not quite have the normal Brazilian "ring" to  it.

what? And Fred does?

He doesn't get many games for Newton Heath, so maybe he could join as well

Fred and Wes has a ring to it
And then sign Danny Rose, we'd be close a killer team....


....so sorry.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: baddowvillans on July 02, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
Arsenal are apparently signing a Brazilian who appears to have a lot less experience than Wes with no mention of a work permit issue
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 03:08:57 PM
Arsenal are apparently signing a Brazilian who appears to have a lot less experience than Wes with no mention of a work permit issue

How do you know there wasn’t one to address? They might have started the process to sign him ages ago and got all of that out of the way. We pay attention to our own transfers with far more scrutiny so it can feel like it takes forever when it really isn’t.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Singapore Villa on July 02, 2019, 03:10:09 PM
The same Arsenal that signed Arshavin about 24hrs after the transfer window had closed....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 04:10:30 PM
Arsenal are apparently signing a Brazilian who appears to have a lot less experience than Wes with no mention of a work permit issue

The Arsenal kid has Italian citizenship so doesn't need a work permit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 04:17:40 PM
Arsenal are apparently signing a Brazilian who appears to have a lot less experience than Wes with no mention of a work permit issue

The Arsenal kid has Italian citizenship so doesn't need a work permit.

And there you go.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Smirker on July 02, 2019, 05:02:24 PM
I'm not sure about this signing. I trust that the manager and coaching staff know what they're doing, it just seems a bit of a worry to me that Big Wes hasn't represented Brazil even at youth level and his scoring record is average at best. We have paid a lot of money for him. I hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be a success.

I think we probably need another striker anyway.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: CT on July 02, 2019, 06:04:34 PM
I'm not sure about this signing. I trust that the manager and coaching staff know what they're doing, it just seems a bit of a worry to me that Big Wes hasn't represented Brazil even at youth level and his scoring record is average at best. We have paid a lot of money for him. I hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be a success.

I think we probably need another striker anyway.


I agree. I'd love to get Tammy back, although I realise that's very unlikely. Wes, Kodjia and Scott O'Hogan is nowhere near enough.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-e-K3JX4AALUj1.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: john e on July 02, 2019, 06:42:42 PM
I'm not sure about this signing. I trust that the manager and coaching staff know what they're doing, it just seems a bit of a worry to me that Big Wes hasn't represented Brazil even at youth level and his scoring record is average at best. We have paid a lot of money for him. I hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be a success.

I think we probably need another striker anyway.


I agree. I'd love to get Tammy back, although I realise that's very unlikely. Wes, Kodjia and Scott O'Hogan is nowhere near enough.

Agree it’s no near good enough but I suspect it won’t be what we have when the season begins
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: paul_e on July 02, 2019, 08:15:38 PM
I'm not sure about this signing. I trust that the manager and coaching staff know what they're doing, it just seems a bit of a worry to me that Big Wes hasn't represented Brazil even at youth level and his scoring record is average at best. We have paid a lot of money for him. I hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be a success.

I think we probably need another striker anyway.


He hadn't played on a full size grass pitch until he was nearly 16, that's the main reason why he won't have played for Brazil at age group level.

He was being linked with a whole bunch of premier league and equivalent teams last summer and again in January and that was when he really didn't have a goalscoring record to speak of. We're signing him on the back of a record of 17 goals and 10 assists in 48 games. For me that's not average at all and the assists are as important as the goals for a lone striker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Smirker on July 02, 2019, 08:26:19 PM
Thanks Paul. Seems a bit more positive now. Still need another striker though I think.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: andyh on July 02, 2019, 08:54:12 PM
Hmmmmm. I recall the discussions on here about signing an unknown youngster named Benteke and the risks we were taking by gambling on someone untried at this level.

Maybe we should trust the club.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: paul_e on July 02, 2019, 08:54:32 PM
Thanks Paul. Seems a bit more positive now. Still need another striker though I think.

I agree on that, I'd like Hogan to be replaced because he's nowhere near good enough for this league. I'd prefer someone like the Portuguese guy that was linked the other day who could play with Wesley, either as a 2 or out wide, as well as being competition.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: themossman on July 02, 2019, 08:57:46 PM
Hmmmmm. I recall the discussions on here about signing an unknown youngster named Benteke and the risks we were taking by gambling on someone untried at this level.

Maybe we should trust the club.

Yep, and we were a shit show then as well so Wes will be even better.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tuscans on July 02, 2019, 09:03:26 PM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/07/02/wesley-arrives-at-aston-villa

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Matt C on July 02, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
Confirmed now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Ads on July 02, 2019, 09:04:14 PM
Welcome Big Wes!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Dazvillain on July 02, 2019, 09:05:03 PM
Work permit granted . Start training tomoz . Official club tweet
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: Tuscans on July 02, 2019, 09:05:07 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/07/02/wesley-arrives-at-aston-villa
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed, subject to work permit
Post by: kieron on July 02, 2019, 09:05:13 PM


Interview.

Remember to turn your volume up, as the club's social media team seem incapable of producing sound levels correctly.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2019, 09:09:43 PM
Welcome Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on July 02, 2019, 09:10:47 PM
You're very welcome Wesley.  Please be good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2019, 09:10:54 PM
That navy top is rather nice
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 02, 2019, 09:11:00 PM
Hopefully there's finally a WM in the area that isn't shit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villafirst on July 02, 2019, 09:11:26 PM
Welcome and good luck Wesley! Now tear up this League!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on July 02, 2019, 09:13:32 PM
Great stuff (even though it was never going to be a problem). I think this is a great signing but I hope fans give him time if he needs it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: rob_bridge on July 02, 2019, 09:16:05 PM
Good stuff. 5 in, need at least another 3
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: richtheholtender on July 02, 2019, 09:37:50 PM
Do we know how long the contract is?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2019, 09:40:53 PM
Welcome Weselino!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 02, 2019, 09:55:38 PM
Good stuff. 5 in, need at least another 3

I reckon another five in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villafirst on July 02, 2019, 10:15:55 PM
Good stuff. 5 in, need at least another 3

I reckon another five in.

Agree, we need 3 centre backs for a start. Hopefully Mings will sign soon then we need to replace Axel and Elphick. I still think there's a chance Axel will sign if Manure sign Harry Maguire from Leicester which will stifle Axel's chances.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bren'd on July 02, 2019, 10:35:24 PM
I see manu are after Maguire with an offer of £70 million. I might’ve wrong based on his current form but there’s something of a potential donkey waiting to emerge from him I feel.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tuscans on July 02, 2019, 11:47:40 PM
He's a fast bastard when he gets those long legs pumping.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on July 03, 2019, 08:30:12 AM
Who, Wes or Hazza?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dicedlam on July 03, 2019, 10:56:20 AM
Do we still have a Liaisons Officer in place at Villa? I seem to remember years ago we had someone that their specific role was to help overseas players settle and help with the language.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 03, 2019, 11:00:39 AM
Do we still have a Liaisons Officer in place at Villa? I seem to remember years ago we had someone that their specific role was to help overseas players settle and help with the language.

I remember her. Lorna Languages. She's left now, I believe, don't know if replaced.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 03, 2019, 11:06:35 AM
She went to West Ham. Not replaced as far as I know.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 03, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
Do we still have a Liaisons Officer in place at Villa? I seem to remember years ago we had someone that their specific role was to help overseas players settle and help with the language.
She was one of the redundancies, I believe, the moment we were relegated. I assume now we are back there will be a replacement.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 12:43:53 PM
I think the understanding of the requirements for players coming from abroad and the help that she provided is probably something that should be part of the culture of the club so rather than replacing her directly I wouldn't be surprised if that role is broadened out to be something that a large number of staff have as part of their job.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on July 03, 2019, 05:53:52 PM
Just noticed Big Wes has braces aswell, must be what were looking for in our new signings.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 03, 2019, 06:00:55 PM
Just so long as he shows some teeth to opposition defences.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on July 03, 2019, 08:41:03 PM
I think we need that bite in attack
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Small Rodent on July 03, 2019, 08:42:23 PM
I’m wired!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: CT on July 03, 2019, 09:08:03 PM
Definitely the jewel in the crown.

Tammy's boots will take some filling.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tayls_7 on July 03, 2019, 09:40:13 PM
He'll be such a legend one day we'll put up a plaque.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 03, 2019, 09:47:57 PM
Villa Park, especially the Holte End, will go dental when he scores.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on July 04, 2019, 07:24:59 AM
especially if he gets a brace.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 04, 2019, 10:28:55 AM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?

The latter I think.

Mor-eye-sh.

Oh and he already speaks English.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 04, 2019, 10:56:46 AM
I think Wesley will do well to fill the cavity left by Tammy's departure.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dave on July 04, 2019, 02:05:18 PM
I think Wesley will do well to fill the cavity left by Tammy's departure.

Score enough to get a plaque on the wall at Villa Park?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on July 04, 2019, 02:12:50 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?

The latter I think.

Mor-eye-sh.

Oh and he already speaks English.

Don't you say the 'eye' through your nose as well?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on July 04, 2019, 02:13:32 PM
Soon to be implanted into our Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 04, 2019, 02:15:44 PM
I'm confident Dean has the wisdom to stick to his attacking roots and keep Moraes sharp up top.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 04, 2019, 02:58:02 PM
How do you pronounce his surname?

Is it mor-a-ez or mor-a-esh?

The latter I think.

Mor-eye-sh.

Oh and he already speaks English.

Don't you say the 'eye' through your nose as well?

Not that I'm aware of Monty but each to their own. The 'eye' is of the 'e' which is pronounced as a capital 'I'.
The 'Mor' is Brazilian-Portuguese. European Portuguese would be 'Mur'.

Oh and if we want to be affectionate to Wesley we can call him Weslão - Wes - low (as in 'cow' not the Bowie album).
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on July 04, 2019, 03:02:23 PM
Ah yes big Wes. Can hear it in brummie already as well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 04, 2019, 03:49:06 PM
Images of him at training today are up now on Pravda. For anyone who's into that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 04, 2019, 03:51:29 PM
Give it 12 months and I reckon Wesley will have a Brummie accent.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on July 04, 2019, 04:38:50 PM
Sure he will do well, but there is something gnawing away in my mind.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on July 04, 2019, 08:16:42 PM
Molaraes will be great I'm sure
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 04, 2019, 08:51:01 PM
Sure he will do well, but there is something gnawing away in my mind.

I've a strange, nagging doubt too but In Deano We Trust and hope to be proved very wrong.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: john e on July 04, 2019, 08:51:44 PM
he’s one I’m looking forward to seeing
if he can get of to a scoring start in the first few games could settle him down for a good season
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Matt Collins on July 05, 2019, 06:35:32 AM
It's discontering that a lot of independent voices are sceptical. Various data experts have voiced  concerns. And I heard the Belgian journo who broke the story cite this transfer as an example of the crazy money English sides add spending on "pretty average" players. Also a bit disconcerted that I don't think I've heard Smith come out and say anything about the signing - when it's a record transfer. Was he fully behind it?

On the positive side, he does also seem to tick a lot of boxes. Including being a good foil for our attacking midfielders and that he buries a lot of crosses. Perhaps they've seen an opportunity to improve his modest goal return by getting him into the 6 yard box more. He seems to spend a lot of time deep from what I've seen
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on July 05, 2019, 09:33:25 AM
It's discontering that a lot of independent voices are sceptical. Various data experts have voiced  concerns. And I heard the Belgian journo who broke the story cite this transfer as an example of the crazy money English sides add spending on "pretty average" players. Also a bit disconcerted that I don't think I've heard Smith come out and say anything about the signing - when it's a record transfer. Was he fully behind it?

On the positive side, he does also seem to tick a lot of boxes. Including being a good foil for our attacking midfielders and that he buries a lot of crosses. Perhaps they've seen an opportunity to improve his modest goal return by getting him into the 6 yard box more. He seems to spend a lot of time deep from what I've seen
It is.  Clearly our scouting team have seen something they really like in him, but it still feels like a massive gamble with what has to be a fairly large proportion of our budget to me.  Hopefully he'll be amazing, but I've seen nothing in the various reports I've read and clips I've watched to suggest that's likely to be the case.   Still, I'm excited to see how he develops and he'll have my 100% whilst in the shirt.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Matt Collins on July 05, 2019, 11:34:50 PM
I listened to a podcast where they were very sceptical. One of the guys had scouted him a couple of years back. Said he was very promising at 19 but hadn't really pushed on

I'm all for taking a chance on players like that. But when it's your record signing...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on July 06, 2019, 12:18:40 PM
It's discontering that a lot of independent voices are sceptical. Various data experts have voiced  concerns. And I heard the Belgian journo who broke the story cite this transfer as an example of the crazy money English sides add spending on "pretty average" players. Also a bit disconcerted that I don't think I've heard Smith come out and say anything about the signing - when it's a record transfer. Was he fully behind it?

On the positive side, he does also seem to tick a lot of boxes. Including being a good foil for our attacking midfielders and that he buries a lot of crosses. Perhaps they've seen an opportunity to improve his modest goal return by getting him into the 6 yard box more. He seems to spend a lot of time deep from what I've seen
I think this is the reason why we will hopefully also bring in another who can lead the line; both to play with Wes and to replace him where it makes sense to do so.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2019, 12:46:58 PM
I listened to a podcast where they were very sceptical. One of the guys had scouted him a couple of years back. Said he was very promising at 19 but hadn't really pushed on

I'm all for taking a chance on players like that. But when it's your record signing...

It was going to be broken at some point though. Let's see what he can do before replying on what two blokes on a podcast think.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: john e on July 06, 2019, 04:08:05 PM
purely on the you-tube goal reel he looks a million times better than that Maupay does





Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Matt Collins on July 06, 2019, 05:33:24 PM
It's discontering that a lot of independent voices are sceptical. Various data experts have voiced  concerns. And I heard the Belgian journo who broke the story cite this transfer as an example of the crazy money English sides add spending on "pretty average" players. Also a bit disconcerted that I don't think I've heard Smith come out and say anything about the signing - when it's a record transfer. Was he fully behind it?

On the positive side, he does also seem to tick a lot of boxes. Including being a good foil for our attacking midfielders and that he buries a lot of crosses. Perhaps they've seen an opportunity to improve his modest goal return by getting him into the 6 yard box more. He seems to spend a lot of time deep from what I've seen
I think this is the reason why we will hopefully also bring in another who can lead the line; both to play with Wes and to replace him where it makes sense to do so.

I hope we bring in another striker but I'd have thought the chances of us playing two up front are almost zero

I'll obviously give him a chance and not make my mind up too early. Just not sure about this one

I think Maupay is extremely promising BTWm but his height is a concern

Will probably do brilliantly at Sheffield United as they play two strikers and think that will suit him
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on July 21, 2019, 06:05:09 PM
Great article about our Wesley here.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/21/wesley-moraes-aston-villa-striker (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/21/wesley-moraes-aston-villa-striker)
Quote
Nothing about Wesley Moraes Ferreira da Silva’s story is straightforward. Aston Villa’s club-record signing lost his father when he was only nine and worked in a factory sorting screws before he became a multimillion-pound striker. In between times, the Brazilian had a son at the age of 15 and a daughter a year later. On top of all of that – and it really is hard to imagine how turbulent this 22-year-old’s life has been at times – Wesley fulfilled his dream of making it as a professional footballer despite having one leg that is almost three centimetres shorter than the other.
“He was born like this, of course,” says Hans Coret, who works closely with Paulo Nehmy, Wesley’s Brazilian agent. “When Paulo met Wesley the first time, he went to the former doctor of the national team of Brazil. He checked out the leg and he said: ‘You will never have any problem with this, it’s how he is, never change anything.’ It’s amazing. But you know the story of Garrincha in Brazil …”

Garrincha, Brazil’s unique and brilliant World Cup winner, is also referenced at Trencin, the Slovakian club where Wesley first made his name in European football, earning a move to Club Brugge in January 2016. “It is interesting because sometimes it looks like Wesley’s limping on the pitch by the way that he walks,” Robert Rybnicek, Trencin’s general manager, says. “But he’s so quick. He’s a special guy.”

Brugge picked up on Wesley’s unusual physical profile during his medical. He was only 19 years old at the time and the Belgian club were initially concerned about injury prevention. Yet Wesley has never experienced any problems in that respect and, as with Garrincha, whose left leg was six centimetres longer than his right, his body had learned to compensate for any imbalance a long time ago.

Finding stability off the field was harder and inevitably clubs delved into that chaotic backstory. “We knew everything,” Dévy Rigaux, Brugge’s team manager, says. “We had a very clear screening of the player before signing him. There was a long conversation with a psychologist on one side and with us, the people of the club, on the other side, on the social aspects. We felt during these conversations that he was a boy with a very good heart, with really good values in life, which were necessary in our environment to become the right football player.
“If you lose first of all the father at an early age, and you become yourself a father when you are still a kid, at 15, it has an impact. His children stayed in Brazil, so that was quite difficult for him. We had to build a relationship with him where, bit by bit, you start to talk more about the family.”

Football was Wesley’s salvation. After spending much of his childhood playing futsal, he travelled all over Europe trying to earn a contract, spending three months with Atlético Madrid’s under-17 team and scoring twice for them in an international youth tournament in Spain, only to end up back in Brazil working on a production line.

Wesley needed a break and that moment came when a highlights reel was sent to Trencin, who offered a one-month trial. Wesley saw himself as an attacking midfielder, but the Slovakian club looked at his power and pace and had other ideas. “He didn’t want to play like a No 9. He wanted to play in the middle. But all his talent that he had was really to be a striker,” Rybnicek says. “We started to work on it and to give him this trust that in the future this would make him a really good player for the international market. Slowly he started to believe and the development was incredible.”

Although that plan worked out well and Wesley was soon transferred to Brugge, he still had a lot to learn on and off the pitch, right down to the importance of getting enough sleep and eating properly when he was away from the club. “We went with him to the supermarket to buy exactly what he needed,” Rigaux adds.

Rigaux talks with a lot of fondness about Wesley, praising him in particular for the way that he was always receptive to the club’s advice, yet there were also moments when Brugge had to get “tough” with their young striker. Callow, desperate to prove himself and a little impetuous, Wesley became an easy target for defenders who saw a weakness in his temperament.

“You see the beginning of his period in Brugge, he had some red cards for non-mature behaviour. Then I was very hard with him,” Rigaux says. “First of all you show a kind of comprehension to his behaviour because you know that he gets a lot of kicks, but you need to explain very clearly that it’s absolutely not the way, because they knew that he reacted when they provoked him. We said to him: ‘Be smarter with your body language, try to change it. If you show to a defender that you get irritated, he will only do it more. When they kick you, take three seconds to think and not react.’ And, of course, it happened a few times that he fell in the trap again.”

Wesley needed to refine areas of his game too, notably his heading, but everyone could see his potential. Futsal had helped to hone his technical skills and then there was his towering physical presence and explosive speed. At 6ft 3in and 93kg (14st 9lb), he could dominate opponents. “He killed other players because he’s such a big guy,” Claudemir de Souza, a Brazilian who played alongside Wesley for Brugge, says.

Claudemir lived next door to Wesley in Belgium and, as someone who is nearly 10 years older, tried to guide him. “We know it’s hard when you lose your father when you’re so young,” Claudemir adds. “His mother always supported him, she would come to Belgium and I think she will come to England. And I know Wesley works a lot to help his children, because he knows how difficult it is not to have a father.”

Yan, his son, and Maria, his daughter, were born to different mothers and although Wesley is no longer with either of those women, he remains in regular contact with his children and wants to do his best for them. That situation is helped by the fact that both children live close to Wesley’s mother.
Rigaux believes Wesley “has been lucky that he has the right people around him” in terms of the positive influence provided by Coret and Nehmy, who is in a position to deal with any problems that arise in Brazil and has been described as being like a father figure. Together they have encouraged him to plan for tomorrow by investing in a plush apartment in Juiz de Fora, the Brazilian city where he grew up.

Yet the boundaries are blurred when it comes to others. In what is a remarkable image to picture, Rigaux has seen photos of 25 people, who are all depending on Wesley, gathered around a small kitchen table back in Brazil. That sort of scene fuelled concern about outside pressure on Wesley to perform. “It was something that we really needed to explain to the family,” Rigaux says. “Because this boy, he has an unbelievable responsibility to not only his mother and brothers and sister, but he has his kids, his best friends – everybody is asking: ‘Can you help me?’”

Remarkably, Wesley seemed unfazed by it all and played with a single-minded determination at Brugge that led to goals – 30 across the last two seasons – and being named the young player of the year in the Belgian Pro League. “All the problems that he might have, he puts behind,” Coret says. “He has one focus and that’s football. He’s not nervous about things.”

There was a huge offer from a club in China in January and Cardiff were also keen, but Wesley stayed put and got his reward when Villa paid £22m for him this summer. The English lessons that Wesley started in Brugge have come in handy already but the big question is how the boy who had to grow up so fast in Brazil will adapt on the pitch.

“First of all the supporters need to give him a warm welcome,” Rigaux says. “Wesley looks massive but he really needs the support. He had it from the Brugge supporters – and every time he said to me that it gives him an enormous feeling when they chant his name. Secondly, we’ve prepared him in a really good way but don’t think from the beginning that he will be the No 1 striker in the Premier League. Give him time, though, and I really expect him to be a key player for Aston Villa and to have a big career.”
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KevinGage on July 21, 2019, 06:25:16 PM
It's discontering that a lot of independent voices are sceptical. Various data experts have voiced  concerns. And I heard the Belgian journo who broke the story cite this transfer as an example of the crazy money English sides add spending on "pretty average" players. Also a bit disconcerted that I don't think I've heard Smith come out and say anything about the signing - when it's a record transfer. Was he fully behind it?


A lot of independent voices -including those who watched Belgian football - were sceptical when we paid what we did for Benteke. That idiot Colin Murray absolutely loved it and said it would be the biggest waste of money that season.

Our set up wasn't as progressive then as it is now, so with people like Suso and Dean Smith's record of spotting players, their achievements and impact to date aren't the biggest factors in a signing.

Wesley, at 22, has already shown he can adapt in places as varied as Slovakia and Belgium. So that should be one less thing to worry about as well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dazvillain on July 21, 2019, 06:42:11 PM
An amazing article
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2019, 06:57:58 PM
Coming with a lot of "baggage"
Hope it works out for the lad after such a tough life as a kid
Needs to be "loved"  by the sound of it
Personally I think it's a massive gamble for the club .....is This why we are looking for another Brazilian to help him settle?
Seems to fly in the face of the way The club are looking to bring in " low risk" players
Time will tell
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 21, 2019, 07:23:53 PM
The stuff around all the family and friends wanting a piece is common in many impoverished societies.

This is what usually cuts down the tall poppies.

The 2 kids by 2 different mothers is Gabyesque and he turned out all right. ;-(
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2019, 11:10:54 PM
When it comes to hard work and dedication and a player to love, nobody does it better than we do. He only needs to see and hear how we all love Jack or SJM or Mings. He can easily be as adored as they are. Good luck big Wes
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Louzie0 on July 21, 2019, 11:30:09 PM
Can he play? Well, yes!

I don’t see Villa going after him, otherwise.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dave on July 23, 2019, 08:12:31 PM
Newcastle paying £40m for Joelinton, who is the same age as Wesley, and coming off 7 in 29 for Hoffenheim and 15 in 60 for Rapid Vienna.

Suggests that our £22m could well be pretty decent value.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on July 24, 2019, 11:29:45 AM
I think with Wesley's hold-up play, our wide players and midfielders could be in for a few goals this season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on July 24, 2019, 11:32:21 AM
I like what I've seen so far. Big, strong, aggressive, pacey, irritated by shit decisions.

He'll be a good'un.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2019, 11:42:59 AM
When it comes to hard work and dedication and a player to love, nobody does it better than we do. He only needs to see and hear how we all love Jack or SJM or Mings. He can easily be as adored as they are. Good luck big Wes

Quite. Add the reception that Benteke got and of course all of the even half-decent players we've had who've been prepared to work hard and he'll be fine.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 24, 2019, 11:52:09 AM
I like what I've seen so far. Big, strong, aggressive, pacey, irritated by shit decisions.

He'll be a good'un.

I can remember one particular (entertaining) incident where he clearly wanted to complain about the ref's decision but didn't know what to say or how to say it, so he essentially just stood in the ref's vicinity looking unimpressed.

Agree with all of that though. He'll take time to settle but I like what I'm seeing so far.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2019, 12:13:52 PM
I think this is probably crap but the song got stuck in my head....

One leg or the other, He’s gonna find ya
He’s gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
One leg or the other, He’s gonna win ya
He’s gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
One leg or the other, He’s gonna see ya
He’s gonna beat ya, beat ya, beat ya, beat ya
One day, maybe next week, He’s gonna beat ya
He’s gonna beat ya, He’ll beat ya
He’ll run to the ground
And if the lights are all on
He’ll score a ton
One leg or the other, He’s gonna find ya
He’s gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
One leg or the other, He’s gonna win ya
He’ll get ya, He’ll get ya
One leg or the other, He’s gonna see ya
He’s gonna beat ya, beat ya, beat ya, beat ya
One day, maybe next week, He’s gonna beat ya
He’ll beat ya, ah
And if the lights are all on
He’ll make Villa win
Watch him bang ‘em in
One leg…
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on July 24, 2019, 12:28:42 PM
I like what I've seen so far. Big, strong, aggressive, pacey, irritated by shit decisions.

He'll be a good'un.

I can remember one particular (entertaining) incident where he clearly wanted to complain about the ref's decision but didn't know what to say or how to say it, so he essentially just stood in the ref's vicinity looking unimpressed.

Agree with all of that though. He'll take time to settle but I like what I'm seeing so far.

Haha. Yes, was this in the Shrewsbury game? Wasn't it Hourihane who sort of came over and looked to calm him down a little?

I like Wesley already!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 24, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
I like what I've seen so far. Big, strong, aggressive, pacey, irritated by shit decisions.

He'll be a good'un.

I can remember one particular (entertaining) incident where he clearly wanted to complain about the ref's decision but didn't know what to say or how to say it, so he essentially just stood in the ref's vicinity looking unimpressed.

Agree with all of that though. He'll take time to settle but I like what I'm seeing so far.

Haha. Yes, was this in the Shrewsbury game? Wasn't it Hourihane who sort of came over and looked to calm him down a little?

I like Wesley already!

Yes it was. Same. Genuinely think he'll give the Spurs defence something to think about.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on July 24, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
I like what I've seen so far. Big, strong, aggressive, pacey, irritated by shit decisions.

He'll be a good'un.

I can remember one particular (entertaining) incident where he clearly wanted to complain about the ref's decision but didn't know what to say or how to say it, so he essentially just stood in the ref's vicinity looking unimpressed.

Agree with all of that though. He'll take time to settle but I like what I'm seeing so far.

Haha. Yes, was this in the Shrewsbury game? Wasn't it Hourihane who sort of came over and looked to calm him down a little?

I like Wesley already!

Yes it was. Same. Genuinely think he'll give the Spurs defence something to think about.

I'd love nothing more than him to destroy the Spurs defence. Come on Wesley!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 24, 2019, 01:11:19 PM
Newcastle paying £40m for Joelinton, who is the same age as Wesley, and coming off 7 in 29 for Hoffenheim and 15 in 60 for Rapid Vienna.

Suggests that our £22m could well be pretty decent value.

Brucerino will soon coach all of that out of him
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 24, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
I think with Wesley's hold-up play, our wide players and midfielders could be in for a few goals this season.

All the evidence is supporting the clubs claim that Dean will not change his attacking ethos now we are there - cannot wait and I am convinced he will surprise quite a few
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 24, 2019, 01:35:33 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2019, 04:21:41 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 24, 2019, 04:22:55 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?

Aye. Versus the Shrews.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2019, 04:24:02 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?

Aye. Versus the Shrews.

As was Wesley's?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 24, 2019, 04:28:46 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?

Aye. Versus the Shrews.

As was Wesley's?

You’ve completely lost me mate. I commented on Wesley controlling, turning and passing to Hogan to run through and score. And while Hogan did score my point being he will have even better options to pass to than Hogan in the future.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2019, 04:32:00 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?

Aye. Versus the Shrews.

As was Wesley's?

You’ve completely lost me mate. I commented on Wesley controlling, turning and passing to Hogan to run through and score.

Sorry, but I took your point as to belittle Hogan, even though he scored; whoever else ran on to the ball couldn't have done any better than he did.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 24, 2019, 04:35:06 PM
His control, turn and pass to Hogan was brilliant the other day. Now imagine in a few weeks it is AEG, Trezeguet, Jack, SJM or Dougie Lou running through the middle not Hogan.

The one where Hogan scored?

Aye. Versus the Shrews.

As was Wesley's?

You’ve completely lost me mate. I commented on Wesley controlling, turning and passing to Hogan to run through and score.

Sorry, but I took your point as to belittle Hogan, even though he scored; whoever else ran on to the ball couldn't have done any better than he did.



It wasn’t meant that way but frankly Hogan doesn’t need to be belittled. He’s done a damn good job of bringing that on himself across the year or so he’s been with us. I’m delighted he scored in clear one on one versus Shrewsbury. I expected our £10m+ striker to do that against a league one keeper. He didn’t do much else all game. And I hope it helps get him a move and we get a couple of million back for him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: clash city rocker on July 24, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
With regards to Hogan I am happy to wipe the slate clean and if he does stay judge him on his future performances.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 24, 2019, 04:37:59 PM
With regards to Hogan I am happy to wipe the slate clean and if he does stay judge him on his future performances.

I expect us to sign another forward like Maupay. So that would mean he is behind Wes, Kodjia, a new striker, and frankly RHM looked very good. So even if RHM and KD get loaned out in all likelihood he will be best case 4th choice. He couldn’t cut it in the Championship playing for two teams that got promoted. What chance will he have in the PL?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 24, 2019, 08:42:10 PM
Two lovely goals tonight (so far).  The penalty was nicely dispatched and his first goal was also nicely put away.  He looks like a really unselfish player who brings other people in to the game.  Big lad too!  The goals will give him some confidence.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on July 24, 2019, 08:44:37 PM
Looks great. Done a lot of dropping deep and laying off to release grealish, think we’ll see that a lot and with Jack, SJM, AEG, Trez buzzing round him that could be a very effective attack.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ger Regan on July 24, 2019, 09:08:53 PM
I'm liking the fact that the other players seem to be making an effort to encourage wes (particularly with the reports of him possibly needing it), as well as Grealish stepping in to have a word after an altercation.

I do hope if things don't start great for him that the fans stay onside and give him a chance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: usav on July 24, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on July 24, 2019, 09:17:47 PM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   

It didn't cause Garrincha much trouble.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aev on July 24, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   

It didn't cause Garrincha much trouble.

Didn’t Garrincha lose his cherry to a goat?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: andyh on July 24, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
That’s not a limp.
It’s swagger
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on July 24, 2019, 09:43:44 PM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   

It didn't cause Garrincha much trouble.

Didn’t Garrincha lose his cherry to a goat?

Didn't we all?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smirker on July 24, 2019, 10:51:50 PM
Glad he got a couple of goals. I think he'll be OK. Pleased to hear the fans chanting his name.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 24, 2019, 10:54:16 PM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   

It didn't cause Garrincha much trouble.

Didn’t Garrincha lose his cherry to a goat?

Didn't we all?

If goats don't want us to shag them, why do they walk about with no clothes on?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Des Little on July 24, 2019, 11:25:54 PM
You’re not kidding!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on July 25, 2019, 07:41:00 AM
please don't ram bestiality down my throat.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: darren woolley on July 25, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
I'm impressed with him so far played well in these pre season games I think he will do well in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: in exile on July 25, 2019, 10:47:26 AM
please don't ram bestiality down my throat.
Ewe love it!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on July 25, 2019, 10:48:05 AM
please don't ram bestiality down my throat.
Stop bleating.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on July 25, 2019, 11:15:50 AM
Ba humbug.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on July 25, 2019, 11:53:24 AM
You must be kidding.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: godzvilla on July 25, 2019, 11:58:48 AM
So not to be a negative nelly, but to me at least it is noticeable he walks with a bit of a limp which I assume is due to the size difference in his legs.   Hope that doesn't cause issues further down the road.   

It didn't cause Garrincha much trouble.

Didn’t Garrincha lose his cherry to a goat?

Didn't we all?

If goats don't want us to shag them, why do they walk about with no clothes on?
Whatever floats your goat .
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: andyh on July 25, 2019, 10:15:00 PM
Freddy to Wesley on twatter.

Who do you scream in a girls voice when you want the ball.


I think Freddy might  become a bit of a legend (if Wesley hasn’t battered him to death)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 26, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
There is a dirty rumour doing the rounds that either Wesley or Keinan has broken their leg in a behind closed doors friendly v Kuwait national team yesterday.

The match definitely happened... Anyone know anything about the injury?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on July 26, 2019, 08:20:02 AM
There is a dirty rumour doing the rounds that either Wesley or Keinan has broken their leg in a behind closed doors friendly v Kuwait national team yesterday.

The match definitely happened... Anyone know anything about the injury?

I’d be surprised if Wesley played 24 hours after Walsall.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 26, 2019, 08:22:11 AM
There is a dirty rumour doing the rounds that either Wesley or Keinan has broken their leg in a behind closed doors friendly v Kuwait national team yesterday.

The match definitely happened... Anyone know anything about the injury?

I’d be surprised if Wesley played 24 hours after Walsall.

Several did, including Guilbert and Grealish. There are pictures on the socials.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on July 26, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
There is a dirty rumour doing the rounds that either Wesley or Keinan has broken their leg in a behind closed doors friendly v Kuwait national team yesterday.

The match definitely happened... Anyone know anything about the injury?

I’d be surprised if Wesley played 24 hours after Walsall.

Oh s€%#

Several did, including Guilbert and Grealish. There are pictures on the socials.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 26, 2019, 08:44:12 AM
I've found a couple of tweets, one asking who it was that limped off, and a reply saying it was Davis. No idea how they know, though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on July 26, 2019, 08:52:31 AM
What was the score in this game.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 26, 2019, 08:52:58 AM
What was the score in this game.

Kuwait won 2-1. O'Hare scored for us.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on July 26, 2019, 09:16:46 AM
There is a dirty rumour doing the rounds that either Wesley or Keinan has broken their leg in a behind closed doors friendly v Kuwait national team yesterday.

The match definitely happened... Anyone know anything about the injury?

I’d be surprised if Wesley played 24 hours after Walsall.

I did see some random tweet about Wesley playing the day after the Walsall game and going off injured which concerned me a bit although i do know to take a lot of that shit with a pinch of salt. Nothing about a broken leg though and if someone is injured hopefully it's only a knock.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 26, 2019, 09:23:47 AM
I don't think Guilbert would be making fun of him in a Tweet after he'd got a broken leg. Fingers crossed, anyway.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on July 26, 2019, 09:29:41 AM
Indeed. Some arseholes trying to shit-stir no doubt.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on July 26, 2019, 09:35:35 AM
IIRC, someone did something similar when Benteke was away playing for Belgium at a time when he was really on fire for us.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: avfcpg on July 26, 2019, 09:36:58 AM
IIRC, someone did something similar when Benteke was away playing for Belgium at a time when he was really on fire for us.
Yep they did....I remember that....and the panic that set in
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smirker on July 26, 2019, 09:38:32 AM
IIRC, someone did something similar when Benteke was away playing for Belgium at a time when he was really on fire for us.
Yep they did....I remember that....and the panic that set in

And me, sad twats making shit up and hoping the rumour 'bangs'.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on July 26, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
Freddy to Wesley on twatter.

Who do you scream in a girls voice when you want the ball.


I think Freddy might  become a bit of a legend (if Wesley hasn’t battered him to death)

Cheeky barsteward! Watch out that the Hulk doesn't crush him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: jwarry on July 27, 2019, 02:03:16 PM
Curiously absent from today’s starting line up?!?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: VillaAlways on July 27, 2019, 02:28:10 PM
So the rumours that he got injured midweek were true then
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Oh ffs.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 02:30:31 PM
Curiously absent from today’s starting line up?!?

And not on the bench, either.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on July 27, 2019, 02:32:42 PM
He put a post on instagram at 7pm yesterday saying something like 'ready for the Premier League' so even if he is injured it cant be that bad.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: avfcpg on July 27, 2019, 02:42:36 PM
Think there's a picture doing the rounds of him out and about shopping yesterday too....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 02:46:49 PM
So maybe he is just rested. Maybe it is just a knock in training versus he had a leg amputated.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2019, 02:50:24 PM
I’d hope it’s not that serious, but it does illustrate the need for another striker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on July 27, 2019, 02:51:38 PM
Think there's a picture doing the rounds of him out and about shopping yesterday too....

I was just about to post that someone would have seen him somewhere and a broken leg is something not too easily hidden.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on July 27, 2019, 03:03:06 PM
Could just be a rest for this one (maybe due to a knock) and a chance to see if Davis is capable of doing anything like the same job with one eye on whether they need to recruit or how desperately. I'm keen to see how Davis does so hope he gets 75 mins at least.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tuscans on July 27, 2019, 03:08:29 PM
He'll be play against RP Leipzig I reckon. He's key for us this season so I think they told him to sit this one out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 03:14:33 PM
And it’s entirely possible as part of his move he had personal shit to iron out. Who knows? Could be anything and it could be nothing at all others than he’s been given a breather.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 03:15:23 PM
Slightly concerned Woodward hasn't mentioned him yet.

Despite having run through the new signings who are on the bench.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 03:22:08 PM
https://twitter.com/snapeyg_/status/1154769425066864641?s=21

Leg clearly unbroken
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 03:22:49 PM
He could be standing on an artificial leg.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
Clearly photoshopped, it's obvious he bost his leg in a game he didn't play in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on July 27, 2019, 04:00:30 PM
https://twitter.com/snapeyg_/status/1154769425066864641?s=21

Leg clearly unbroken


From the descriptions some of you guys gave, he's nothing like what I expected. No one mentioned his curly hair and odd beard.

Still, the guy behind him seems pleased he's signed. Obviously a bit Villa fan.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2019, 05:01:45 PM
So is he injured? Wasn't in squad today.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 27, 2019, 05:09:14 PM
https://twitter.com/snapeyg_/status/1154769425066864641?s=21

Leg clearly unbroken

Broken? No. Bitten by a werewolf? Possibly.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 05:13:48 PM
https://twitter.com/snapeyg_/status/1154769425066864641?s=21

Leg clearly unbroken


Unlike Ryan Shawcross ***nsfw, if you're having your tea***
https://twitter.com/ArsenalIndians/status/1155142107041914880?s=09
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on July 27, 2019, 05:16:47 PM
https://twitter.com/snapeyg_/status/1154769425066864641?s=21

Leg clearly unbroken


Unlike Ryan Shawcross ***nsfw, if you're having your tea***
https://twitter.com/ArsenalIndians/status/1155142107041914880?s=09

Fucking hell. Ouch.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 05:21:41 PM
That’s Stoke’s season fucked before it started. That’s a terrible injury. Hope he finds a way back from that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 27, 2019, 05:50:56 PM
That is a shocker. Poor bloke.  Wrong end of his career too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 05:51:16 PM
Classy from that Arsenal gimp.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 27, 2019, 06:49:11 PM
Blimey, that’s a terrible injury. Poor bloke.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 07:14:07 PM
Agreed. But maybe discuss in "Other Games" rather than giving me a heart attack every time I check this thread!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 07:15:15 PM
Agreed. But maybe discuss in "Other Games" rather than giving me a heart attack every time I check this thread!

Like I correctly did 3 hours ago!

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 07:37:39 PM
From Twitter:

Dean Smith: “Wesley played well on Wednesday and scored two goals. He also played 20 minutes against Kuwait in the week but suffered a small knock. It wasn’t worth the risk bringing him down today. He’s fine, though. He should be back training on Tuesday or Wednesday.”
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dazvillain on July 27, 2019, 07:43:23 PM
Great great news, now get Maupay, Wilson and another couple of strikers signed.
DAVIES and Hogan in prem doesn’t fit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 27, 2019, 07:44:54 PM
‘He’s broken his tibia and fibula but he should be fine for training on Tuesday.’ Said an enthusiastic Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 27, 2019, 07:47:51 PM
‘He’s broken his tibia and fibula but he should be fine for training on Tuesday.’ Said an enthusiastic Dean Smith.

 He’s probably gone and done and Micah Richards, broken eyelash out for nearly 4 years
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2019, 07:53:58 PM
Great great news, now get Maupay, Wilson and another couple of strikers signed.
DAVIES and Hogan in prem doesn’t fit.

Dybala and Neymar should do it. Pass on Bale though
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 08:33:47 PM
Fuck Neymar the massive petulant show pony. Guarantee he won’t show up on a cold night in Burnley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 12:57:12 PM
Good news everyone. Wesley’s shattered tibia which recovered in time to see him go shopping has now fully healed.


(https://i.ibb.co/RvphVrk/66-A8-F238-A1-B3-476-A-8512-D21-D6-D4-A9-FCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RvphVrk)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 29, 2019, 01:27:52 PM
He does look a beast doesn't he - I think a few defences are going to get a bit roughed up this season
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: UK Redsox on July 29, 2019, 03:06:02 PM
Good news everyone. Wesley’s shattered tibia which recovered in time to see him go shopping has now fully healed.


(https://i.ibb.co/RvphVrk/66-A8-F238-A1-B3-476-A-8512-D21-D6-D4-A9-FCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RvphVrk)


Can't see his legs. One could have been amputated for all we know
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 03:18:26 PM
Good news everyone. Wesley’s shattered tibia which recovered in time to see him go shopping has now fully healed.


(https://i.ibb.co/RvphVrk/66-A8-F238-A1-B3-476-A-8512-D21-D6-D4-A9-FCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RvphVrk)


Can't see his legs. One could have been amputated for all we know

You’re right. He could be on RHM’s shoulders. I expect this to be the root cause of RHM’s next inevitable injury.

As you were everyone. Panic stations!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 30, 2019, 08:18:20 PM
Love this kid

https://twitter.com/astonforza/status/1156246748907606016?s=12

And if that is any kind of celebration I’d love to see that 20 times this season
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on July 30, 2019, 08:22:24 PM
Good news everyone. Wesley’s shattered tibia which recovered in time to see him go shopping has now fully healed.


(https://i.ibb.co/RvphVrk/66-A8-F238-A1-B3-476-A-8512-D21-D6-D4-A9-FCF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RvphVrk)


Can't see his legs. One could have been amputated for all we know

Amputated by three inches apparently!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: jwarry on July 31, 2019, 09:29:43 PM
Making an impact already https://youtu.be/SZpOYwjz3YM
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
I didn't catch all of it on TS but Tim Vickery was very complimentary of his ability and potential.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 12:02:39 AM
What I like so far is that he's confident enough in his own ability to let the ball get out from under his feet (Grealish is great at it as well). It's something i really like to see because it draws tackles so defenders often sell themselves out or give away fouls. It does mean that there will be times where he loses the ball in good areas but I think that's a price worth paying for the benefits it brings. I also like that he's good at playing people in but can also turn and run at people, it's what made Benteke so dangerous for us.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 08, 2019, 11:41:38 PM
Belgian journo on the the BBC European football speaking very highly of Wesley saying he's suited to the PL and was the one player in their league last year that he thought could succeed over here.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tayls_7 on August 09, 2019, 01:36:22 PM
What I like so far is that he's confident enough in his own ability to let the ball get out from under his feet (Grealish is great at it as well). It's something i really like to see because it draws tackles so defenders often sell themselves out or give away fouls. It does mean that there will be times where he loses the ball in good areas but I think that's a price worth paying for the benefits it brings. I also like that he's good at playing people in but can also turn and run at people, it's what made Benteke so dangerous for us.

It's what Gestede used to do too  :o
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on August 09, 2019, 01:38:36 PM
What I like so far is that he's confident enough in his own ability to let the ball get out from under his feet (Grealish is great at it as well). It's something i really like to see because it draws tackles so defenders often sell themselves out or give away fouls. It does mean that there will be times where he loses the ball in good areas but I think that's a price worth paying for the benefits it brings. I also like that he's good at playing people in but can also turn and run at people, it's what made Benteke so dangerous for us.

It's what Gestede used to do too  :o

Not quite, the ball bounced off him a pretty long way when he tried to control it but it wasn't intentional, he just couldn't trap a bag of cement.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tayls_7 on August 09, 2019, 01:41:38 PM
What I like so far is that he's confident enough in his own ability to let the ball get out from under his feet (Grealish is great at it as well). It's something i really like to see because it draws tackles so defenders often sell themselves out or give away fouls. It does mean that there will be times where he loses the ball in good areas but I think that's a price worth paying for the benefits it brings. I also like that he's good at playing people in but can also turn and run at people, it's what made Benteke so dangerous for us.

It's what Gestede used to do too  :o

Not quite, the ball bounced off him a pretty long way when he tried to control it but it wasn't intentional, he just couldn't trap a bag of cement.

He is a footballer though right? I mean he is, isn't he?  ???
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on August 09, 2019, 04:36:46 PM
To wear the iconic number 9 shirt. I hope he knows the importance of that shirt.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on August 09, 2019, 04:43:31 PM
I wish they had given him Johnny Dixon's number.   9 is a bit of a hope too far.  Johnny (10) and Tommy Thompson (8) once plundered 40 first division goals between them.  I wish you younger fans could have seen it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on August 09, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
I don't  know what that Belushi face is doing there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 09, 2019, 04:50:03 PM
Hogan, Sinclair, literally no-one, Ireland, Harewood.
Pretty low bar, that!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: four fornicholl on August 09, 2019, 07:43:36 PM
If you're reading this, good luck Wes, please score.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Goldie.7 on August 17, 2019, 05:16:29 PM
I'm not a fan of what I've seen from this guy in 2 competitive games. He has no pace, his first touch is complete garbage, he's always second best to every ball played to him in promising areas and his positional awareness is non-existent. I'm also getting highly annoyed by his theatrical antics at the slightest bit of contact.

This guy needs to toughen up and fast.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on August 17, 2019, 05:21:53 PM
He’s young and inexperienced and being asked to learn very fast.  Always going to be difficult but he looks a much better player with the ball at his feet.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on August 17, 2019, 05:23:34 PM
I'm beginning to worry that he's the second cousin of George Weah.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 17, 2019, 05:42:07 PM
He’s young and inexperienced and being asked to learn very fast.  Always going to be difficult but he looks a much better player with the ball at his feet.
Asking him to be our main striker is a big challenge for someone so inexperienced.  We're crying out for another option up front.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: curiousorange on August 17, 2019, 05:47:23 PM
Genuine question, but if he's chronic in the air and has no pace, what is his reason for being our main striker?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2019, 05:48:22 PM
At this point I wouldn’t be against taking a flyer on Sturridge to see us to January. Unless I missed he’s no longer a free agent.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 17, 2019, 05:48:36 PM
Genuine question, but if he's chronic in the air and has no pace, what is his reason for being our main striker?
Size?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: curiousorange on August 17, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Genuine question, but if he's chronic in the air and has no pace, what is his reason for being our main striker?
Size?

I assume that's the case, but nobody would suggest we bought Akinfenwa. Then again, I've seen him score a few.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 17, 2019, 05:50:09 PM
Genuine question, but if he's chronic in the air and has no pace, what is his reason for being our main striker?

He has tonnes of pace.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on August 17, 2019, 05:52:48 PM
At this point I wouldn’t be against taking a flyer on Sturridge to see us to January. Unless I missed he’s no longer a free agent.

I would absolutely go for it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 17, 2019, 05:53:37 PM
Sorry but I've seen nothing to suggest he's good enough. Full stop. A lot of people seem to be comparing him to Benteke. I don't get that: when Christian signed, we knew we'd got a player on our hands. Did he take time to bed in, yes, but he never looked completely out of his depth. Wesley, I'm sorry, looks awful at this level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: curiousorange on August 17, 2019, 05:57:19 PM
I can see why it's a decent shout, but we won't go for it. For a start, it's an admission that part of your transfer policy was undercooked. and I don't think the club are willing to hold their hand up to that two games in. Also, people are hugely put off by his injury record. Mings doesn't have a great record there either, but Sturridge is too high-profile a punt for it not to be a massive talking point.

So basically, it's a decent idea, but won't happen due to reasons other than football.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on August 17, 2019, 05:59:30 PM
I'm not a fan of what I've seen from this guy in 2 competitive games. He has no pace, his first touch is complete garbage, every single ball played to him in promising areas he's always second best and his positional awareness is non-existent. I'm also getting highly annoyed by his theatrical antics at the slightest bit of contact.

This guy needs to toughen up and fast.

Other than that though he looks the part?

One things for sure, he should get plenty of time and opportunity considering the competition there and I actually think he'll do ok eventually. To me he looks raw and naive but talented.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: onebyone12 on August 17, 2019, 06:00:55 PM
At this point I wouldn’t be against taking a flyer on Sturridge to see us to January. Unless I missed he’s no longer a free agent.

I would absolutely go for it

I mentioned in the post-match thread that hes being linked with Monaco, If Wesley is as off the pace as some are making out then a move for Sturridge would be excellent business
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: levico on August 17, 2019, 06:04:35 PM
Far from convincing. Puts a bit of a question mark over our scouting competence.
How could this player be our record signing if only for a couple of weeks?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on August 17, 2019, 06:07:42 PM
I despair of our fans sometimes. People around me were giving him loads of grief today. He cut a forlorn figure at times, but he needs some support. I would have like to have seen 20 minutes with Davies, instead of the cameo appearance at the end.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 17, 2019, 06:15:07 PM
I despair of our fans sometimes. People around me were giving him loads of grief today. He cut a forlorn figure at times, but he needs some support. I would have like to have seen 20 minutes with Davies, instead of the cameo appearance at the end.

Well if the problem is with his support and not him, then the issue is with Trezequet and El Ghazi and Grealish.

So if our lack of goals is not down to the obvious poor play of our sole striker, then we've got much much bigger problems to think about.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: onebyone12 on August 17, 2019, 06:17:15 PM
I despair of our fans sometimes. People around me were giving him loads of grief today. He cut a forlorn figure at times, but he needs some support. I would have like to have seen 20 minutes with Davies, instead of the cameo appearance at the end.

He is a striker. Only one way to stop that grief..stick it in the onion bag and quick! Same goes for Davis.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 17, 2019, 06:17:35 PM
At this point I wouldn’t be against taking a flyer on Sturridge to see us to January. Unless I missed he’s no longer a free agent.

I would absolutely go for it

I mentioned in the post-match thread that hes being linked with Monaco, If Wesley is as off the pace as some are making out then a move for Sturridge would be excellent business
Certainly keep the treatment room busy.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: onebyone12 on August 17, 2019, 06:28:00 PM
Looking at the games Crewe will be his test, he has to start and needs a brace at least... ala Beneteke at swindon.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: phantom limb on August 17, 2019, 06:29:40 PM
He didn’t have a good game and I think this league has been a bit of a wake up call for him, but he needs time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on August 17, 2019, 06:32:50 PM
Players need to get closer to him. Too often he was isolated and when crosses came in there weren't enough bodies in the box.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Tuscans on August 17, 2019, 06:38:07 PM
Players need to get closer to him. Too often he was isolated and when crosses came in there weren't enough bodies in the box.
This.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on August 17, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
Players need to get closer to him. Too often he was isolated and when crosses came in there weren't enough bodies in the box.


I agree with that but, even when he gets the ball in a decent position, he looks more likely to trip over the ball than do anything good with it.

I'm hoping it's just a bit of nerves and uncertainty at being with a big club in a big league. Let's hope he gets off the mark soon, and shows why we paid all of that money for him.

I'll admit, I've got a niggling feeling that we've bought a dud though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on August 17, 2019, 06:46:33 PM
The challenge for him is we’re asking him to be a starter. Bournemouth brought Solanke off the bench and he was a similar fee. Likewise Man Utd were able to bring James on last week when 3 up and unsurprisingly he had a much easier ride.

He needs time and a run of games but we have to place some trust in the scouting that has taken place and that there is a player in there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: onebyone12 on August 17, 2019, 06:51:52 PM
Agreed, he does need bodies round him, but he also needs to cop hold of the ball, drive at goal and shoot the bastard. That doesn't require a giant; Vassell and Gabby (prior to his decline) did that on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on August 17, 2019, 07:00:20 PM
2 games in and very early days yet - BUT, he has done absolutely nothing to suggest he is a PL striker.  Yes, he might need players in and around him but if he had so, can anyone imagine the outcome being any different?  From what I've seen, I certainly can't see this transfer working out.

Talk of Sturridge sounds like desperation - We may just as well stick with Kodjia/Davis.

Massive concern for me at this stage.  I'm prepared to cut him some slack but I'll be amazed if he's up to scratch.

I've lowered my seasons' aspirations on the back of Wesley's 2 performances.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 17, 2019, 07:04:04 PM
I haven't given up on on Wesley but i'd definitely looking at the free agent list right now. Striker situation is definitely a concern for me at present as Kod is well, Kod, even wen fit and Davis is similar to Wes. Right now I don't think they've got 15 goals in them combined in the top flight.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on August 17, 2019, 07:05:17 PM
I haven't given up on on Wesley but i'd definitely looking at the free agent list right now. Striker situation is definitely a concern for me at present as Kod is well, Kod, even wen fit and Davis is similar to Wes. Right now I don't think they've got 15 goals in them combined in the top flight.

And a free agent has?

They are free agents for a reason.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 17, 2019, 07:10:57 PM
Well as we can't sign anyone else there aren't any other options apart from stick with what we have and hope, but as none of the 3 we have look as though they'll score many as of right now, I'd be looking to see if anyone available could do a short term job. I don't think we will bring one of them in for what it's worth but i'd be looking.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KRS on August 17, 2019, 07:19:03 PM
Not impressed but we’re only 2 games in so far too early to be writing him off. We look pretty toothless and brainless up front, and that includes the front 5 not just Wesley. Dean needs to work out how to use him because at the moment Wes simply isn’t getting any supply with 2 wingers that can’t/won’t beat their fullback and any crosses that do come in are shite. There’s a lot of work to be done at BH to get these players working together and creating more, however it would be wise to be looking at free agents until Christmas.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa in Denmark on August 17, 2019, 07:38:10 PM
Hoping this has the same effect as my early remarks on the Kourtney Hause thread, but I hope we kept the receipt because it looks to me like we've been mugged off.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Kimaster1976 on August 17, 2019, 07:42:40 PM
I thought he wasn't bad at all today tbh, he put himself about held the ball up, he did what he could, looked better today than the first half at Tottenham i thought.

If he had 2 or 3 attacking midfielders closer to him when he was involved he would be doing a vital job up there, but he was too isolated.

He isnt a 20 goal a season striker and never will be, thats not his game, but given the right support around him he can play a crucial part this season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy65 on August 17, 2019, 07:43:56 PM
Ridiculous he is being written off already. Give him a bloody chance. He has had no service in the two games.

There’s 36 games to go. Let’s reserve judgement when we’ve played 10 to 15 games and even then it’s early days
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa in Denmark on August 17, 2019, 07:47:50 PM
Ridiculous he is being written off already. Give him a bloody chance. He has had no service in the two games.

There’s 36 games to go. Let’s reserve judgement when we’ve played 10 to 15 games and even then it’s early days

It's not just about no service. His first touch looks awful and he seems to spend as much time sat on his arse moaning at the ref as he does actually contributing. As you say early days, but first impressions are not promising.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: charleeco7 on August 17, 2019, 07:48:47 PM
I to thought he was ok today. No service but when he got the ball he held it up and tried to play others in. The drop of the shoulder to send the Bournemouth defender the wrong way before setting up Trez was excellent . He looked especially lively when Jota came on
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 17, 2019, 07:49:13 PM
Ridiculous he is being written off already. Give him a bloody chance. He has had no service in the two games.

There’s 36 games to go. Let’s reserve judgement when we’ve played 10 to 15 games and even then it’s early days

It's not just about no service. His first touch looks awful and he seems to spend as much time sat on his arse moaning at the ref as he does actually contributing. As you say early days, but first impressions are not promising.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Kimaster1976 on August 17, 2019, 07:53:38 PM
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on August 17, 2019, 07:57:23 PM
Ridiculous he is being written off already. Give him a bloody chance. He has had no service in the two games.

There’s 36 games to go. Let’s reserve judgement when we’ve played 10 to 15 games and even then it’s early days

It's not just about no service. His first touch looks awful and he seems to spend as much time sat on his arse moaning at the ref as he does actually contributing. As you say early days, but first impressions are not promising.

Indeed.

This is my problem as well.  There has been nothing in his game to suggest that there is mileage in persevering with him.  It hasn't been down to just bad luck, lack of supply or whatever.  Whenever Wesley has become involved, it's been poor.

And just to reiterate: IT IS EARLY DAYS - I'M PREPARED TO CUT HIM SOME SLACK (roughly translated to "I'm not writing him off")

I doubt he'll make the grade - He looks too far off the pace but given the circumstances, I have little option other than to stick with him, which I will do.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 17, 2019, 08:00:18 PM
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Kimaster1976 on August 17, 2019, 08:07:02 PM
My god the harsh comments on here from some people are quite astounding tbh.

He has had 2 games (1 of those away to the Champions League runners up).

Instead of laying the hammer down on him maybe we should give him every bit of encouragement atm that we can........considering it would be Kodjia or Davis to fill his place!

Or maybe the doubters are hoping there is a recall option on Hogan? Lol
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: CT on August 17, 2019, 08:16:19 PM
I'd be more worried if he'd had great service and was missing easy chances. The wide players gave him virtually nothing today.

The final ball, when there was one, was poor.

I'm a big fan of El Ghazi, but he's a shadow of the player he was a few months ago. He appears to have completely lost the ability to run at defenders anymore.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - Linked
Post by: Bad English on August 17, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2019, 08:49:47 PM
He might come good but he’s going to be bloody frustrating
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2019, 09:02:26 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)

You okay today love? Why bother pull up that post when it’s no different to what many said when we signed him. 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on August 17, 2019, 09:12:14 PM
He needs to be loved, no matter what.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smirker on August 17, 2019, 09:20:58 PM
Big Wes needs our support.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bad English on August 17, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)

You okay today love? Why bother pull up that post when it’s no different to what many said when we signed him.
I deeply apologise for gently ribbing you about football clichés. I thought the winky emoticon would show it was a harmless bit of fun.

You might want to take a vitamin supplement to thicken that skin.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 17, 2019, 09:29:31 PM
He needs to be loved, no matter what.

He's picked the wrong profession then.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2019, 09:36:30 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)

You okay today love? Why bother pull up that post when it’s no different to what many said when we signed him.
I deeply apologise for gently ribbing you about football clichés. I thought the winky emoticon would show it was a harmless bit of fun.

You might want to take a vitamin supplement to thicken that skin.

This coming from one of the most pedantic people on here. The depth of my skin is just fine BE. You decided to pick up on a post today that was from 2 months ago. Don’t you have punctuation or grammar to correct somewhere?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bad English on August 17, 2019, 10:09:10 PM
Oh dear. Whatever.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mike on August 17, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
I may be bonkers, because I'm normally a glass half empty person, but I thought Wes did OK today. I thought he looked strong and positive but isolated at times. He'll come good quicker than JPA did.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on August 17, 2019, 10:34:57 PM
Fuck me, let's not get back to writing players off after 1 week please.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bad English on August 17, 2019, 11:26:36 PM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)

You okay today love? Why bother pull up that post when it’s no different to what many said when we signed him.
I deeply apologise for gently ribbing you about football clichés. I thought the winky emoticon would show it was a harmless bit of fun.

You might want to take a vitamin supplement to thicken that skin.

This coming from one of the most pedantic people on here. The depth of my skin is just fine BE. You decided to pick up on a post today that was from 2 months ago. Don’t you have punctuation or grammar to correct somewhere?
Sorry, just realised that I quoted a post from page 1 of the thread. I honestly thought it was posted tonight.

As for corrections. Nope, still enjoying my two months off work.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OzVilla on August 17, 2019, 11:49:45 PM
I appreciate it’s stating the bleeding obvious but the lad needs a goal. Confidence is everything with strikers and he needs to know he belongs in this league.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2019, 01:00:32 AM
He's got some ability, but he looks like he need to be gradually introduced to the Premier League.  Which we can't do as we neglected to buy any other forwards.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: CT Villan on August 18, 2019, 01:33:11 AM
It's way too early to write him off, but it was majorly pissing me off today when he either jogged to close down their keeper or didn't bother at all. What happened to the much-vaunted Dean Smith press ?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2019, 01:36:12 AM
It's way too early to write him off, but it was majorly pissing me off today when he either jogged to close down their keeper or didn't bother at all. What happened to the much-vaunted Dean Smith press ?

Dunno. Struggling to see what in his game made the management team think he’d be suitable.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 18, 2019, 02:23:09 AM
The lad is a bit of a unit
Ace. I just need 'He'll be better after a full pre-season' for a full house. Come on! ;-)

You okay today love? Why bother pull up that post when it’s no different to what many said when we signed him.
I deeply apologise for gently ribbing you about football clichés. I thought the winky emoticon would show it was a harmless bit of fun.

You might want to take a vitamin supplement to thicken that skin.

This coming from one of the most pedantic people on here. The depth of my skin is just fine BE. You decided to pick up on a post today that was from 2 months ago. Don’t you have punctuation or grammar to correct somewhere?
Sorry, just realised that I quoted a post from page 1 of the thread. I honestly thought it was posted tonight.

As for corrections. Nope, still enjoying my two months off work.

Mate don’t worry about it. All good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KRS on August 18, 2019, 03:29:00 AM
What annoyed me today was that as our lone striker, he wasn’t even taking up positions in the box when we were building down the wings so they had absolutely no one to cross to. I recall being concerned about signing him when someone on here said that his game was more of dropping deep, so if we’re expecting him to be the dynamic goal scoring machine then I think we’ve bought the wrong type of player.

Another thing that pissed me off was that we’re playing with 2 wingers...both of which either couldn’t or refused to beat their fullbacks, and neither put in any decent crosses. There’s no point playing with 2 wingers if they can’t do what wingers are supposed to do, so if they can’t do it then Dean needs to change the system.

At the end of the day, he’s not going to score goals without the right kind of service and if he’s not putting himself in the right positions, so Dean and the staff need to start drilling the front 5 hard this week before it becomes a real problem.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on August 18, 2019, 07:56:16 AM
Thought Wes looked better yesterday, holding the ball up well. He struggled in the box given the poor service from out wide. Most of our crosses would not even worry a vampire let alone their goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on August 18, 2019, 08:43:42 AM
Thought Wes looked better yesterday, holding the ball up well. He struggled in the box given the poor service from out wide. Most of our crosses would not even worry a vampire let alone their goalkeeper.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 08:46:07 AM
What annoyed me today was that as our lone striker, he wasn’t even taking up positions in the box when we were building down the wings so they had absolutely no one to cross to. I recall being concerned about signing him when someone on here said that his game was more of dropping deep, so if we’re expecting him to be the dynamic goal scoring machine then I think we’ve bought the wrong type of player.

Another thing that pissed me off was that we’re playing with 2 wingers...both of which either couldn’t or refused to beat their fullbacks, and neither put in any decent crosses. There’s no point playing with 2 wingers if they can’t do what wingers are supposed to do, so if they can’t do it then Dean needs to change the system.

At the end of the day, he’s not going to score goals without the right kind of service and if he’s not putting himself in the right positions, so Dean and the staff need to start drilling the front 5 hard this week before it becomes a real problem.

They're not supposed to be playing as 'head down, get to the line and cross wingers' so you're not judging them on what they're being asked to do. Trez mostly did what we want from him today, he drifted in field made a few chances and got a few efforts on goal. AEG didn't do as well, and was replaced.

The problem is that if you want wingers to cut inside then you need the fullbacks to get up the pitch and provide more width. Elmo was 20-30 yards too deep and Taylor just isn't good enough in the final 3rd. I know neither of them played badly but they just not right for how we should be playing with the squad we have.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on August 18, 2019, 08:52:07 AM
Dean has to play Targett and Fred next time out. As for Wes - well he may or may not thrive long term - look at Joelinton at Newcastle, twice the price and not in the least impressive so far. And the corollary to that is Pukki, a freebie who is a natural goalscorer.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AV82EC on August 18, 2019, 09:45:29 AM
Was impressed with Wes yesterday. With the ball at his feet he looks dangerous, link up play in general looked good, some lovely touches to create space for himself in and around the box. Finishing he needs to keep working at and sometimes he needs to be better at holding the ball up. All in all I like him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Fred Crump on August 18, 2019, 10:08:02 AM
Good to hear some positive reports of Wes as well as the concerns.  A lot depends on him, although we must be patient and not expect too much of him too soon. It’s a shame we couldn’t have got Benrama from Brentford as he would have chipped in with more goals I think , but hey, Rome ( or Aston) wasn’t built in a day.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on August 18, 2019, 10:20:05 AM
He needs to be loved, no matter what.

He's picked the wrong profession then.

He really hasn’t. The Holte End singing his name at the top of their voice is a good start. New to the league, new to the country, complete change of scenery and culture. Needs time and our appreciation.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on August 18, 2019, 10:45:10 AM
that applies to two thirds of the players in the league though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on August 18, 2019, 11:48:40 AM
He needs to be loved, no matter what.

He's picked the wrong profession then.

He really hasn’t. The Holte End singing his name at the top of their voice is a good start. New to the league, new to the country, complete change of scenery and culture. Needs time and our appreciation.
Seems (as ever) some people have already made up their minds.Seen enough players with inauspicious starts to their Villa careers that came good to know that 180 minutes is too soon to judge either way.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: supertom on August 18, 2019, 11:54:27 AM
There's no point writing him off after two games. It's not all about him either. Aside from flashes from Trezeguet, and McGinniesta being typically good, no one has clicked offensively yet, so Wesley isn't getting much help. He needs time to settle and some backing, and others need to be chipping in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 18, 2019, 11:54:54 AM
It's worth remembering when we signed Benteke we had likes of Bent and Gabby who in August 2012 were still pretty decent premier league strikers before their downward dips.

Benteke became first choice because he showed early on he really had something (and also scored on his debut) but we could've also introduced him slowly (Weimann was also coming through at that time and had a decent debut season in the end).

Many more options than we do now. Kodjia picking up injuries and not the player he was in 16/17 and Davis also injured regularly and scored 3-4 goals in championship.

A brugge fan elsewhere also thinks it will take him up a year or two to develop into a proper good CF at premier league level.

Just seems bonkers to me we've spent 100m + and yet let ourselves very light in the most important area at premier league level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: supertom on August 18, 2019, 12:17:40 PM
It's worth remembering when we signed Benteke we had likes of Bent and Gabby who in August 2012 were still pretty decent premier league strikers before their downward dips.

Benteke became first choice because he showed early on he really had something (and also scored on his debut) but we could've also introduced him slowly (Weimann was also coming through at that time and had a decent debut season in the end).

Many more options than we do now. Kodjia picking up injuries and not the player he was in 16/17 and Davis also injured regularly and scored 3-4 goals in championship.

A brugge fan elsewhere also thinks it will take him up a year or two to develop into a proper good CF at premier league level.

Just seems bonkers to me we've spent 100m + and yet let ourselves very light in the most important area at premier league level.
I doubt we weren't trying to pull in 1-2 more attackers. It did sound like we had very definite interest in a few other front players, wide and central but couldn't pull it off. I don't think it'll take Wesley 2 years to settle. But for 22 million we've got to stick it out with him. He'll hopefully come good. For me, I'd be eyeing that league cup game and no even considering resting him for that. Get him out on the pitch, a goals a goal no matter who it's against and no disrespect to the opponents for that game but it's going to be easier to find the net that it will against Everton.
A goal will do him the world of good. Even Benteke for his first few games left people unconvinced, but the fact he scored on his debut did him the world of good. There was an air of fortune about that goal. Just a stroke of luck and opportunity that will hopefully come Wes's way.

We do need more cover, but our options are to wait till january or gamble on Sturridge who doesn't particularly fit into how we want to play and that's before you consider his wages and injuries.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Holte L2 on August 18, 2019, 01:34:41 PM
Balotelli on a free. There I've said it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on August 18, 2019, 01:39:34 PM
Comes with a free ironing board.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 18, 2019, 02:25:11 PM
What looked obvious to me yesterday was this is a team which is going to take four or five matches to really gel - not to say we're going to lose the next three and it's totally acceptable, just that for all the pre-season preparation, playing games in the top flight is a different thing entirely.

Having said that, bar one or two posters who have gone somewhat OTT, I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out where players have struggled in the discussions on here. That's a totally different thing to giving them shit at the game.

Wesley has struggled as far as I am concerned, i genuinely think he offered next to nothing yesterday - no, he didn't get much service from the flanks, but when he was around the ball, he looked a little clumsy and awkward to me.

Am I concerned? Yes, I am, but not purely because of Wesley, but because if he does struggle to settle (entirely possible for a player new to a league, and if that's the case then there's no need to crucify him for it) then we don't have a credible alternative option.

Time will tell, but I do think for the first few games, we will continue to look a bit disjointed.

FWIW, I have seen enough from Spurs and from yesterday to take a considerable amount of heart from.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 18, 2019, 02:50:33 PM
The comparison with Benteke is false. Benteke had a presence and a menace. You could see that straight away, even Lambert worked out if you can play to Bentekes strengths he would get goals.
There is no evidence of that with Wesley.
If we are ok with a low scoring Centre forward then DS has got to change the way we play to get other players in goal scoring positions ( not Taylor) obviously. Plop have Sala and Mane.
Who do we have ?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 18, 2019, 02:58:34 PM


One thing is for absolute certain. He's not going to score without some service in the box.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on August 19, 2019, 11:03:15 AM
One thing for certain is that Dean Smith has stated "Suso made me aware of Wesley" and this particular signing was identified by our Sporting director.
It does suggest that in watching club brugge ,  scouting Marvelous Nakamba , Wesley caught the attention too. Now Nakamba looks an energetic- McGinn-swashbuckling-style-drive the team - type who is there on profile.

With Wesley , a good sporting director in recruiting procedures will make substantial checks on the player. It matters not which scout, if not the head of recruitment,  brought to attention Wesley abilities , what matters is how ready and capable Wesley is to perform at premier league level.
Personally I see raw talent. Dean Smith would be positive and confident in his coaching ability to develop Wesley.
There was much intrigue, and wonder in the signing of AVFC first ever Brazilian player.
Known to having natural ability and flair the excitement of having a South American striker who has great skill is naturally expected.
This certainly caught the imagination and say instead of Oliver McBurnie - potentially equally as capable. Villa signed a Brazilian who played in Champions League and far more 'exciting' . Was this just in part a good  marketing move with potential? i

I do have some concerns on the strategic thinking in signing a 22 year old striker ,  new to country, new to premier league level , new to language and new to experience being the number 1 striker at Villa . Wesley is expected to come in lead the line and perform, create and score goals and display his talent in doing so. So far it's only glimpses in mixed hold up play.  Shots wise 2 accurate headers 1 each match on target but velocity of delivery didn't help. Wes against Bournemouth showed us once a strong hold -player- off and shot at goal effort but rare to see him as any goal threat thus far. Movement wise : he could do better.

Some people have so far seen Wesley  'style ' or observed he's 'that type of striker' that more creates for others .
However he may be seen I  essentially expect the main striker to provide a contribution chiefly in goals, but also in all round team play. Closing , pressing , link up play and movement.
That sort of play is what Dean Smith wants . Ok so , DS is given players to work with for his squad  , and has a proven record of developing players .
There's a reliance there in the team build in Smith . That's the key right there. Wesley is expected to improve under Dean Smith.

Over this summer Dean also suggested players -which were signed .
Wesley , was  not Smiths suggested signing and for me is concern on how  strong a strategic move this was .
Certainly Wesley can grow his value. Firstly I like to see him show his value of 22 million. He has not done this .

The Wesley transfer can be seen as something  of a gamble then . Maybe a game of patience to adapt and develop but that needs to be sooner rather than later.
The reason ? for it is he who is the central striker and it is he who has to perform since Game one.
For why ? Because the shortage of attacking strikers and reliance for midfielders and others to score puts a burden on whole team if the striker isn't perfotming.
The team has chances and goals in them I would like to have seen at least one more striker and wide forward in the squad to add , compete and help contribute.

One final observation on Wesley . His on field temperament is questionable. Now this is something I expected to be noted with in regards to the checks on personalities and characters. The last thing Villa need is him being suspended. I totally see shades of Diego Costa when he takes to the pitch.
That for one moment doesn't mean anything for his off field character and personality. But I do wonder with the way this signing came about , the other striker options like Maupay for one , if this Wesley was the way to go. Time will tell.

If, for a moment , I could contrast this to Trezeguet who was watched by Dean Smith with Suso at Afcon , I'm far more confident in Trez being a decently good premier league player.

On the 2 matches so far I would have Trezeguet scoring more goals than Wesley and ultimately Wesley will be judged on his goals.

I made this post in part to reason the suitability of Wesley transfer . As Suso recommended and he's signed and  integrated into the squad.
Some of my thoughts perhaps more conjecture but he was a recommendation and to me doesn't look totally a Dean Smith player

I am happy to have him in as it stirs excitement having a potential Brazilian magican. However, I  looking for more than just glimpses in play for what we have spent. I think , or hope there will be more than just a 'potential' strategic benefit in signing him and that the investment is a wise one.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on August 19, 2019, 11:58:26 AM
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 19, 2019, 12:05:13 PM
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.

A slightly over the top reaction to a reasonable post I'd say.  Where has he mentioned that anyobody shuld be ditched or need to go? Whilst being pleased with the summer's business, quite a few people questioned the fact that we didn't get another forward, and I don't think it's being unduly negative to say that the situation looks like it might cause us some difficulties.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on August 19, 2019, 12:05:44 PM
He doesn't look like a lone striker to me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on August 19, 2019, 12:10:12 PM
I actually see him as more a possible new Carew/Dublin rather than the new Heskey/Harewood right now.

I saw positives today, to be writing him off after today is quite frightening.

The players on the pitch get less time than ever on the ball in the premier league, and promoted teams get less time than ever to settle into their stride now.

Aggregate that down. Our sole striker doesn't, unfortunately, have the luxury of an indeterminate number of games to get used to things and find his feet.

For better or worse this is football now - we needed a striker who could adapt and start performing more or less immediately.

In your view maybe.

Our whole team need to adjust to playing in this division.

Should Grealish and Luiz go as well because they've fucked up? Could ditch Heaton as well and start all over again.

Then again, the manager has picked them all so he should go as well.

A slightly over the top reaction to a reasonable post I'd say.  Where has he mentioned that anyobody shuld be ditched or need to go? Whilst being pleased with the summer's business, quite a few people questioned the fact that we didn't get another forward, and I don't think it's being unduly negative to say that the situation looks like it might cause us some difficulties.

It's the point though. He didn't need to be an immediate success; players rarely are. But he's been here for 2 competitive matches and already the knives are out.

See Heaton too, and others.

I'm not saying I think he'll be a world-class player (maybe one day) but he needs to be given time, as they all do. It's new for all concerned.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on August 19, 2019, 12:39:39 PM
He's got some ability, but he looks like he need to be gradually introduced to the Premier League.  Which we can't do as we neglected to buy any other forwards.

Is the correct answer.  I don’t think though we would of been able to sign another forward who could carry that burden with the existing framework in place.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on August 19, 2019, 12:47:06 PM
It didn't take an oracle to realise we were betting the farm on Wesley.  Hopefully he'll come good but it's perfectly understandable that people are concerned, particulaly given the lack of cover.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: darren woolley on August 19, 2019, 12:55:09 PM
I think he will come good I like him I think once he get's that first important goal he will take off and score more same as the rest of the team they are gelling together.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on August 19, 2019, 01:03:27 PM
We need to get our midfielders around him and beyond him. McGinn and Grealish backed up the play well at times at the weekend but we need a lot more of that as Wes will draw defenders. Hourihane coming back in will help too. Wes doesn't really seem a threat from crosses thus far
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on August 19, 2019, 02:08:52 PM
The crosses haven't been great yet. Bringing in Targett for Taylor could help with that. Elmo is capable of putting in some good crosses, not sure Taylor is.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 19, 2019, 02:12:14 PM
Taylor isn't capable of putting in decent crosses, I can't remember seeing him attempt more than one per game.  Defensively he's been sound in the first two games, but I want to see if Targett offers anything extra going forward.  All Taylor attempts to do is play a safe pass, quite often to a player behind him, which then halts all forward momentum.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on August 19, 2019, 02:17:48 PM
El Ghazi doesn't track back so I can see why we play Taylor there when AEG is playing. So to bring Targett in, AEG may need to be dropped. Otherwise there's the risk of being exposed to counters.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 19, 2019, 02:19:53 PM
That's what happens when you have no movement in front of you. I shared Taylor's frustration. If we don't sort that out it will make no difference who plays at left back.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 19, 2019, 02:41:36 PM
I would play Targett behind Trez. Jota in front of Freddie. Jota isn’t a winger but can open up space for Freddie to overlap. I don’t want to see our starting options as Taylor and Elmo. They’ve been ok but doing ok simply isn’t good enough at PL level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on August 19, 2019, 03:20:14 PM
They were dodgy in the championship, there's no way those two should be starters in the top flight.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 19, 2019, 03:29:03 PM
El Ghazi doesn't track back so I can see why we play Taylor there when AEG is playing. So to bring Targett in, AEG may need to be dropped. Otherwise there's the risk of being exposed to counters.

AEG has to be dropped. He looks way, way out out of his depth. Apart from winning a corner and pass every ball back to Taylor every time he received it, he did nothing again on Saturday. If Targett does play, I hope he's been working on his crossing, something Saints fans claimed was his main strength. Pre-season they were poor but hopefully Dean can sort him out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on August 19, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
I've just posted this on the match thread for Friday:
-----------------Heaton
Guilbert, Engels, Mings, Targett
-------------Luiz, Hourihane
---- Trez, Grealish, McGinn
----------------Wes

I think this gives us a tighter set-up and supports Wes better. The critical bit is that the fullbacks will need to be a source of crosses into the danger areas.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on August 19, 2019, 07:58:44 PM
I would probably go with that but swap Grealish and McGinn over.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2019, 10:42:33 AM
El Ghazi doesn't track back so I can see why we play Taylor there when AEG is playing. So to bring Targett in, AEG may need to be dropped. Otherwise there's the risk of being exposed to counters.

AEG has to be dropped. He looks way, way out out of his depth. Apart from winning a corner and pass every ball back to Taylor every time he received it, he did nothing again on Saturday. If Targett does play, I hope he's been working on his crossing, something Saints fans claimed was his main strength. Pre-season they were poor but hopefully Dean can sort him out.

Yes, he's been poor so far. 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: thick_mike on August 20, 2019, 10:50:22 AM
Noticed when Jota came on on Saturday that he immediately saw one of Wesley’s runs and played a smart forward pass along the ground to him running into the box. I think when we start playing as a unit we will see more of that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: purpletrousers on August 20, 2019, 07:43:29 PM
Noticed when Jota came on on Saturday that he immediately saw one of Wesley’s runs and played a smart forward pass along the ground to him running into the box. I think when we start playing as a unit we will see more of that.
Yep clocked that too, had just been saying to my Dad they'd linked well preseason and quickly they started to show something different.
It's fascinating with big Wes, frankly no one knows how it'll work out, how much he'll adapt/grow if he needs to, presumably including him.
We do know his past clubs(?) said he needed to be loved, so if we are going to give him a chance to produce there needs to be patience (not turning on him too quick).
Re: whoever said he's in the wrong sport, disagree, confidence/being loved is so relevant to so many players.
It will indeed be interesting to see how things progress once he gets the monkey off his back and some better link up/support.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 20, 2019, 08:10:53 PM
El Ghazi doesn't track back so I can see why we play Taylor there when AEG is playing. So to bring Targett in, AEG may need to be dropped. Otherwise there's the risk of being exposed to counters.

AEG has to be dropped. He looks way, way out out of his depth. Apart from winning a corner and pass every ball back to Taylor every time he received it, he did nothing again on Saturday. If Targett does play, I hope he's been working on his crossing, something Saints fans claimed was his main strength. Pre-season they were poor but hopefully Dean can sort him out.

Yes, he's been poor so far. 

Before our winning run last year, my major beef with AEG was that he was not working hard enough, never tracking back or helping out his full back and not putting in the effort to get into a position to influence the game. In short, I think he looked lazy at times.

During the positive run, he upped his game considerably, starting working hard, and consequently looked better. Significantly so.

The two matches thus far, he is again looking like he's lost that extra effort. It's a much tougher league, he needs to work harder, not less.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 20, 2019, 11:19:02 PM
From his recent comments I think AEG knows that. For all our players who in almost all cases have stepped up a league it has dawned on them just how hard this is. Losing early and learning from it isn’t always the worst thing.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on August 22, 2019, 02:28:23 PM
I remember not being overly worried about Benteke when he joined oddly because of the fact he was missing chances. He kept getting into good positions and I was convinced he'd come good.

With Wes some of his hold up play has looked decent and he put it on a plate for Trezegeut in the last game, but I've not really seen a proper chance fall to him that I've felt he should be scoring.

That is mildly concerning.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on August 23, 2019, 09:17:52 AM
Wesley has not had an opportunity in where he's expected to score.
He has not had any big chances where he's even shot let a lone missed .

There is little indication of any goal threat at this moment, mere glimpses of his attributes in his overall play.

Wesley in 90 minutes at home to Bournemouth
From 48 touches of the ball
And 8 penalty area touches
He had 3 shots , 2 headers on target
Of the 26 times Wesley received the ball he lost possession or was tackled on 10 occasions.
He created 1 great chance by taking on a defender.
And as danno said , put the 'ball on a plate' for Trezeguet. (who is expected to score)


Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 09:32:44 AM
From today's Graun: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/22/aston-villa-dean-smith-wesley (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/22/aston-villa-dean-smith-wesley)

"To really offend people around Villa Park, just say the F word. After spending at least £127m on 12 players following promotion to the Premier League, Aston Villa fans get annoyed at accusations that their club are “doing a Fulham”, who splurged heavily last season only to flop out of the league with a whimper.

Villa have lost their first two matches and know that losing at home against Everton on Friday night would increase the heckling. The only way to make it stop is to start winning.

Dean Smith is not worried. He says he saw enough in the defeats by Tottenham and Bournemouth to suggest his team are coming together and will turn encouraging performances into positive results. He scoffs at suggestions that one player – the record signing Wesley – is under particular pressure to prove his worth. But the 22-year-old, signed from Club Brugge for £22m, carries a heavy burden, being the only forward capable of leading the line in the way Villa need. How capable? That is already a matter of debate even if the evidence is skimpy.

“What are we coming to if we’re judging players after two games?” asks an exasperated Smith. “There have been questions about him playing in the Premier League but he played in the Champions League last season – he’s not too shabby.

“He’s settled straight away. I can see that every day in training. He’s shown potential in his performances so far and that potential will come through.”

Smith says that although the player is yet to score for Villa, he has demonstrated other qualities. “There’s certainly no frustration with Wesley from me and his teammates. He showed me enough in pre-season to show me he’s going to be a top player. He never hides away from the ball, he goes and competes. He’ll get better and better. He hasn’t had an awful lot of chances so far but I’ll probably name you 14 clubs’ centre-forwards who won’t get a chance at Tottenham.

“He has created chances for a few of the players. He drew two centre-halves to him against Tottenham for John McGinn to get in and get the first goal in the Premier League for us. He set up Trezeguet and Neil Taylor [against Bournemouth]. He brings other people into play. He’s two games into a season and one goal behind Mo Salah at the moment. I’m not judging centre-forwards this early in the season.”

Some of the doubts about Wesley may come from the fact he can look cumbersome when running but that is a deceptive consequence of having one leg nearly 3cm shorter than the other, a feature that initially drew comments at his previous clubs before his performances convinced people to disregard it. The other quibble is that he has not yet proven he is as strong in possession as his size suggests he should be but that must be balanced against the fact that Villa have not been very quick to get support up to him.

McGinn has been the most frequent beneficiary while the wide players, Trezeguet and especially Anwar El Ghazi, have not yet dovetailed with the central striker consistently enough.

Jack Grealish, meanwhile, has operated mostly in a deeper role than last season, so has not been able to support attacks as much. These may be understandable growing pains for a new team in a new league. If so, Villa need to overcome them quickly. Smith says they are on the right track.

“I think our most likely goalscorer at the moment has looked like it’s going to be John McGinn,” says Smith. “He’s made some really deep runs into the opposition half. Saying that, Jack Grealish had a really good chance last week, Wesley teed up Trezeguet for a good chance. Neil Taylor even got in the opposition box last week and had two chances. So we’re creating chances, we just need to start taking them. I’m sure [the goals] will come.”

They will not come easily against Everton, whose previously leaky defence proves the theory that time plus good coaching equals improvement. Marco Silva’s side have conceded in only one of their past 10 matches. If Villa became the first to score against them this season there would be a surge of optimism, especially if the goal came from Wesley."
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 09:38:13 AM
Hopefully he starts to come good, starting tonight.  Still think it's madness leaving the club so short in the striker department when the rest of the business was so good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nev on August 23, 2019, 09:51:56 AM
Hopefully he starts to come good, starting tonight.  Still think it's madness leaving the club so short in the striker department when the rest of the business was so good.

So do I, and we were all quick to criticise Bruce for his decision to leave the defence so exposed last season we need to be consistent. The caveat of course is that we do have goals in midfield so I hope the players repay Dean's faith, either way we'll be buying a striker come the turn of the year.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on August 23, 2019, 10:07:57 AM
Hopefully he starts to come good, starting tonight.  Still think it's madness leaving the club so short in the striker department when the rest of the business was so good.

So do I, and we were all quick to criticise Bruce for his decision to leave the defence so exposed last season we need to be consistent. The caveat of course is that we do have goals in midfield so I hope the players repay Dean's faith, either way we'll be buying a striker come the turn of the year.

Not really the same thing for me Nev, we have 7 players competing for 4 positions in attack. I think once the transfer window was shut last season we had 3 players for 2 positions at centre half, one of which was a central midfielder that looked out of place there and one was a loanee who had previously played right back for us.
I must admit, my early thoughts are that 3-4 of those attacking players are going to struggle but at least the players are there. Might need to bring someone in January unless we see improvements in a few of them though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mallo on August 23, 2019, 10:09:45 AM
All he can do is keep trying - it's not his fault we don't have credible alternatives. I don't think he'll score tonight but if his performances keep getting better that's enough for now. Want to see him score against Palace though.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: lukey27 on August 23, 2019, 10:21:31 AM
For me, he's looked a lot better facing goal with the ball at his feet. Back to goal it's been very hit and miss so far, touch not great and has given away possession a number of times. But when it's rolled into him and he can turn you can see the player there. He grew into the game last week and when the alternatives are Davis and Kodjia, Wesley will start if he's fit.

I'm inclined to think he'll come good, but it's very early days to be calling it either way.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Chris Smith on August 23, 2019, 10:32:08 AM
Hopefully he starts to come good, starting tonight.  Still think it's madness leaving the club so short in the striker department when the rest of the business was so good.

So do I, and we were all quick to criticise Bruce for his decision to leave the defence so exposed last season we need to be consistent. The caveat of course is that we do have goals in midfield so I hope the players repay Dean's faith, either way we'll be buying a striker come the turn of the year.

It is risky but if we couldn’t get the right player it was surely better to wait and not get lumbered with a short term fix. We’ve had too many in the past that we are stuck with who then don’t play.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 10:43:04 AM
Hat trick tonight please Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 10:50:31 AM

It is risky but if we couldn’t get the right player it was surely better to wait and not get lumbered with a short term fix. We’ve had too many in the past that we are stuck with who then don’t play.

I agree we shouldn't just buy for the sake of it, but I'm really surprised we didn't go for Maupay.  I reckon he'd have fitted in really well, and could play the Wesley role, or one of the support roles like El Ghazi or Trez.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on August 23, 2019, 03:08:36 PM
Wesley was recommended to Smith rather than Smith requesting .
 Deano can coach this raw talent let's hope he starts getting the chances
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dr Butler on August 23, 2019, 03:11:07 PM
here's to big Wes to bagging one or three tonight :)


UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on August 23, 2019, 06:37:55 PM
Just because he’s a big player doesn’t mean his strength is as a traditional target man.  Benteke always looked better when that ball was played into his feet rather than his head and I think the same for Wesley.

Also think when he drops deeper that will help us get higher up the pitch with players running past him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on August 23, 2019, 08:22:44 PM
Best striker ever...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on August 23, 2019, 08:24:34 PM
Natural finish that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 23, 2019, 09:55:58 PM
Absolutely superb today once he settled down
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ger Regan on August 23, 2019, 10:00:06 PM
Brilliant game. The thing that stood out for me over the summer were the amount of reports of him needing confidence and an arm around the shoulder to succeed. That should go a fair way for him to get the fans properly onside. Delighted for him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Goldie.7 on August 23, 2019, 10:03:24 PM
I was heavily critical of his last two performances but credit where it's due, today he was unplayable. He raised his game from a generous 6 to an outstanding 9.5.

Keep it up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Baldy on August 23, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Brilliant game Wes, a 50 million quid performance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa Lew on August 23, 2019, 10:10:21 PM
Superb tonight the next John Carew!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: itbrvilla on August 23, 2019, 10:11:41 PM
Pleased for him. Push on. We're being you!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 23, 2019, 10:16:15 PM
Quote
Aston Villa striker Wesley tells BBC Sport: "I am very happy tonight, what a performance from the team. We worked hard, played very well and we hope to continue like this week by week then we will see what happens.

"The manager knows me, he sees me everyday working hard and the supporters know me too. I keep calm, I know my qualities and today you saw that I can do.

"I hope to continue like this, the last two games were very difficult but now I have to help my team with goals.

"The noise was incredible, the supporters were unbelievable and I hope they continue like this to help us.

"I have to work hard everyday and continue like this."
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: richtheholtender on August 23, 2019, 10:37:30 PM
Superb tonight the next John Carew!


Remind me of Dalian Atkinson
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on August 23, 2019, 10:39:32 PM
Really well taken goal and he was on fire after that. Some lovely hold up play - strength, skill, vision. Bet he’s horrible to play against.

Looks easily triggered though - can see him getting the Mings headlock of love a few times this season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smirker on August 23, 2019, 10:45:46 PM
I feel that tonight was the making of Big Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on August 23, 2019, 10:47:26 PM
It's certainly shown him he's capable of playing in this league.  Confidence now has to be on the up, looking forward to him continuing his education.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on August 23, 2019, 11:09:59 PM
Worries averted, got a chance took it. Nice one big man!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: QuintonVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:17:32 PM
Superb tonight. Gone from being bullied to being the bully in three games. Held everything up and brought others in to play all game. Will be a crowd favourite the way he puts himself about and backs his team mates up aswell.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: charleeco7 on August 23, 2019, 11:21:54 PM
I honestly don’t think he played any better than he did than last week but he scored. The lad has everything you need to score 15-20 goals a season just give him time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on August 23, 2019, 11:55:32 PM
Anyone still trawling through the list of free agents?

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on August 23, 2019, 11:58:24 PM
He played really well. Fair play. Made some sensible and unselfish runs to bring other players into the game.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 23, 2019, 11:59:31 PM
Anyone still trawling through the list of free agents?

Unlikely as most other fans are enjoying the result.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ColinMac on August 24, 2019, 12:36:51 AM
Anyone still trawling through the list of free agents?

Unlikely as most other fans are enjoying the result.

Regardless of what happened tonight we are still a striker short, so if someone can come up with a decent free agent then great, no need for petty point scoring from anyone.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on August 24, 2019, 01:12:34 AM
He was brilliant tonight. Set the standard for what we want to see going forward. Well done Wes!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 24, 2019, 01:33:03 AM
He was much better tonight. Brilliant? Overall? Not quite. He was great for both the goals, certainly, and that's what has counted in the end.

Massive relief for him, I'm sure, to score his first. Here's to loads more.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 10:50:15 AM
It was such a good run for his goal.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2019, 10:52:03 AM
Really pleased for him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithe on August 24, 2019, 10:55:57 AM
Thought he was excellent, played the unselfish lone striker role to near perfection. He obviously listens to his instructions carefully and does what he’s told.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: London Villan on August 24, 2019, 11:05:48 AM
Getting up to PL speed, not bad in three games.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on August 24, 2019, 11:32:51 AM
He was much better tonight. Brilliant? Overall? Not quite. He was great for both the goals, certainly, and that's what has counted in the end.

Massive relief for him, I'm sure, to score his first. Here's to loads more.
Considering he was playing against a side that don't concede much and against Mina, a very awkward man to be marked by ...
... he won a fair bit of ball, competed well, held the ball up better than his first 2 games and looked a decent lone striker generally. His movement was excellent too, helped by some of Jota's dinked passes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: thick_mike on August 24, 2019, 11:38:34 AM
He definitely has a lot of Jota love. I noticed as soon as Jota came on against Bournemouth Wes made a run in front of the defenders and Jota found him immediately. It paid off last night with the same move leading to his goal. You can tell those two love playing with each other.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hinckley Dave on August 24, 2019, 11:45:05 AM
Had a very encouraging game, confidence grew after the goal. Also wouldn't surprise me if Dean had a word during the week about being stronger and going down easily and flapping your arms about doesn't wash. Used his strength well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 24, 2019, 12:08:56 PM
He was much better tonight. Brilliant? Overall? Not quite. He was great for both the goals, certainly, and that's what has counted in the end.

Massive relief for him, I'm sure, to score his first. Here's to loads more.
Considering he was playing against a side that don't concede much and against Mina, a very awkward man to be marked by ...
... he won a fair bit of ball, competed well, held the ball up better than his first 2 games and looked a decent lone striker generally. His movement was excellent too, helped by some of Jota's dinked passes.

I agree. Considering he was up against two big units, he bullied them well, held the ball up, brought others into play, really encouraging signs.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on August 24, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
It was good to see him giving the Everton players some stick for dirty play and not taking any shit from them.  At Tottenham, I thought he was too easily bullied and has learned from that.  His movement and close control was very good and he shows massive promise.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: purpletrousers on August 24, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
I enjoyed the unusual opportunity after he’d scored to turn to my mate and point out 2/3 of Villa’s goals this season were Brazilian.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: andyh on August 25, 2019, 12:01:14 AM
I’m really pleased to see Wes doing Tv interviews.
Even though English is not his first language, he has the balls to stand in front of the cameras and chat.
That tells you so much about him and his belief and confidence.

Oh, and his English is pretty bloody good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: FatSam on August 25, 2019, 12:15:46 AM
I’m really pleased to see Wes doing Tv interviews.
Even though English is not his first language, he has the balls to stand in front of the cameras and chat.
That tells you so much about him and his belief and confidence.

Oh, and his English is pretty bloody good.

Yes, it shows a certain amount of courage, as well as the capacity for hard work.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 25, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
What yesterday also showed is we shouldn’t judge players too quickly. We’ve all been guilty of it. He’s a young kid in a new country, club and in a league much tougher than anything previously in his career. His performance was a massive leap forward and it will give him immense confidence when he reviews it back with the staff and other players. He knows he is able to operate at this level now. Just needs to continue to work hard and stay focused. We really do love our centre forwards at Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ozzjim on August 25, 2019, 08:00:39 AM
How has he got fluent English after 6 weeks? Some players take about 5 years to learn 3 words!

Thought he was outstanding, to the point where if he has 15 games like that over a season we will be close to staying up with Mingels at the back.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smithy on August 25, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
How has he got fluent English after 6 weeks? Some players take about 5 years to learn 3 words!

Thought he was outstanding, to the point where if he has 15 games like that over a season we will be close to staying up with Mingels at the back.

I remember reading that during his time with Trenčín there was another player there who he used to speak with in English. Sounds like he was preparing!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 17, 2019, 10:39:24 AM
He might come good but he’s going to be bloody frustrating

That's all I can hold on to.
I don't yet see enough consistent attributes in him , lacking in the goal threat and contribution to the teams attacking play. Offers little outlet and provides little movement , unable to hold or pass the ball and has been wanting when in possession . Suspect tempremant . Service or no service must do more  Time will have to tell. But he's raw talent in polite terms

The thing is people call for another striker to come in then what's gonna happen with big Wes . £22 million confined to the bench come January. Admission of failure ?! The key signing in the summer had to be a new centre forward and at the moment it's failing miserably. Why the money didn't go on maupay I never know.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 17, 2019, 11:03:10 AM
It's way too early to write him off, but it was majorly pissing me off today when he either jogged to close down their keeper or didn't bother at all. What happened to the much-vaunted Dean Smith press ?

Yeah still continues after 5 matches. His jogging around is infuriating. I guess it's his style as it looks like a lack of effort.
 Early on V West Ham he did close the GK down once but he doesn't do the hustle that's necessary from the front
We have to be fair in that the recruitment of Nakamba seems decent but isn't the story they were impressed seeing Wesley and scouted him too.
I don't think he was the target ! And now we ended up with him!
I said before he's no Dean Smith signing. Doesn't add the effectiveness in pressing that Deano demands. Looks like he was 'advised' to sign him.
I think he must have one heck of an agent the move sold to us under the guise of champions league player and the offer of some Brazilian flair. In words of Roy Keane "do me a favor"
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2019, 11:55:55 AM
I'm seeing some good signs about Wesley and if we can play further up the field as a team he'll come good.
His movement and strength were good yesterday. Shuld have buried the header - for sure - but we need as a team to be moe offensive generally.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 17, 2019, 01:14:12 PM
He’s not good enough.  I would drop him and play Davis at Arsenal that’s how high in regard his ability right now
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 17, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
He’s not good enough.  I would drop him and play Davis at Arsenal that’s how high in regard his ability right now

Agree, WW, rest him, bring Davis in and make Wesley fight for his place. Thought he improved against Everton but reverted back to Spurs performance last night
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on September 17, 2019, 01:38:06 PM
I think we need to get players up and around him, positionally. Or play someone up with him. I like him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: CT Villan on September 17, 2019, 01:48:36 PM
I read in the post-match thread that some people think the reason for his apparent poor performance was because he was isolated. I disagree, when he did receive a pass his first-touch was terrible and if he felt isolated he should move into a better-supported area like Harry Kane does. He needs to step up his effort significantly, right now he's more Bowery than Benteke. The only reason he is playing is because he is a bigger goal threat than Davis - scary !
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on September 17, 2019, 01:56:54 PM
We created one chance for him, which admittedly he should have scored. But not too many strikers have 100% success rate and even less approximately 340 minutes into their Premier League careers.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 17, 2019, 05:11:36 PM
The Jury is still out.

Do not like the going down looking for a free kick antics either.

Not sure that he is any better than Davis.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KRS on September 19, 2019, 07:13:46 AM
It’s still early days, but would have liked him to kick on and raise his game after his goal against Everton but he hasn’t so far. I hope he comes good but he needs support and the right supply to do so. I also don’t think his role as the loan striker in this formation suits him, so Dean may need to go back to the drawing board to address issues in midfield and up front.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 19, 2019, 08:44:42 AM
For me he is the new Rudy Gestede without Rudy's excellent temperament.  A Billy Big Bollocks I fear.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bren'd on September 19, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
He's scored one goal which he's taken well. He wasn't at his best v West Ham but then quite a few of the team were in that category. He needs to start showing that he can cope with the physicality of the Prem and to stay on his feet. It might help him if Jack could play closer to him.   
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on September 19, 2019, 09:40:20 AM
For me he is the new Rudy Gestede without Rudy's excellent temperament.  A Billy Big Bollocks I fear.
In what way is he a Billy Big Bollocks?

I've always had my doubts about him but think you're writing him off a bit early here Brian.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 19, 2019, 09:47:51 AM
Lack of effort and body language primarily Chris.  I hope I am wrong but strongly suspect that I am not.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on September 19, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
Lack of effort and body language primarily Chris.  I hope I am wrong but strongly suspect that I am not.
ok, I see what you're getting at.

I think he works pretty hard, but is cutting a bit of a frustrated figure.  As said, I'm still sceptical about him but have seen enough to give me some hope he'll come good.  I still think it was a really strange transfer for us to make though.  It's all very well gambling when you are looking to supplement a strong established squad, but betting the house on him when we had such a thin squad seemed an odd move to me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 19, 2019, 12:00:24 PM
His body language and his antics under pressure have been appalling as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate it's never easy to lead the line by yourself and it's twice as difficult being brought into the richest league in the world as a promoted club's record signing, but he's failing the minimum requirements of the role at present:

Stay strong, receive the ball with back to goal, hold it up, bring teammates into the game. Goals are nice but tbh they're a bit of an added bonus from him given the way we're set up to play, I'd say his target is somewhere around 10 as opposed to the 20s.

He did well at the above criteria in the Everton game. But that's 1 game out of 5. He's cut a miserable figure in the rest, and he's not being asked to bang in hat-tricks. If you can't stay on your feet under slight pressure from your defender in this league, you'll get eaten for breakfast every time. Defenders must love him, knowing the refs will never blow for those.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: The Edge on September 19, 2019, 12:35:13 PM
I thought he worked his nuts off against West Ham. He just isn't getting the ball in areas where he can be a goal threat. He was coming deep looking for the ball far too often for my liking. He was unlucky with the cross from Grealish the other night. He was too keen to attack the ball and got there a gnats cock too soon which meant the ball was fractionally behind him. But i'm not gonna knock him for that. I think we have a top player on our hands here and a few tweaks in the way we get the ball to him will eventually see him rattling the net on quite a regular basis. We're building a new team while playing against some top clubs. It will take time and i'm still massively confident we about the future down in good old B6.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on September 19, 2019, 12:59:23 PM
I have no issue with him coming deeper but it has to be something we've worked on and coincide with the wingers running in behind him  because it forces defenders to make decisions, as a centre back you either come out with him or you let him take a touch and bring other players into the game. As  defensive midfielder you either stick with the 8 who's looking to break into the box or you challenge the 9 who's moved into your 'area'. As a full back you either follow your winger and expect the guy in front of you to cover the opposition full back or you hold your position and ask the centre back to pick him up.

Watch Liverpool play, this is pretty much their entire attacking strategy and it works because sometimes the decisions made by the defenders don't work together and you create gaps, do that 3-4 times in a game and there are your chances to win it, without you having done anything particularly difficult.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Oscar Arce on September 19, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
I've watched Wesley very carefully in all the games he's played, his main problem is he just doesn't get anywhere near the box anywhere enough.
His general ball retention is not up to scratch (aside from one game) and he always wants to fall down if he gets any sort of a challenge.
He needs people to join him quicker, which isn't happening.
When crosses come in to the box he needs to be quicker and sharper, and needs to get in front of and across defenders, which hasn't happened very often.
He also seems languid in his style, I know he's a big man but he needs to move quicker once he's laid the ball off, he's often watching play once that happens.
Also his closing down from the front is non-existant, watch how many times other players are buzzing around whilst he is allowing defenders to progress with the ball.
All in all, of course the Jury's out and I hope I'm wrong, but I've seen centre forwards from Brian Greenhalgh, John Woodward and John Inglis onwards (and they were pretty dire, trust me) and he doesn't cut the mustard so far I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: levico on September 19, 2019, 04:08:26 PM
Might be quite effective in the Championship (which is where we may be if we don’t sign new strikers in January). I think it’s safe to say that he’ll never score 20 PL goals in a season for us or any other club.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 19, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Beneteke scored twice in his first dozen or so league games for us, Wesley may not make it but it's a bit early to be writing him off imo.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 19, 2019, 04:32:06 PM
Might be quite effective in the Championship (which is where we may be if we don’t sign new strikers in January). I think it’s safe to say that he’ll never score 20 PL goals in a season for us or any other club.

Is he meant to though?  I mean did Dion or Carew or Yorke or Benteke or Atkinson?
How many strikers even score 20 PL goals a season?  Kane Aguero Salah um...Vardy?

We play 4-3-3 so is Wesley meant to get most of our goals or are the wide forwards supposed to weigh in with their fare share too?  I can't see Liverpool giving Mane and Salah a free pass for not scoring in five games because Firmino is the number nine.

He's had five games, whether we're not creating enough for him, or whether he's not doing enough to get those chances is up for debate. It's probably both.

I expect him to get about ten goals this season, I'm crossing all fingers and toes that one of El Ghazi Trezegeut Jota Kodja. starts to weigh in with goals too, otherwise the 4-3-3 is a waste of time and we should play with two orthodox strikers instead.

Long post but my point is that El Ghazi has also only scored one, but isn't getting anywhere near as much criticism. We play with three forwards, it seems overly harsh to only castigate one for not scoring.   
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: martyn ellis on September 19, 2019, 04:55:22 PM
My own view is that he is skilful in tight situations, he holds the ball up well and he lays it off well. I also think he anticipates well (see goal against Everton and a cross from the left on Monday night when he moved in front of all the defenders and narrowly missed contact with the ball. And to anyone who thinks he's lazy, I just don't see it. On Monday he spent a lot of time closing down, harrying and generally making a nuisance of himself. If he'd scored that crashing header from Jack's cross on Monday, that would complete my assessment - just needs to improve in that department, but I think he'll get there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 19, 2019, 05:17:54 PM
For me he is the new Rudy Gestede without Rudy's excellent temperament.  A Billy Big Bollocks I fear.

I think Bily Big Bollocks is a tad harsh. I've not seen much evidence of that. He was excellent against Everton but other than that, I've not been overly impressed so far but it's early days.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KevinGage on September 19, 2019, 06:39:36 PM
It would be nice if we were in a position to bring him along gradually, that is, as an option from the bench to supplement or replace a more experienced forward.

We're asking him to make a big step up and I'm sot sure he's ready.

Some promising signs, but we need more - in all facets of his game. 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on September 19, 2019, 08:06:51 PM
Beneteke scored twice in his first dozen or so league games for us, Wesley may not make it but it's a bit early to be writing him off imo.

Benteke was raw early on but still looked a threat in the box. Wesley doesn't look a threat at all in the air. His hold up play isn't bad, as he showed v Everton, and can improve further. Not much point playing wide players if there isn't movement and a threat from our lone striker. We start playing through the middle more with Grealish and McGinn getting beyond Wesley and I'm convinced we will improve. It means Smith throwing his current tactical script in the bin, mind.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Chipsticks on September 25, 2019, 02:47:45 PM
Good insight from a Club Brugge fan:

As a Club Brugge supporter I’ve been watching Villa closely this season.

We all agree on one thing. You’re not using Wesley in the right way, although he’s doing ok.

Even though he’s a big lad and has a lot of strength, his real strength are his feet. He can a pass a ball, as you could see in preseason.

He really should be used in a way that Firmino is used at Liverpool. He creates a lot of space and he can give your wingers a great pass. He should stay that high up the pitch all game long. He used to be an attacking midfielder.

I can understand why you’re using Wesley the way you’re doing though. He benefits a lot from wingers with a big load of pace. The wingers at Villa aren’t slow, but they really rely on their technical abilities.

I could really see a Redmond type of player succeeding at Villa while Big Wes is playing.

I’m sure he’ll work out great for you. He’s a fantastic player.

The best of luck to you guys and up the Villa!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 25, 2019, 02:50:48 PM
Way too early to judge him. Also he needs proper support from the team.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 25, 2019, 02:56:54 PM
1in 3 so far and we aint clicked yet

so he will come good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on September 25, 2019, 02:58:10 PM
He got one goal in his last 13 games at Bruges, so not sure they were getting the best out of him either.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: curiousorange on September 28, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
Well, he needs a partner or a spell on the bench.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on September 28, 2019, 05:38:39 PM
With the exception of Engels, he’s been thrown in at the deep end and at the moment isn’t really performing.  It’s unfortunate we’ve not been able to bring him into the side slowly.

I still think there is a player there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: curiousorange on September 28, 2019, 05:40:12 PM
The guy has too many attributes not to be able to fit in somewhere. But it's not as a lone striker in a 4-3-3, we know that much.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: glinch on September 28, 2019, 05:42:02 PM
The pretending to be kicked in the head / hit by the ball in face incident appeared to be completely ridiculous. Was he remotely injured/concussed?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 05:46:03 PM
The pretending to be kicked in the head / hit by the ball in face incident appeared to be completely ridiculous. Was he remotely injured/concussed?

Good acting by the ball, if he was only pretending to have it kicked in his face.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on September 28, 2019, 05:57:10 PM
Davis deserves some starts.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: achilles on September 28, 2019, 06:13:33 PM
Basically he can't head a ball which I understood to be a basic requirement of a centre forward (or control a ball for that matter) otherwise apart from not even looking like he might score he is absolutely perfect at ambling around the pitch!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 06:14:36 PM
Not physically competing despite his physique is the most galling of all. Utterly bullied today
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JJ-AV on September 28, 2019, 06:17:13 PM
He's just so raw, has some promising credentials but takes the wrong option too often. The failure was in not getting somebody like Rodriguez in as a stop-gap

It's a cliche but you're only as good as your forwards, and the bottom 3 have the least impressive number 9s in the division.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 28, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
Watch their two goals and you to wonder why the biggest CF on the pitch today didn’t come close to doing that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: manic-road on September 28, 2019, 06:24:56 PM
Wes needs to get in the gym and beef up because he takes the easy option of going to ground every time he's touched, he should be bullying defenders at his size.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 28, 2019, 06:25:54 PM
You can’t beef up your desire and confidence in the gym.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 06:35:14 PM
Sticky?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 28, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
He wins pretty much nothing in the air, which is amazing for such a big bloke, and spends way too much time going to ground and rolling around on the floor.

He's got a decent finish from time to time, but that alone is not enough - there's no way he's worth £22m.

As many of us said, it was a mistake not to buy another striker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 28, 2019, 06:53:56 PM
His body language and his antics under pressure have been appalling as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate it's never easy to lead the line by yourself and it's twice as difficult being brought into the richest league in the world as a promoted club's record signing, but he's failing the minimum requirements of the role at present:

Stay strong, receive the ball with back to goal, hold it up, bring teammates into the game. Goals are nice but tbh they're a bit of an added bonus from him given the way we're set up to play, I'd say his target is somewhere around 10 as opposed to the 20s.

He did well at the above criteria in the Everton game. But that's 1 game out of 5. He's cut a miserable figure in the rest, and he's not being asked to bang in hat-tricks. If you can't stay on your feet under slight pressure from your defender in this league, you'll get eaten for breakfast every time. Defenders must love him, knowing the refs will never blow for those.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Border villan on September 28, 2019, 06:54:58 PM
I want him to do well but today Thomas Cook had more to offer in the air than Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 28, 2019, 06:55:34 PM
I want him to do well but today Thomas Cook had more to offer in the air than Wes.

*applause*
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: montague on September 28, 2019, 06:59:12 PM
Offers nothing Kienan doesn’t
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: frank black on September 28, 2019, 07:04:21 PM
Poor mans Darren Bent. He seems to be good with a chance put in front of him, but poor at the holding and heading. Feels like we are carrying him, rather than him leading the line.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 28, 2019, 07:15:51 PM
He was woeful today
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on September 28, 2019, 07:20:22 PM
The pretending to be kicked in the head / hit by the ball in face incident appeared to be completely ridiculous. Was he remotely injured/concussed?

Good acting by the ball, if he was only pretending to have it kicked in his face.

There is absolutely no way a ball from that distance, and at that speed, should have poleaxed him like that! It was embarrassing.

I'm beginning to think he's not right in the head! 😱
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: garyshawsknee on September 28, 2019, 07:25:02 PM
It seems an odd one as for how poor he has been of late because against Everton he was great, held the ball up well and bullied Mina who's no shrinking violet. Maybe it's a confidence thing, maybe I'm clutching at straws because I don't want him to be a dud.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: CT on September 28, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
Starting to remind me of Savo when he first joined.

Looks raw, and a bit lost at times. Could have done with someone more experienced ahead of him - we are literally pinning all our hopes on him until January at least.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 07:34:39 PM
The pretending to be kicked in the head / hit by the ball in face incident appeared to be completely ridiculous. Was he remotely injured/concussed?

Good acting by the ball, if he was only pretending to have it kicked in his face.

There is absolutely no way a ball from that distance, and at that speed, should have poleaxed him like that! It was embarrassing.

I'm beginning to think he's not right in the head! 😱

Lol, maybe he's more used to those air floaters/pound shop footballs?

One thing I'm wondering about is that I've seen most (but not all) our games so far this season, has Wesley actually hit a shot with any real power yet?  Think Grealish had more attempts than him today. And Jack is somebody who I sometimes think is reluctant to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: murgsy on September 28, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
Probably a really expensive mistake. Is there no one we can take on loan? I wish we still had someone like Grabban....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 28, 2019, 07:47:11 PM
Someone on WM on the way home was lamenting on us letting Hogan go.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 28, 2019, 07:48:44 PM
Probably a really expensive mistake. Is there no one we can take on loan? I wish we still had someone like Grabban....


I really like Grabban, he's a clever player.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 08:09:12 PM
Probably a really expensive mistake. Is there no one we can take on loan? I wish we still had someone like Grabban....


I really like Grabban, he's a clever player.

at championship level he is but hasnt made the step up with a few clubs.

Same with Dwight Gayle and a few others
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: glinch on September 28, 2019, 08:23:59 PM
The pretending to be kicked in the head / hit by the ball in face incident appeared to be completely ridiculous. Was he remotely injured/concussed?

Good acting by the ball, if he was only pretending to have it kicked in his face.

There is absolutely no way a ball from that distance, and at that speed, should have poleaxed him like that! It was embarrassing.

I'm beginning to think he's not right in the head! 😱

To me it looked like he was trying to get the defender booked for a high foot/kick. If he was knocked out and concussed he shouldn't have played on.

Assume he was feigning injury, it was annoying as we were attacking when play got stopped.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on September 28, 2019, 08:27:44 PM
I thought he must have a glass jaw then I saw Walcott get knocked out by being hit in the face by a ball. Footballers must just be very weak.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 28, 2019, 08:29:03 PM
Personally I’m not overly impressed, can he win a header?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on September 28, 2019, 08:31:05 PM
I would give Davis a go and hope it motivates Wesley to sort himself out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 08:33:22 PM
I thought he must have a glass jaw then I saw Walcott get knocked out by being hit in the face by a ball. Footballers must just be very weak.

Or... professional athletes kick footballs a tad harder than we do? 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on September 28, 2019, 08:40:02 PM
I'm calling this - he's shite.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
I'm calling this - he's shite.

Utterly shite. I’d rather put the development time into Davis, who at least works up a sweat. Put this down in the long list of expensive striker flops and buy somebody else in January.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 28, 2019, 10:09:10 PM
Wesley stats v Burnely.

Of 18 touches of ball he had 2 penalty box touches. And no shot at goal .
Fouls conceded 4
Fouled 1
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 28, 2019, 10:19:03 PM
I'm calling this - he's shite.

Utterly shite. I’d rather put the development time into Davis, who at least works up a sweat. Put this down in the long list of expensive striker flops and buy somebody else in January.

Only Che Adams has looked worse in this league as a first team premier league striker.
I would have looked past our pride and taken someone on loan rather than this gamble

It's laughable now when I think back listening to the recruitment policy.

As I repeat I believe the scouting was for Marvelous Nakamba but Wesley caught the eye (must have played a blinder) and some bright spark was like let's get him in
We were Hoodwinked under guise of south American flair and our first Brazilian signing.
Doesn't seem the right temperament or a Dean Smith type . The director recruitment or whoever ballsed this like they did with Kalanic
I'm glad people are calling out.
It didn't even need to take this many games to see he's sub standard for what were about.
The lack of dynamism and attacking flair as well as anything effective in pressing really gets me as much as his feeble way of being some type of striker.
That champions league guff is meaningless when it's for a team that is far less competitive
His credentials are severely lacking and must of been some deal with his agent or brugge to bother bringing him here.
Just an around bizarre move as he is far too hit and miss for what's needed in our situation.
If purslow and the owners were serious about wanting to compete in this division then it's a spectacular fail with this guy leading the line.
We haven't got time for him now to develop whatever he does I don't want him when January come let's bring in someone else
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on September 28, 2019, 10:56:39 PM
He's played 7. Scored 2. Those two were instinctive finishes too.

Smith and Co need to give him more support and perhaps he's more suited or used to a different system.

But writing him off already?

Heaton has only kept 2 clean sheets in 7. Should he go too?

He's in a new team, a new system with new teammates and coaching staff and in a new and higher league. Given those circumstances there aren't many strikers or players that do brilliantly. Just one more goal would give him a fabulous ratio.

Of course he can improve, and he needs to, but ffs don't write him off yet.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2019, 10:59:26 PM
He just lumbers around doing chuff all, not looking remotely like a Premier League player. We were robbed, he’s shite.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SaddVillan on September 28, 2019, 11:04:56 PM
Clearly Wesley is a work in progress.

The questions to which we need the answers are:

Can he?
Will he?
How far?
When will he?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on September 28, 2019, 11:21:58 PM
I don’t blame him for not being good enough, I blame the people who decided to move from Abraham to him as our target striker then failed to buy any back up whatsoever.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 28, 2019, 11:25:30 PM
He's played 7. Scored 2. Those two were instinctive finishes too.

Smith and Co need to give him more support and perhaps he's more suited or used to a different system.

But writing him off already?

Heaton has only kept 2 clean sheets in 7. Should he go too?

He's in a new team, a new system with new teammates and coaching staff and in a new and higher league. Given those circumstances there aren't many strikers or players that do brilliantly. Just one more goal would give him a fabulous ratio.

Of course he can improve, and he needs to, but ffs don't write him off yet.

Nobody is forcing him to roll around on the ground at the drop off a hat or spend ninety minutes throwing his hands in the air and wining.

He will get more chances, yes, but that was one of the most inept centre forward displays I've seen in a villa shirt in a long time
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:10:58 AM
I watched him closely today, he does not win anything in the air because he is picking the flight of the ball later than the Centre half so he is never in a position to win it.
He does not look for a make runs into the Chanel or offer himself early enough to be played in.
He is slow to move away from his marker and makes it easy to play him out of the game.
These are basic Centre forward techniques and he is lacking at this level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 12:11:11 AM
He looks a big, powerful unit but just doesn’t play to those natural strengths. I actually don’t know what he is to be honest. Needs to be more of a presence and give the CB’s more to think about. Cannot be getting bullied like he is. Wood showed him how it’s done today.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2019, 12:52:56 AM
I think he has plenty of promise. I think he’s been let down by the fact he’s essentially been chucked in as senior striker. If we had a more experienced forward then we could gradually bed Wes in, but circumstances mean he’s on a steep learning curve. It’s tough, and I hope he comes through it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 29, 2019, 12:57:35 AM
I don’t blame him for not being good enough, I blame the people who decided to move from Abraham to him as our target striker then failed to buy any back up whatsoever.

That's a fair point
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 29, 2019, 12:58:37 AM
He just lumbers around doing chuff all, not looking remotely like a Premier League player. We were robbed, he’s shite.
And that's even fairer as its completely accurate !!
He's an absolute wasteman
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: purpletrousers on September 29, 2019, 01:05:22 AM
I think he has plenty of promise. I think he’s been let down by the fact he’s essentially been chucked in as senior striker. If we had a more experienced forward then we could gradually bed Wes in, but circumstances mean he’s on a steep learning curve. It’s tough, and I hope he comes through it.

Had to pass on my tix today got a family 90th.
No question of the need to stop moaning, stop feigning, to learn how our league works re: fouls against (maybe that’s enough already) but did he have any chances today?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 29, 2019, 01:12:49 AM
 
I think he has plenty of promise. I think he’s been let down by the fact he’s essentially been chucked in as senior striker. If we had a more experienced forward then we could gradually bed Wes in, but circumstances mean he’s on a steep learning curve. It’s tough, and I hope he comes through it.

Had to pass on my tix today got a family 90th.
No question of the need to stop moaning, stop feigning, to learn how our league works re: fouls against (maybe that’s enough already) but did he have any chances today?



Wesley stats v Burnely.

Of 18 touches of ball he had 2 penalty box touches. And no shot at goal .
Fouls conceded 4
Fouled 1
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on September 29, 2019, 01:19:19 AM
Were playing him as a target man, hes not that kind of striker at all. Tbh I expected Smith to utilise him better, Im sure he said he'd been scouting him for a long time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 29, 2019, 01:23:55 AM
He's played 7. Scored 2. Those two were instinctive finishes too.

Smith and Co need to give him more support and perhaps he's more suited or used to a different system.

But writing him off already?

Heaton has only kept 2 clean sheets in 7. Should he go too?

He's in a new team, a new system with new teammates and coaching staff and in a new and higher league. Given those circumstances there aren't many strikers or players that do brilliantly. Just one more goal would give him a fabulous ratio.

Of course he can improve, and he needs to, but ffs don't write him off yet.
Temu Pukki this season and last .
Raul Jimenez wolves moved to a new country new adaptation.
Basically if good enough it would show.

These strikers work for team and contributed and are goal threats supporters can see how busy they are on and off the ball .

Wesley whole languid style doesn't impress. And he hasn't stepped up to this level . A few champions league matches but that's it.
And no one can compare Heaton who is proven and GK to Wesley who is not at all experienced.
Fair enough if you like him but I don't see little from him in this system
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: purpletrousers on September 29, 2019, 01:28:18 AM
Yes I read the stats footy. My question was did he have chances?

That many touches is pretty low I think, so you could read he didn’t really get much supply, but I suspect from the comments that’s not the full story, Chicago’s comments suggest he’s not making anything for himself, was just curious if he’d been wasteful.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 29, 2019, 01:59:52 AM
Yes I read the stats footy. My question was did he have chances?

That many touches is pretty low I think, so you could read he didn’t really get much supply, but I suspect from the comments that’s not the full story, Chicago’s comments suggest he’s not making anything for himself, was just curious if he’d been wasteful.



He gets touches but he looks too scared to use them properly, hence he makes the wrong decision pretty much always. I think he'll come good but he's not an asset right now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ROBBO on September 29, 2019, 02:08:35 AM
He is and never has been a target man I believe most of his goals last season were from close range his shots from outside of the box so far have been woeful. He may with the right coaching become a useful player he has the size and for a big man isn't slow but we don't have the luxury of time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: London Villan on September 29, 2019, 07:10:04 AM
He had the physical attributes to lead the line, more so than Tammy. But he needs to laern quickly. Are there any free agents players we could bring in?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 07:12:49 AM
Chicago points out what for me is his worst failing.  He cannot judge the flight of the ball in the air.  Time and time again he his attempting to jump at an angle in aerial contests while the defender is jumping vertically.  The result is absolutely precictable.  He wins nothing in the air.  In addition he is lazy and temperamental but those flaws can be corrected with plenty of bollockings.  Inability to judge the movement of the ball in the air is a basic inadequacy in any player let alone a twenty two million pound one.  File under "Strikers who have been scouted by imbeciles" with Hogan and McCormack.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: phantom limb on September 29, 2019, 07:37:05 AM
Both of his goals were from passes to feet, I’m not sure why we keep booting the ball at him the rest of the time as he rarely wins it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 07:45:30 AM
Heading the ball is part of the game.  He is just not very good at it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 07:56:04 AM
The bottom line is that he really shouldn’t be in this position. He’s the type of player you buy, develop, knock the rough edges off and have him come on as an impact sub as a second string to an established striker in his 1st season. To have him as your out and out striker, at 22 with no PL experience is asking a massive amount.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ROBBO on September 29, 2019, 09:02:14 AM
Agree with that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 09:22:31 AM
Chicago points out what for me is his worst failing.  He cannot judge the flight of the ball in the air.  Time and time again he his attempting to jump at an angle in aerial contests while the defender is jumping vertically.  The result is absolutely precictable.  He wins nothing in the air.  In addition he is lazy and temperamental but those flaws can be corrected with plenty of bollockings.  Inability to judge the movement of the ball in the air is a basic inadequacy in any player let alone a twenty two million pound one.  File under "Strikers who have been scouted by imbeciles" with Hogan and McCormack.

A bit harsh to be lumping him in with Hogan and McCormack to be honest.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on September 29, 2019, 09:38:33 AM
Chicago points out what for me is his worst failing.  He cannot judge the flight of the ball in the air.  Time and time again he his attempting to jump at an angle in aerial contests while the defender is jumping vertically.  The result is absolutely precictable.  He wins nothing in the air.  In addition he is lazy and temperamental but those flaws can be corrected with plenty of bollockings.  Inability to judge the movement of the ball in the air is a basic inadequacy in any player let alone a twenty two million pound one.  File under "Strikers who have been scouted by imbeciles" with Hogan and McCormack.

A bit harsh to be lumping him in with Hogan and McCormack to be honest.

McCormack showed promise in his early games at least

A bit like Hogan he appears completely unsuited to the lone centre forward role he was bought for. Goal aside he was as bad in general play v Arsenal. The Everton performance seems a long way off. Needs dropping anyway, a spell coming off the bench might see the diving and card waving antics being dropped at a minimum.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 09:44:09 AM
That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he started with Davis next week.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 09:47:37 AM
Heading the ball is part of the game.  He is just not very good at it.
Worst header of the ball since Sammy Morgan.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 10:01:22 AM
He looks like a sulker to me, so would think he’d react badly to being dropped.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on September 29, 2019, 10:33:21 AM
I definitely don't think he sucks completely, but this adjustment period has been incredibly up and down. He was great against Everton and has been ok in other games, and generally he looks pretty good if he gets on the ball. The trouble is he often goes missing, his movement off the ball is weird, and he's very prone to histrionics which distract him from his game.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 29, 2019, 11:08:27 AM
Raul Jimenez wolves moved to a new country new adaptation.

The Jimenez that scored 6 goals the season before he moved to Wolves, had 2 league goals in his first 10 games for Wolves, didn't score his 3rd until November and has the same number of league goals as Wes this season?

There are concerns about Wes but writing a player off after 7 games is saft imo.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on September 29, 2019, 01:44:11 PM
I like what we're doing with our signings and I don't think Wes is the complete failure that alot seem to think, however if we are to continue with this style (and Smith seems pretty set on it) then we could really do with a big lump up there, like Woods, and then we could bring Wes through gradually . This would be my priority in January.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on September 29, 2019, 02:05:28 PM
He looks fucking rubbish, a real weak link and that's from someone who is positive we are going to stay up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
Itw just as well we're not picking and coaching the team.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 02:47:53 PM
Just seen Ollie Watkins score twice for Brentford, the player I was told about by our Cambridge MP's election agent who is a director of Exeter Ciry.  I passed on the possibility of signing Watkins to Villa in writing but received no reply.  Who signed Watkins from Exeter?  Dean Smith for peanuts.  Who do you think Dean Smith will try to sign in the window?  My money is on Watkins but it will not be for peanuts.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 03:03:12 PM
Make that three goals for Watkins.  All with his head.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 03:05:18 PM
Is Ollie Watkins going to be mentioned every time he scores a goal?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 29, 2019, 03:46:04 PM
Heading the ball is part of the game.  He is just not very good at it.
Worst header of the ball since Sammy Morgan.

Would that be the same Sammy Morgan who scored with a diving header against Arsenal in the FA Cup in 1974 and almost took the roof off the Holte End?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2019, 03:58:18 PM
He needs confidence and you can see when things start to go poorly it gets into his head. That was sort of the comment made about him when he came over that he needs a hug and reassurance.

He's least Brazilian player ever in terms of close control. I'd have thought our scouts would have seen that immediately given the requirements of how we want to play. He needs to be told to cut out the nonsense with falling over and clutching his face. That shit isn't appreciated here. CB's are unforgiving at this level so they will get into his head if he doesn't rise above it.

And he needs someone experience to play alongside or at minimum to compete with him in the squad. It doesn't help him when his primary competition is a player who is even younger and very different type of striker in Kodjia. Who is always injured and frankly a bit crazy.

Wesley can get through this but much of it will be on him to fight through this.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 05:14:27 PM
Yes.  You having a pop at me again Clampy?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 05:17:51 PM
Yes.  You having a pop at me again Clampy?

Just disagreeing Brian. Stop being such a drama queen.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on September 29, 2019, 05:29:46 PM
Me? A Drama Queen?  Why do you have this compulsion to disguise attacks on other posters as normal, easy going friendly banter?  I mentioned Ollie Watkins because he was a striker signed by Dean Smith. Wesley Moraes is a striker signed by Dean Smith.  Moraes is playing very badly.  Watkins scored a hat trick this afternoon.  You cannot let any opportunity pass to rub somebody up the wrong way.  With a snide dig.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 05:33:41 PM
Brian, do calm down. You need a thicker skin. I'll leave it there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 29, 2019, 05:40:36 PM
Were playing him as a target man, hes not that kind of striker at all. Tbh I expected Smith to utilise him better, Im sure he said he'd been scouting him for a long time.

I've been wondering if there's some combination of players that gets him and Davis on the pitch at the same time.

                  Davis
                 Wesley
Targett Grealish McGinn Guilbert
                 Marvelous
          Hause Mings Engels
                  Heaton

Don't think Dean will go for the Christmas tree somehow. Lol
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Richard on September 29, 2019, 05:59:23 PM
The price tag looks even more ridiculous now. I'd have rather spent 15m on Maupay who is much more suited to our system and 7m on Wes as a development project. We were absolutely fleeced by his previous club.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on September 29, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
We've got 5 goals in the last 2 league games and picked up 1 point from them. I'm not overly thrilled with Wesley so far but cutting out the mistakes and being better organised would be a higher priority for me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 07:48:16 PM
We only conceded one goal in the previous three before that though. And that after we were down to ten men.

We unfortunately haven’t been able to match defensive solidity with creating and taking our chances in enough games.

The fact that we have at least shown that we are capable of both is hopefully a precursor to us getting the balance right more often. 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on September 29, 2019, 07:55:30 PM


The more I watch him the less convinced I am.

Someone, whoever scouted him for us must have seen something to warrant paying 22m on him. I'd love to know what it was. Still PLENTY of time for him to develop and improve though of course.

And it's certainly not his fault we've got no other options other than him to get us the goals. A lot of us said we couldn't believe we didn't buy another striker and it could definitely come back and kick us in the nuts.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 07:59:17 PM
Yesterday we kicked nearly every goal kick towards him and launched plenty of other high balls in his direction.
This is a pretty crazy strategy because he is useless in the air.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: TheMalandro on September 29, 2019, 08:02:37 PM
I like him. He’s got a tough job in this team though.


Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 08:25:30 PM


Someone, whoever scouted him for us must have seen something to warrant paying 22m on him. I'd love to know what it was. Still PLENTY of time for him to develop and improve though of course.


Does around £20m get you that close to a complete striker now though since Neymar sent the transfer market completely mental? It’s probably about par for a player in that position that needs to improve and develop.

Certainly some of the strikers, of a similar age and price bracket, that others clubs this year haven’t exactly been blowing the league away either.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on September 29, 2019, 08:29:25 PM
It seems like collective madness to be relying on him for goals, or I guess on goals from midfield.

Tammy showed last season how nice it is to have a prolific striker nicking games for you. Mentally that must be a huge thing for the players.

Take the point about the recent scoring record but when you think about where our goal threat comes from - trezeguet doesn’t seem to have a shot on him, grealish looks like he isn’t the goal scoring midfielder we hoped at this level, oh and were also zero threat from set pieces. So we’re hugely reliant on Mcginn and to a lesser extent AEG who probably shouldn’t be in the side based on overall contribution. We ain’t half making it hard for ourselves.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 30, 2019, 12:27:06 AM
Yes I read the stats footy. My question was did he have chances?

That many touches is pretty low I think, so you could read he didn’t really get much supply, but I suspect from the comments that’s not the full story, Chicago’s comments suggest he’s not making anything for himself, was just curious if he’d been wasteful.

Because of his frail ability in his movement he doesn't get in enough positions to have a chance!
And he and team mates aren't reading from the same page.
Unfortunately he was through on goal but didn't hold his line as that would have been a big chance but was offside
He also failed to control it in the box letting it bounce over him one time !
Sloppy as Dean Smith said
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on September 30, 2019, 07:36:27 AM
The two goals he's scored so far were taken pretty well and other than the header which he should have put away the other week, I don't recall him missing many others chances. He does need to get himself involved more in the game though which hopefully will come. I've not been overly impressed so far but it's too early to write him off just yet.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 30, 2019, 08:05:50 AM
He's bang average this lad. Filling Tammy's shoes was always going to be difficult, but doing so with this fella to the tune of £22m+ was daft. Particularly when we refused to stump up 20 for Maupay.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Chris Smith on September 30, 2019, 08:30:54 AM
He’s not the first and won’t be the last to take time to adapt to playing in a new country. A little premature to be passing judgment in my view.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 30, 2019, 08:41:38 AM
He’s not the first and won’t be the last to take time to adapt to playing in a new country. A little premature to be passing judgment in my view.

It's not as if he was pulling up trees in Belgium either and he was there 3+ seasons.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 30, 2019, 08:49:47 AM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 30, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?

Go on, I'll let you.  I raise you one Juan Pablo Angel. 1 goal in his first 9 appearances.

Moving country, new league, coming into an established experienced premier league team.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on September 30, 2019, 09:05:22 AM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?

Go on, I'll let you.  I raise you one Juan Pablo Angel. 1 goal in his first 9 appearances.

Moving country, new league, coming into an established experienced premier league team.

A fair few said he was shit too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 30, 2019, 09:07:16 AM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?

Go on, I'll let you.  I raise you one Juan Pablo Angel. 1 goal in his first 9 appearances.

Moving country, new league, coming into an established experienced premier league team.

JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 30, 2019, 09:31:05 AM
One in three ideally. Record signing yes, newly promoted side who don't fashion many chances, or keep clean sheets also yes.

He was crap Saturday, maybe he'll always be crap, but maybe that Everton game wasn't played by his twin brother and we can get that out of him again?

If we're going to play 4-3-3 the other wide forwards need about 8 goals apiece too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on September 30, 2019, 10:19:38 AM
One in three ideally. Record signing yes, newly promoted side who don't fashion many chances, or keep clean sheets also yes.


One in three would mean he would end up with 13 (being generous and rounding up). Only three players (Vardy twice and Callum Wilson) outside the top six have managed more that in the past two seasons so would represent a very impressive season given he is young and new to the team/league.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on September 30, 2019, 10:31:06 AM
One in three ideally. Record signing yes, newly promoted side who don't fashion many chances, or keep clean sheets also yes.


One in three would mean he would end up with 13 (being generous and rounding up). Only three players (Vardy twice and Callum Wilson) outside the top six have managed more that in the past two seasons so would represent a very impressive season given he is young and new to the team/league.

Exactly. Note the use of the term "ideally".  8)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on September 30, 2019, 11:37:09 AM
Yesterday we kicked nearly every goal kick towards him and launched plenty of other high balls in his direction.
This is a pretty crazy strategy because he is useless in the air.
This was an issue that really did my head in. He clearly was not going to get anything in the air against the Burnley CB, and yet Haton continued to put it up there for him. Madness.
Furthermore, both Mings and Engels were guilty of delaying their passes out of defence when Wesley was making moves into the channels; which menant he either didn't get the pass at all or was disadvantaged by being covered by a defender.
We have to play the ball to feet, and he looks good when that happens. I think he is a promising player and will come good when the team are thinking and acting more quickly and incisively.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on September 30, 2019, 12:49:09 PM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?

Go on, I'll let you.  I raise you one Juan Pablo Angel. 1 goal in his first 9 appearances.

Moving country, new league, coming into an established experienced premier league team.

JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: exigo on September 30, 2019, 12:51:34 PM
Also, as we've seen, he takes a great penalty. If the likes of Jack, McGinn, Trez and El Ghazi were driving into the area more, he'd have more chance of taking them.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 30, 2019, 12:57:19 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on September 30, 2019, 01:54:12 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
'every time' ....
... I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
If we play to his strengths, he won't get 'knee-capped' because he'll either have laid the ball off or gone on a run.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on September 30, 2019, 01:59:52 PM
With regards to sharing the goals amongst the teams, I was reading something last season about number of goals scored correlating quite closely with number of points gained.

On that basis, if we were to look at needing to score, say, 45 goals between the whole team across the season then I think something like this doesn’t look completely unreasonable (and doesn’t take into account we may well improve the team/squad in January):

Wesley/Davis/Kodjia - 15-18 goals
El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Jota - 12-15 goals
Midfield - 10-15 goals
Defence - 3-5 goals
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 30, 2019, 02:08:21 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
'every time' ....
... I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
If we play to his strengths, he won't get 'knee-capped' because he'll either have laid the ball off or gone on a run.

Hard for him to do that when he's gone down under the slightest pressure from his marker. And yes, it is every time he has his back to goal and the defender comes near him, or near enough as makes no difference.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on September 30, 2019, 02:27:40 PM
It’s not just the goals. I think we can all agree he probably hasn’t been bought as a prolific goal scorer, but as a minimum he should be making himself a nuisance, holding up play and releasing other attackers, and he didn’t do any of those things on the weekend.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pat McMahon on September 30, 2019, 02:32:54 PM
Yesterday we kicked nearly every goal kick towards him and launched plenty of other high balls in his direction.
This is a pretty crazy strategy because he is useless in the air.
This was an issue that really did my head in. He clearly was not going to get anything in the air against the Burnley CB, and yet Haton continued to put it up there for him. Madness.
Furthermore, both Mings and Engels were guilty of delaying their passes out of defence when Wesley was making moves into the channels; which menant he either didn't get the pass at all or was disadvantaged by being covered by a defender.
We have to play the ball to feet, and he looks good when that happens. I think he is a promising player and will come good when the team are thinking and acting more quickly and incisively.

I did notice him  running into the right wing channel a couple of times in the first half  but the pass never came. I think Burnley were very well organised - Dyche is a good defensive coach - but we were slow in making our passes. Delaying a split second in this league means the chance disappears.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on September 30, 2019, 09:35:30 PM
Just watching the ManU Arsenal game, just seen Pepe have a shot Wesley would have been crucified for.

Pepe ....72m......1 goal so far (a pen)
Wesley .....22m.....2 goals

Maybe we just need a bit of patience ....

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 30, 2019, 10:09:05 PM
To be fair it's a really difficult role he's being asked to do in this set-up and there have been times when he has looked pretty useful.  However, his willingness to go to ground when his marker has simply been quicker and stronger to the ball isn't likely to gain him many friends (or much patience). 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on September 30, 2019, 10:46:10 PM

One in three ideally. Record signing yes, newly promoted side who don't fashion many chances, or keep clean sheets also yes.


One in three would mean he would end up with 13 (being generous and rounding up). Only three players (Vardy twice and Callum Wilson) outside the top six have managed more that in the past two seasons so would represent a very impressive season given he is young and new to the team/league.

Exactly. Note the use of the term "ideally".  8)

Last season premier league goals by these strikers

Jimenez 13
Glenn Murray  13
Perez 12
Ashley Barnes 12
Rondon  11 goals
Mitrovric 11 goals -relegated
Chris wood 10

The worst scorers were Huddersfield scored 22 goals
And their main striker Mounie 2 goals (31 matches)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on September 30, 2019, 11:44:11 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
'every time' ....
... I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
If we play to his strengths, he won't get 'knee-capped' because he'll either have laid the ball off or gone on a run.

Also this is a completely different point, the original post asked  very simply if we were looking for 1 in 4 from our striker and, as I said,  i think it would be fine if we're getting it right with how we want to be playing.

Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villa75 on October 01, 2019, 02:37:10 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
'every time' ....
... I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
If we play to his strengths, he won't get 'knee-capped' because he'll either have laid the ball off or gone on a run.

Also this is a completely different point, the original post asked  very simply if we were looking for 1 in 4 from our striker and, as I said,  i think it would be fine if we're getting it right with how we want to be playing.

Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.

Unless, with a decent striker, we could have scored 6.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 01, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
JPA scored 1 in 4. Is that what we're hoping for from our lone striker and record signing?

Just to put that in perspective, that's 9 goals a season in the league. Enough to keep us up?

Darren Bent, incidentally, had a 1:2 goals to game ratio for Villa, and nobody raves about him as a club legend.

If 2 of AEG/Jack/McGinn/Jota/Trez get a similar number then yes, 1 in 4 from Wesley is fine as he gives us a focal point. The role of the 9 in formations like ours isn't about scoring a hatful of goals.

He's not only there to score goals, correct. But given that he goes down like he's been knee-capped every time a defender breathes in his general vicinity, I'd say he's proving a very ineffective "focal point" at present.
'every time' ....
... I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
If we play to his strengths, he won't get 'knee-capped' because he'll either have laid the ball off or gone on a run.

Also this is a completely different point, the original post asked  very simply if we were looking for 1 in 4 from our striker and, as I said,  i think it would be fine if we're getting it right with how we want to be playing.

Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.

So if he's not scoring and he can't hold up the ball, what's his benefit as a "focal point" exactly?

Do the players not know which direction the goal is in unless Big Wes is front of them?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 01, 2019, 03:30:04 PM
Sure the coaching staff are working on him as best they can. Am worried about knee jerk reactions eg kodja/Davis  the first totally disinterested, the second definitely not premiership standard
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
I think Kodjia has been frightfully unlucky with injuries
He's currently injured from a training ground clash by Nakamba where Jimmy now has to wear a protective mask.
I think he has enough skills to cope in the big league and would be a welcome choice up front .
Both he and Davis are out of contract come season end so they could be performing for a new deal .
Would be interested to see how Kodjia would get on in matches has he does have some ability
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 01, 2019, 11:06:03 PM
Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.

So if he's not scoring and he can't hold up the ball, what's his benefit as a "focal point" exactly?

Do the players not know which direction the goal is in unless Big Wes is front of them?

As I said, he's inconsistent at the moment, it's not something exclusive to him as a player in his early 20s moving to the premier league. I've seen enough to see that he can bully defenders (Everton for most of the game and in fits and starts in most other games) and his movement is pretty good which creates gaps for others to move into. The change in the last 2 games is that we've got people into the box with him far quicker than we had been and we've looked better for it, unfortunately it's coincided with some iffy defending which means we've taken 1 point when we really should've been looking at 4 or 6.

Wesley looks a bit cumbersome and that alone will always see him draw some criticism but I think a lot of it is way over the top.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 02, 2019, 09:57:12 AM
I think Kodjia has been frightfully unlucky with injuries
He's currently injured from a training ground clash by Nakamba where Jimmy now has to wear a protective mask.
I think he has enough skills to cope in the big league and would be a welcome choice up front .
Both he and Davis are out of contract come season end so they could be performing for a new deal .
Would be interested to see how Kodjia would get on in matches has he does have some ability
In a division that requires high energy, effort and teamwork I'd say Kodjia is a complete dud; even without his recent injuries.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 02, 2019, 09:58:00 AM
Wesley looks a bit cumbersome and that alone will always see him draw some criticism but I think a lot of it is way over the top.
This might be because of the inconsistency in his leg-length ....
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 02, 2019, 10:07:28 AM

Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.

Neither of the Burnley goals had anything to do with Wesley whatsoever, and the game before was aginst ten men for 45 minutes.  He scored in that of course, but did nothing much else of use for the rest of the match.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 02, 2019, 11:08:39 AM

Wesley does give us a focal point, he's just not doing it as consistently as we would like. Let's not forget though that we've scored 4 in the last 2 matches, if we can keep that up then I'd say that complaining about the attack is unfair.

Neither of the Burnley goals had anything to do with Wesley whatsoever, and the game before was aginst ten men for 45 minutes.  He scored in that of course, but did nothing much else of use for the rest of the match.

I never said he had anything to do with the goals though, I was just pointing out that Wesley's performances in those 2 games didn't lose us the games or stop us from scoring goals, so right now I'm happy for him to continue to adapt. I thought he played well for about half an hour of the arsenal game but he let Sokratis bully him a bit too much. On Saturday he wasn't in the game very much but they did often have 2 defenders close to him which was creating space elsewhere.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2019, 03:02:21 PM
I’d like to see him “rested” at the weekend. Take a bit of the pressure off him too. Put Kodjia in and just play a different way.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: villa for life on October 02, 2019, 03:12:33 PM
Surely Davis must be given his chance before Kodjia.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 02, 2019, 03:17:11 PM
Surely Davis must be given his chance before Kodjia.

Agree.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 02, 2019, 03:41:05 PM
I’d like to see him “rested” at the weekend. Take a bit of the pressure off him too. Put Kodjia in and just play a different way.
I refer to my comment above re Kodjia.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 02, 2019, 04:51:08 PM
Surely Davis must be given his chance before Kodjia.
just shows how woefully short of quality we are up front. It's the only real negative I have about the club at the moment.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: itbrvilla on October 02, 2019, 04:58:36 PM
It's a shame as he was the best player on the pitch verses Everton. They couldn't handle him. Thought he may have adapted better and learned from the decisions against him but some reason he looks in effective. He seems to play better with the ball on the ground.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 02, 2019, 06:18:40 PM
Wesley is joint 3rd for most fouls in league 14 fouls he's done the season.
I'm still left wondering on these background checks Deano says he does on players
Suspect tempremant and no one be surprised if he gets sent off this season.
Heard the rumors about Alfred Morelos of Rangers . Well he's a complete ill disciplined so and so with a suspect tempremant so not sure what's going on with this scouting of forwards
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2019, 07:39:42 PM
How do you fathom a suspect temperament?

He needs to be putting himself about more, not less. He should be knocking centre halves around like wrag dolls. It will come with time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 02, 2019, 08:19:09 PM
How do you fathom a suspect temperament?

Not so sure I would describe it that clearly, but I see what he means - his body language is awful (throwing hands up in the air) and opts to hit the deck far too often, which is temperament-related.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2019, 09:43:27 PM
He looks sulky when it's not going his way or at least goes into his shell. But he seems to be suggesting he has a violent temperament and is a dirty player.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luffbralion on October 02, 2019, 10:12:50 PM
In the Man U v Arsenal bore draw on Monday the "experts" were discussing Pepe, who has made an indifferent start, and mentioned the difficulty of acclimatising to a new team, league and culture. We have really thrown Wesley into the deep end rather than easing him in gently. I'm still hopeful he will come good with the right management and coaching.
After the above discussion I thought I'd have a look on Who Scored to see how strikers transferred into the Premiership this summer for roughly similar fees to our Wes and the figures show others are taking their time to adapt (even those with some prior experience of this league).

Wesley    8 games     2 goals   Rating:   6.71
Perez      5 (+ 1 sub) 0 goals                6.63 
Joelinton 7                1 goal                 6.60
McBurnie 4 (+3)        1 goal                 6.58
Maupay   5 (+2)        2                        6.53
Adams    6                0                        6.42
Kean       2 (+5)        0                        6.34

In short, Wes seems at the moment to be as effective as other strikers in that bracket (plus the poor bloke who plays for Newcastle).     
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: The_ads on October 02, 2019, 10:20:42 PM
It’s the lack of effort that annoys me.  I could accept Wesley scoring 7 goals as long as he put himself about and let centre halves know they were in a game.  He’s too easy to play against and I reckon I could mark him at the moment. His performance and demeanour v Burnley was close to the worst I’ve seen from a centre forward at the Villa, and despite a lovely finish the week before, he was mostly bad v Arsenal. He is 6ft 3 and powerful yet doesn’t seem able to make the ball stick. I obviously hope he comes good but what I’ve seen so far has been unimpressive.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: The_ads on October 02, 2019, 10:25:21 PM
Is it ok now to say Hogan and Tonev weren’t very good?

Go on, I'll let you.  I raise you one Juan Pablo Angel. 1 goal in his first 9 appearances.

Moving country, new league, coming into an established experienced premier league team.


Angel looked the part from day 1. You could tell he had ability both with the ball at his feet and in the air. Bar the Everton game Wesley has looked really average, he spends most of the game either on his arse or throwing his toys out the pram.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2019, 10:54:37 PM
Angel was miles off the pace until the following season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 03, 2019, 12:37:53 AM
Not sure when I compared him to Angel, oh yeh I did not.
The problems in that Villa team was not Angel.
One of the problems in this Villa team is Wesley, sure keep defending him like  “ I am sure there is a player in there “  Tonev bollocks. When there obviously wasn’t.
It’s the most difficult position in football particularly as a lone forward.
He is not up to it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on October 03, 2019, 12:49:28 AM
Angel sure was a problem when he wasn't scoring, wasn't contributing and was something of a running joke for the rest of the football world. It took him time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 03, 2019, 07:11:11 AM
It took him him a very long time.

Interesting the stats above showing Wesley in the same company as his contemporaries with similar stats. Finding his Everton form more consistently will take time, but we could help by playing to his strengths a bit more.

I'm not sure what the Tonev comparisons are for.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 03, 2019, 11:41:54 AM
How do you fathom a suspect temperament?

Not so sure I would describe it that clearly, but I see what he means - his body language is awful (throwing hands up in the air) and opts to hit the deck far too often, which is temperament-related.

That's what I getting at.
But I could see him getting physical as have read suggestions on forums  hes more elbows than goals
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 03, 2019, 12:00:52 PM
Finding his Everton form more consistently will take time, but we could help by playing to his strengths a bit more.

This times infinity. When we bought him we were all well aware his heading was not great yet we insist on hoofing the ball up to him with the expectation he holds the ball up. In reality we're just playing into the opposition's hands. It's little surprise the ball comes straight back.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rigadon on October 03, 2019, 12:27:50 PM
The 'problem' with Wesley is that he's still young and I think a year off being something like the finished article.  And that's why we were able to sign him (and not somebody more established in the premier league).  So, I think we just need to accept that he will be hit and miss this season.  If there is a criticism it's that the club went into our first season back up here with a coupe of kids and a crock up front.  Maybe they tried to sign somebody else and it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: exigo on October 03, 2019, 01:33:53 PM
Finding his Everton form more consistently will take time, but we could help by playing to his strengths a bit more.

This times infinity. When we bought him we were all well aware his heading was not great yet we insist on hoofing the ball up to him with the expectation he holds the ball up. In reality we're just playing into the opposition's hands. It's little surprise the ball comes straight back.

Exactly this. The first ball played into Davis after he came on was played into his feet, and it stuck. Seemed madness that we hadn't tried this in the previous hour with Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 03, 2019, 03:24:11 PM
The 'problem' with Wesley is that he's still young and I think a year off being something like the finished article.  And that's why we were able to sign him (and not somebody more established in the premier league).  So, I think we just need to accept that he will be hit and miss this season.  If there is a criticism it's that the club went into our first season back up here with a coupe of kids and a crock up front.  Maybe they tried to sign somebody else and it didn't happen.

Yes, the issue isn't with Wesley as such, even though I think he's mostly been quite poor.  The issue is that we went into the season with the attacking options we did.  It didn't look like being good enough, and so it is proving.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 03, 2019, 03:58:46 PM
I'm not sure we've been playing that many high balls to Wesley.

Even when it is played to his feet, the defender often eases him off the ball, usually resulting in him falling over and complaining. He doesn't seem to be able to shield it consistently.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 03, 2019, 07:08:09 PM
Finding his Everton form more consistently will take time, but we could help by playing to his strengths a bit more.


This times infinity. When we bought him we were all well aware his heading was not great yet we insist on hoofing the ball up to him with the expectation he holds the ball up. In reality we're just playing into the opposition's hands. It's little surprise the ball comes straight back.

Exactly this. The first ball played into Davis after he came on was played into his feet, and it stuck. Seemed madness that we hadn't tried this in the previous hour with Wesley.
Agreed. The criticism he's getting seems very premature.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 03, 2019, 08:29:01 PM
The criticism is current , fair and accurate and based on what people have seen on his villa performances .
Dean Smith said he was sloppy in the last game .
Wesley has openly admitted to Smith that he was poor
The good thing hearing Dean Smith say that Wesley has shown a reaction in training
It's also noted that clips of Wesley hold up play and his performance was discussed with Smith and it's expected for him to play better.

One thing that was apparent Dean Smith hasn't especially referred to Wesley as being a scorer of goals.
He's never said he's a player who scores goals like he said about Abraham. Now that's quite telling
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 03, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
You described him as hop along. Sounds really fair.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2019, 09:34:31 PM
As was posted he's done well at times and not so well others, that he himself has singled out the Burnley match as a poor performance shows that and shows that he's aware he needs to do more. As I said a couple of days ago his problem is that he needs to be more consistent, that's fair criticism, calling him hop-along and accusing him of having an attitude problem isn't.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on October 03, 2019, 09:39:43 PM
Calling him 'hop along' is disgraceful.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: algy on October 04, 2019, 07:01:10 AM
I'd give him more time before passing judgement. It's not helped that he's been brought in to replace Tammy, who looks the part at Chelsea (so probably a £60-90m bracket striker).

From the stats it doesn't look like he's doing particularly badly. I know they don't tell the whole story, but the other things - playing to his strengths and whatnot - will come with time & good coaching. As others have said, Angel was (imo) a bit underwhelming for the first year or so. I'd not be surprised if it took Wes a while to settle in.

Not sure who this other striker we should've bought is though. It does for the world look like £20m gets you an (at this stage) 1 in 4 striker at best. People have to remember we're the weakest newly promoted team and needed to spend money in nearly every area of the pitch. If another striker wasn't available without getting our pants pulled down, why buy them? We need a reputation as shrewd operators, not some gang who'd buy a sack of spuds for £50 if it said "Neymar's Organic Farm" on the side.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on October 04, 2019, 07:55:30 AM
He reminds me of Savo when he first came.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 04, 2019, 07:58:43 AM
The criticism is current , fair and accurate and based on what people have seen on his villa performances .
The criticism doesn't seem to reflect the fact that delivery to him has often been inadequate, footy. Also, having watched him in 5 of his premier league games so far, I'd not criticise his effort; Spurs aside.
Anyway , it's for him to prove his worth, hopefully starting tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 04, 2019, 08:44:05 AM
He told Smith he didn't play well against Burnley before Smith had the opportunity to tell him the same.

Let's hope he's up for giving Grant Hanley the run about tomorrow and we play the ball into feet for him
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: in exile on October 04, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
Calling him 'hop along' is disgraceful.

Agreed.
Who called it him? I can't seem to find it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 04, 2019, 09:59:45 AM
'Hop along' is awful. No need for it, leave it out.

However, the cruelty of some individuals doesn't mean Wesley's performances haven't been crap, by and large.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 04, 2019, 10:39:37 AM
People need to focus on the real issue here . Wesley and opinions and views on him and his football ability. Not views and opinions of others posting views and observation.
People will always see and say things that others want to contend. They all judge things through own perspective.

He's been sloppy and we expect him to get better

If he was putting a shift i would  call him 'run around Wesley' and not the once referenced hop along. He should give a showing against a weak Norwich defence tommorow . They have conceded every match and one of the weaker teams defensively.
So it's not inconceivable he'll have a goal and even a good match.
It's the situations in matches where he needs to hold the ball, contest , press and compete for the ball where he is raising concerns.
There are matches where he needs to contribute far more to team play and if he doesn't do that he puts added pressure on team mates.

 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 04, 2019, 10:45:15 AM
Calling him 'hop along' is disgraceful.

Agreed.
Who called it him? I can't seem to find it

I once referenced him as this . I won't call him hop along again but let's not distract from the issue .
I will call him sub standard and sloppy and  hoping for improvement against a weak Norwich defence.
So I think we can all expect a better match.
It's when he does not add an outlet through his lack of movement probably away to man city or potential for some bumble performance against Dunk and Duffy v Brighton that could be most irksome to all of us !

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 04, 2019, 10:48:15 AM
You described him as hop along. Sounds really fair.
Yeah ride along Wesley would be fair
As he riding off the team at the moment .
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 04, 2019, 11:05:38 AM
Oh dear, it's possibly better to back off something daft then to double down on it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on October 04, 2019, 12:27:38 PM
People need to focus on the real issue here . Wesley and opinions and views on him and his football ability. Not views and opinions of others posting views and observation.
People will always see and say things that others want to contend. They all judge things through own perspective.

He's been sloppy and we expect him to get better

If he was putting a shift i would  call him 'run around Wesley' and not the once referenced hop along. He should give a showing against a weak Norwich defence tommorow . They have conceded every match and one of the weaker teams defensively.
So it's not inconceivable he'll have a goal and even a good match.
It's the situations in matches where he needs to hold the ball, contest , press and compete for the ball where he is raising concerns.
There are matches where he needs to contribute far more to team play and if he doesn't do that he puts added pressure on team mates.

Stop digging.

Amd what on earth does the first bit actually mean? Focus on views not views of views? Or do you mean we should all ignore what each other post?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 04, 2019, 12:45:01 PM
Let's all move along now as we all want big Wes to succeed !
Every chance of scoring tommorow given right service
Every chance of him competing against the Norwich back line as they have conceded 30 headed chances this season
The most in the premier league!
Use your head Wesley ! And yourll be fine for chances and contribution v Norwich 
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 04, 2019, 12:56:17 PM
People need to focus on the real issue here . Wesley and opinions and views on him and his football ability. Not views and opinions of others posting views and observation.
People will always see and say things that others want to contend. They all judge things through own perspective.

He's been sloppy and we expect him to get better

If he was putting a shift i would  call him 'run around Wesley' and not the once referenced hop along. He should give a showing against a weak Norwich defence tommorow . They have conceded every match and one of the weaker teams defensively.
So it's not inconceivable he'll have a goal and even a good match.
It's the situations in matches where he needs to hold the ball, contest , press and compete for the ball where he is raising concerns.
There are matches where he needs to contribute far more to team play and if he doesn't do that he puts added pressure on team mates.

Stop digging.

Amd what on earth does the first bit actually mean? Focus on views not views of views? Or do you mean we should all ignore what each other post?

It means we can't be responsible for how anothers interpretation or understanding of matters are.
And therefore that issue isn't the debate and isn't really necessary for comment .
In my view
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on October 05, 2019, 03:15:47 PM
He's shit.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 05, 2019, 03:30:55 PM
Why the hell are we persevering with him?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on October 05, 2019, 03:31:38 PM
1 in 2 and really he needs dropping.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on October 05, 2019, 03:55:22 PM
Saltiness to one side...

Such a funny player. A real nuisance today, back to Everton game level that half. Should have headed the first all day long but he’s got the control to get it down in a tight area and slot it so who cares?

Hope he gets another, seems massive Sven type B/confidence player. Shame about the missed pen but wasn’t a bad effort.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Caiphus on October 05, 2019, 04:19:44 PM
I like the shift he has been putting in to pressure Norwich's defenders, and the chasing he has done into the defensive half. Keep up this work rate and his ability should come through.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on October 05, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
We need to criticise him more often because he seems to respond positively to it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 05, 2019, 05:16:36 PM
What was a bit sad today was when we scored he didn’t have the confidence to go fucking mental due to VAR
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Deano's Mullet on October 05, 2019, 05:22:02 PM
One in two strike rate. Some Villa strikers would have killed for that ratio. If that were to carry on he would finish with nineteen league goals.......
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 05, 2019, 05:23:28 PM
Same number of goals as Salah.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: London Villan on October 05, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
He is 22 and learning.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 05, 2019, 06:16:44 PM
Good effort today Wes !
As well as scoring twice he was doing a lot of tracking and pressing and running back . Had a lot more movement in trying to get the ball back even if sometimes unsuccessful or getting his foot stepped in and moaning.
Really annoyed so he just be even more so he didn't nail the penalty and rebound and I did notice the free flowing attacks 2nd half were mainly passing him by and he was not involved if  any of this attack dynamics . Offered up the pass for Douglas Luiz and did his occupying of defenders. And as say 2nd half he got involved in going after the ball which can't be any fairer so good , but expected , work there.

Hopefully he can push on.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on October 05, 2019, 06:26:34 PM
At the moment he seems to over-respond a bit too peaks and troughs in confidence. Hopefully over time, with a few more peaks in him, he'll learn how to play like that over a number of games no matter the circumstances.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villafirst on October 05, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
Still learning in this League. 4 goals in 8 games is impressive. People need to be patient.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave shelley on October 05, 2019, 06:47:11 PM
I enjoyed just how nonchalant he seemed scoring his second goal and his smile of celebration after.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2019, 08:44:38 PM
At the moment he seems to over-respond a bit too peaks and troughs in confidence. Hopefully over time, with a few more peaks in him, he'll learn how to play like that over a number of games no matter the circumstances.

Completely agree, this is what I've been getting at saying he's needs consistency. I've seen enough to know he can become a very good player, any coach will look and see loads to work with, but it's going to be frustrating for a while because he'll have bad games, so long as it's offset by games like today and we're scoring with any kind of regularity then I'm happy for him to learn on the job.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2019, 08:49:26 PM
Much better today (obviously!).  His second goal was almost identical to his goal against Arsenal, ie a cool flick past the keeper from a cross, inside the 6 yard box, so it looks like they've been working on that in training.  I could tell he was going to miss the penalty the moment he started his run up though, far too dithery and unsure.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 05, 2019, 09:38:04 PM
I could tell he was going to miss the penalty the moment he started his run up though, far too dithery and unsure.

Appreciate it was pre season, but his run up was the same against Walsall and he stuck it in the top corner.
Have only the one today once but, while it certainly wasn’t a perfect penalty, it looked like quite a good save to me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on October 05, 2019, 11:31:37 PM
Excellent today, his hold up play was back to his best. I like the fact he scored an identical goal as too against Arsenal, something we have clearly been working on (we also have done the cut back to Grealish on numerous occasions too).

My only criticism today is the laid back run up to the pen, it never looked confident. Compare to Van Aanholts aggressive penalty run up for Palace today, you could tell he was scoring all day. Anyway this is a minor complaint in an otherwise excellent performance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 06, 2019, 12:02:27 AM
Well done Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OzVilla on October 06, 2019, 12:14:19 AM
Took some stick last week but looked a different player this. Needs to be at this level, helped that they’re back 4 was poor but he did his job, well done Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 06, 2019, 12:16:28 AM
He was exactly what you want your centre forward to be, an absolute bully made of velcro.

The ball stuck to him and he knocked their centre halves from pillar to post. The ball stuck and our midfield got close and advanced. We flooded into gaps and created havoc.

Brilliant and simple centre forward play.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 06, 2019, 12:23:55 AM
What’s the words to Wesley’s on fire song
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 06, 2019, 12:32:50 AM
The problem with a pure confidence player is that it's not their own confidence that matters but the confidence of the team too. If the overall team performance is nervous and uncertain then that's how Wesley will perform in front of goal.

It's why Tammy was so valuable last season - even when the team was plodding/playing poorly, he always had the confidence to put the ball in the net when the opportunity arose.

Wesley needs the people behind him to keep their chins up when the chips are down. I don't for a second think he's a bad player, but he is perhaps - at the moment - a fragile one psychologically, who will only play to his full ability when the team is on fire.

Great performance today. But see above.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on October 06, 2019, 12:52:06 AM
It was two goals and a star turn in a thumping win at Norwich (League cup) that set fire to Christian Benteke in a Villa shirt. Hopefully Big Wes is on his way too now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 06, 2019, 12:56:45 AM
Great to see a young lad who’s had a hard time in the past ( and I don’t just mean with some of our fans ! ) getting some of the credit he deserves. We’ve not had many 1:2  goal to game ratio forwards , it’s early days but I like the lad
👍
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JD on October 06, 2019, 05:49:23 AM
I like bid Wes. Only young and in a new country. He will only get better. It must be difficult being the main striker for a team when you are new to the league and so young.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithe on October 06, 2019, 08:54:20 AM
On replay it looked a very good save from the penalty, the follow up looked a bad miss.

The thinking behind that kind of penalty is that he’s waiting for the keeper to commit himself before trying to put it in the opposite side.

The downside is you look a right twat when he doesn’t.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: f1sav on October 06, 2019, 09:50:53 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/v4cY0dT/Screenshot-20191006-094953.png) (https://ibb.co/v4cY0dT)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: four fornicholl on October 06, 2019, 10:02:04 AM
I imagine his style of playing, "almost like he can't be arsed" , influences how he is perceived by some. He'll do for me.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: exigo on October 06, 2019, 10:32:32 AM
What’s the words to Wesley’s on fire song

Your defence is terrified, 'cos Wesley's on fire
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 07, 2019, 08:51:04 AM
Wesley said: “On Saturday we showed what Aston Villa are all about. We have to continue like this, if we do we will win plenty of games.

"The last game I didn't play well so I had to work very hard. But on Saturday I scored two goals, so I'm happy.

“Aston Villa are a great team with big history. When I came here it was to help Aston Villa stay (in the Premier League). I have to continue like this in every game.”

 "I missed the penalty but the next one, I will score. This is my first penalty in the Premier League, I can't be disappointed. The next one I will put inside.”

Jack Grealish, said: “I am so happy for him.

“Last week he was getting a bit of stick but what has he got now, four goals and one assist? That isn’t a bad start for a 22-year-old who had just come into the Premier League."

He has worked so hard all this week. It would have been nice for him to get his hat-trick but I think it shows someone’s character in how they bounce back from disappointment.

“He could have let his head drop when he missed the penalty but he didn’t.

“I told him at half-time: ‘This is the best I have ever seen you play, so don’t get disheartened. You missed a penalty, who cares? Go and get another one.’ Though he didn’t get another one he got another assist and I thought he was brilliant.”
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 07, 2019, 11:00:04 AM
He had a good game and I'm delighted for him.  I'm still not absolutely convinced by him to be honest, but with that work rate he's clearly busting a gut to make it happen and that's a great sign.

I would say the defending for both his goals was uttrerly awful, he was left so open on the second it was truly amazing - if you watch it again he just makes a steady run in an arrow straight line all the way from the centre circle to the 6 yard box and no one picks him up.  But he stuck them in and absolutely desrves the credit he's getting.  Really hope he keeps it up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: rooboy316 on October 07, 2019, 11:02:53 AM
I would say the defending for both his goals was uttrerly awful, he was left so open on the second it was truly amazing - if you watch it again he just makes a steady run in an arrow straight line all the way from the centre circle to the 6 yard box and no one picks him up.  But he stuck them in and absolutely desrves the credit he's getting.  Really hope he keeps it up.

He seemed as suprised as anyone that the ball for the first one actually got through to him. Did well to control and finish it, mind.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 07, 2019, 11:04:26 AM
I would say the defending for both his goals was uttrerly awful, he was left so open on the second it was truly amazing - if you watch it again he just makes a steady run in an arrow straight line all the way from the centre circle to the 6 yard box and no one picks him up.  But he stuck them in and absolutely desrves the credit he's getting.  Really hope he keeps it up.

He seemed as suprised as anyone that the ball for the first one actually got through to him. Did well to control and finish it, mind.
Yeah absolutely.  He did well to finish it but no way should a defence allow you that much time at this level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 07, 2019, 03:10:17 PM
He had a good game and I'm delighted for him.  I'm still not absolutely convinced by him to be honest, but with that work rate he's clearly busting a gut to make it happen and that's a great sign.

I would say the defending for both his goals was uttrerly awful, he was left so open on the second it was truly amazing - if you watch it again he just makes a steady run in an arrow straight line all the way from the centre circle to the 6 yard box and no one picks him up.  But he stuck them in and absolutely desrves the credit he's getting.  Really hope he keeps it up.
Good post, Chris; that's how I saw it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 07, 2019, 03:34:13 PM
Shame he didnt get the hatrick but I thought it was quite a good save to be honest ,

4 in 8 is a great start .   Keep it up Wes , you will only get better.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 07, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
He had a good game and I'm delighted for him.  I'm still not absolutely convinced by him to be honest, but with that work rate he's clearly busting a gut to make it happen and that's a great sign.

I would say the defending for both his goals was uttrerly awful, he was left so open on the second it was truly amazing - if you watch it again he just makes a steady run in an arrow straight line all the way from the centre circle to the 6 yard box and no one picks him up.  But he stuck them in and absolutely desrves the credit he's getting.  Really hope he keeps it up.
Good post, Chris; that's how I saw it.

I don't disagree with this.

To play devil's advocate, though, the goals demonstrated that he can do in the Premier League what Scott Hogan couldn't do at Championship level, which is be in the right place at the right time and put the ball past the keeper.

I do think his overall game still leaves a bit to be desired but I hope he'll continue to work hard and hopefully he'll keep improving.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dr Butler on October 07, 2019, 04:01:33 PM
also several times during the game when the ball was lost he started sprinting back to get it which was warmly appreciated by myself and all those around me

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 07, 2019, 05:24:48 PM
And to be fair to him in second half  he at least 3 times cleared corners with his head being deployed as effective defender. Another time on him clearing  he did take a major swing which nearly resulted in an own goal but I don't think many corners got past him if he was anywhere near them and cleared every occasion.
The miskick clearance resulted in another corner which he made amends and headed away.
So that sort of contribution can't go unnoticed
Well played there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on October 07, 2019, 07:59:28 PM
He also made a great run to the left for Jack's goal which pulled the centre half out of the way.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on October 07, 2019, 10:11:28 PM
I hope he learns from the penalty as way too casual.  I know that's the way he tends to take them, with a slow run up and a well placed (usually) kick.  This time, he placed it at a comfortable height but the one he scored at Walsall was excellent.  I hope the next one comes quickly so he can make amends. Two nice finishes though, 4 in 8 is a great start.  Also great that goals are coming throughout the team.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on October 07, 2019, 10:12:22 PM
I thought it was more a good save then a bad penalty. It's pretty close to the corner, I reckon 90% of the time that would have gone in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nastylee on October 07, 2019, 10:21:47 PM
If he'd just do a Walsall every time then he'd be the next Le Tissier.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 07, 2019, 10:31:58 PM
I thought it was more a good save then a bad penalty. It's pretty close to the corner, I reckon 90% of the time that would have gone in.

I agree, sometimes keepers will guess the right way and save them, I thought the keeper did really well on the follow-up as well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nastylee on October 07, 2019, 10:33:18 PM
If he'd gone with his left he'd have probably scored the rebound. The split second to open his body up for the right foot was enough for the keeper.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 08, 2019, 11:03:06 AM
If he'd just do a Walsall every time then he'd be the next Le Tissier.

For players who took 10 or more pens
Yaya Toure is the best ever premier league penalty taker with 100% record 11/11 and 16 /16 overall

Juan Pablo Angel is the worst taker of penalties in premier league he only scored 50%
5 out of 10
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 08, 2019, 11:06:35 AM
If he'd just do a Walsall every time then he'd be the next Le Tissier.

For players who took 10 or more pens
Yaya Toure is the best ever premier league penalty taker with 100% record 11/11 and 16 /16 overall

Juan Pablo Angel is the worst taker of penalties in premier league he only scored 50%
5 out of 10


didn't he miss 2 in one game against Norwich ??
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: in exile on October 08, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
The more he posts the more he reminds me of someone
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 08, 2019, 11:13:54 AM
If he'd just do a Walsall every time then he'd be the next Le Tissier.

For players who took 10 or more pens
Yaya Toure is the best ever premier league penalty taker with 100% record 11/11 and 16 /16 overall

Juan Pablo Angel is the worst taker of penalties in premier league he only scored 50%
5 out of 10


didn't he miss 2 in one game against Norwich ??

JPA was the first Premier League player to miss twice in one match. Both his penalties saved by Van der Sar 2005. That was versus Fulham
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on October 08, 2019, 01:50:43 PM
The more he posts the more he reminds me of someone

Yeah, I thought so too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 09, 2019, 01:53:45 PM
The more he posts the more he reminds me of someone

Yeah, I thought so too.
Oh look what we have here !
How did this escape me !
One more and you have a gang !

Live and let eh old fellas ! Let's just see others as individuals.
1st world war is over so what's the issue with handling conscientious objectors!
If I don't conform to what you want to hear deal with it rather than trying to get at me .
Thank you and please leave mentioning me the heck alone !
I have no issue with youse so please stop
Admin know the deal.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 09, 2019, 03:31:26 PM
Jesus Christ, is there ever any end to your nonsensical yap?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 09, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'm not convinced this is anything more than an acid flashback.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Richard E on October 09, 2019, 03:50:16 PM
The more he posts the more he reminds me of someone

Yeah, I thought so too.
Oh look what we have here !
How did this escape me !
One more and you have a gang !

Live and let eh old fellas ! Let's just see others as individuals.
1st world war is over so what's the issue with handling conscientious objectors!
If I don't conform to what you want to hear deal with it rather than trying to get at me .
Thank you and please leave mentioning me the heck alone !
I have no issue with youse so please stop
Admin know the deal.



Are you conscientiously objecting to Wesley?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 09, 2019, 04:06:46 PM
"Admin know the deal"

If this is a proper medical issue etc then fair play - everyone should back off - or is it they know you are off your tits on drugs?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 09, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
I'm going on an international period break
Thank you.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 09, 2019, 04:22:14 PM
Flouncers gonna flounce.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2019, 01:19:34 PM
I'm going on an international period break
Thank you.

What name are you coming back as?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 10, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
"Admin know the deal"

If this is a proper medical issue etc then fair play - everyone should back off - or is it they know you are off your tits on drugs?

Was it something I said?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2019, 12:41:06 PM
I'm going on an international period break
Thank you.

Blood in the Balkans.

Sponsored by Always with Wings.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 11, 2019, 01:04:22 PM
I'm going on an international period break
Thank you.
C you next Thursday.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: in exile on October 11, 2019, 02:28:37 PM
Whoops, wrong thread
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LeeB on October 11, 2019, 05:23:16 PM
The more he posts the more he reminds me of someone

Yeah, I thought so too.
Oh look what we have here !
How did this escape me !
One more and you have a gang !

Live and let eh old fellas ! Let's just see others as individuals.
1st world war is over so what's the issue with handling conscientious objectors!
If I don't conform to what you want to hear deal with it rather than trying to get at me .
Thank you and please leave mentioning me the heck alone !
I have no issue with youse so please stop
Admin know the deal.



Well, I was right then.

I always believed posting under various usernames was banned? Is there some kind of TUI exemption?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 13, 2019, 09:16:00 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/RQqmK25/Screenshot-20191013-211212-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVz8gNL)

Big Wes just posted this on his Instagram. For a guy who barely spoke English a few months ago, I'm impressed. Love that sentiment too. Fair play.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dogtanian on October 13, 2019, 09:21:24 PM
Haha.  Love that.

Nice to see he’s enjoying himself and seeing the sights in a new country too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bren'd on October 13, 2019, 09:24:01 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/RQqmK25/Screenshot-20191013-211212-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVz8gNL)

Big Wes just posted this on his Instagram. For a guy who barely spoke English a few months ago, I'm impressed. Love that sentiment too. Fair play.

Royal family members came to see him first.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: thick_mike on October 13, 2019, 09:24:17 PM
That’s a lovely photo. I always remind my sons when we pop into London that we are surrounded by people that are having the holiday of a lifetime that they have paid thousands of pounds for.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2019, 11:57:17 PM
That’s a lovely photo. I always remind my sons when we pop into London that we are surrounded by people that are having the holiday of a lifetime that they have paid thousands of pounds for.

Someone doesn't use the Piccadilly line to get to work!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: UK Redsox on October 14, 2019, 09:31:45 AM
That’s a lovely photo. I always remind my sons when we pop into London that we are surrounded by people that are having the holiday of a lifetime that they have paid thousands of pounds for.

Someone doesn't use the Piccadilly line to get to work!

What's with the Victoria Line at the moment? Even on a cool day, it's like a sauna on that part of the Tube
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Smithy on October 14, 2019, 11:16:15 AM
That’s a lovely photo. I always remind my sons when we pop into London that we are surrounded by people that are having the holiday of a lifetime that they have paid thousands of pounds for.

Someone doesn't use the Piccadilly line to get to work!

What's with the Victoria Line at the moment? Even on a cool day, it's like a sauna on that part of the Tube

Read an article recently about the tube, and the reason it's so warm is that the earth around the tunnels is now 'saturated' with heat.  It's gradually warmed up over the years, little by little, and is now at a point where it doesn't absorb ANY heat from the tunnel itself and acts like insulation. Whereas previously the colder earth absorbed heat from the tunnel cooling it down. Apparently thirty years ago it was quite cool down there, mainly due to the earth around the tunnels being cold.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dogtanian on October 14, 2019, 11:25:30 AM
That’s a lovely photo. I always remind my sons when we pop into London that we are surrounded by people that are having the holiday of a lifetime that they have paid thousands of pounds for.

Someone doesn't use the Piccadilly line to get to work!

What's with the Victoria Line at the moment? Even on a cool day, it's like a sauna on that part of the Tube

Read an article recently about the tube, and the reason it's so warm is that the earth around the tunnels is now 'saturated' with heat.  It's gradually warmed up over the years, little by little, and is now at a point where it doesn't absorb ANY heat from the tunnel itself and acts like insulation. Whereas previously the colder earth absorbed heat from the tunnel cooling it down. Apparently thirty years ago it was quite cool down there, mainly due to the earth around the tunnels being cold.

The company I work for supplies materials to TFL to be used in the tube and we now have to supply tropical grade material due to the heat down there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2019, 10:56:39 AM
From a centre forward to tropical grade material for the tube.

Long live H&V.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dogtanian on October 15, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
Let’s hope Wesley doesn’t pop on to see what we are saying about him.  I can imagine google translate would be giving him some very confusing feedback.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 10:47:12 PM
Lovely picture of him as you say enjoying himself. Let’s face it we’re far more likely to be getting the best out of our Wesley if he’s enjoying his time here 👍
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: timeoutbigbar on October 18, 2019, 12:52:25 PM
Interview on Sky Sports, not sure if it's been posted before, apologies if it has.  His English is really pretty good already.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11837963/aston-villas-wesley-how-being-a-dad-at-14-motivated-me
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 18, 2019, 12:56:04 PM
Interview on Sky Sports, not sure if it's been posted before, apologies if it has.  His English is really pretty good already.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11837963/aston-villas-wesley-how-being-a-dad-at-14-motivated-me

Two kids by the age of 16?  Blimey, didn't realise he was from Wigan.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on October 18, 2019, 01:17:20 PM
He's never been a wanker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Everetteg on October 18, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
What's wrong with Wigan? Apart from the obvious. haha
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Edvard Remberg on October 18, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
Quick learner - his English is very good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2019, 01:43:00 PM
Quick learner - his English is very good.

I'd imagine he's been communicating in English since his time in Slovakia(?)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Edvard Remberg on October 18, 2019, 01:44:56 PM
Quick learner - his English is very good.

I'd imagine he's been communicating in English since his time in Slovakia(?)
That makes sense
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 18, 2019, 04:06:08 PM
What's going on with his right ear?

First Benteke and his midget ears and now Wesley's mismatching lug holes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 18, 2019, 05:24:28 PM
Dean Smith was joking that he said Wesley post at the palace was cheesey!
But he had difficulty explaining cheesey in Portuguese !
Good to see Wes enjoying the sites of London and giving great humour!
As we know Dean Smith enjoys the growth and developmeny of players. Project Wesley will be looking to roar once again come 3pm tommorow!
And the way Man City defence is playing next week he can enjoy himself against Otamendi and Fernandio!

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on October 19, 2019, 08:11:25 PM
Predictably kept quiet but some good old fashioned defenders today. No shame in that.

I think he’s one of those players who’s gonna have games where he plays out of his skin and ones where he doesn’t get going.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 19, 2019, 08:18:08 PM
Predictably kept quiet but some good old fashioned defenders today. No shame in that.

I think he’s one of those players who’s gonna have games where he plays out of his skin and ones where he doesn’t get going.

Very sharp learning curve, but he's not alone
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: London Villan on October 19, 2019, 08:21:46 PM
He’ll have a similar season to savo’s first season. Scores some goals, but played out of the game sometimes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: john e on October 19, 2019, 08:24:07 PM
he seems to play either very well or very poor today was the latter
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: john2710 on October 19, 2019, 08:29:22 PM
He’ll have a similar season to savo’s first season. Scores some goals, but played out of the game sometimes.

I think that's a good & fair assessment, the similarities are definitely there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 19, 2019, 08:32:29 PM
He did OK today, put himself about without looking threatening.  Much better than El Ghazi, who was poor.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 19, 2019, 08:33:16 PM
He's a big softie.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brian green on October 19, 2019, 08:52:27 PM
Quote of the day.

Me (returning from having a piss) Did I miss anything?

My Son   Wesley has got cramp.

Me   Where?

My Son   In his arms.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on October 19, 2019, 09:00:18 PM
He scored two last time out and looked pretty decent. He was pretty poor today though. I'm not going to cheaply rubbish him too much though but there is a bit of inconsistency there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: john2710 on October 19, 2019, 09:16:29 PM
The only header he won today was the one which hit him on the back of the head!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on October 19, 2019, 09:29:16 PM
It’s true. He never ever heads it. Bizarre in a big striker really. He does have, I realised today, an incredibly small head so maybe it’s that. Put that together with the fact that he doesn’t have much of a shot on him and talk about making life hard for yourself.

But he’s got enough goals and good performances in so far, especially adjusting for the fact he’s new to the league.

The Savo comparison is a good one. A strangely limited striker but when he’s on form and playing to his strengths a real handful.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Brassneck on October 19, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
I've noticed with big lads over the years that many of them don't like jumping because they are wary of keeping their balance when they land.  Wesley is definitely in this bracket and his balance is probably impeded by his differing leg lengths.  John Carew he is not so it is pointless ever thinking his heading ability is going to improve.

On a positive note, I did feel that he was more physical today and gave as good as he got on the ground.  He was especially unfortunate to be pulled up early after getting the better of the last man in a 50/50 tussle.

I'm not a fan but feel he is deserving of our support as his effort cannot be faulted.  Who knows - He may prove us wrong and a goal next week will see him back on one in every two games.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on October 19, 2019, 09:39:09 PM
We do whip a lot of high crosses in considering we have precisely zero aerial threat.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: OCD on October 19, 2019, 09:48:50 PM
We do whip a lot of high crosses in considering we have precisely zero aerial threat.

Guilbert couldn't put any crosses in today with any height on them. Apart from Jack's goal, his crossing was otherwise poor. I can't remember any crosses that Targett may have put in. Delivery in general was pretty poor. Even set-pieces we tended to go the other way and have too much height on them.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 19, 2019, 10:08:07 PM
Sounds like a mixed day for him today, still plenty to build on. Terry should bring in Drogba for a couple of days training, at least for winning penalties.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: DB on October 19, 2019, 10:32:29 PM
He was bloody awful.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2019, 04:24:02 AM
He was bloody awful.
Is the right answer.
 Maupay showed what we are missing today
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ian J on October 20, 2019, 07:57:00 AM
It’s all very criticising big Wes, but most of the team was off form yesterday. So far he has done ok for us which for a young lad in a new league ain’t too bad a start to his Villa career.
Another signing probably would have helped with competition and also to give us something different but by the sounds of we tried but wasn’t going to be stitched up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 20, 2019, 12:15:58 PM
The only negative thing I would add is when it's not going his way he loses focus entirely
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2019, 01:11:14 PM
I am not a fan, not quite in the Footy negative fetish camp but his  poor movement and showing for the ball together with his lack of ability in the air is concerning.
He does have some nice touches and has shown finishing ability, maybe he will improve but he is at the moment a weak link.
I do think Davis should get more of a chance.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 20, 2019, 02:36:21 PM
The only negative thing I would add is when it's not going his way he loses focus entirely

I think that’s a fair criticism

It shows in his body language too.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: devilla on October 20, 2019, 02:37:48 PM
No idea why he got cramp in the 70th minute yesterday. Could it because he knew he was having a crap game?

He seems to be a very limited striker and I'm a bit concerned about him. He can't hold the ball up and can't head it. I think there are signs that his positional sense is improving - he made runs to the near post in anticipation of crosses coming to that area yesterday but overall, I don't think he's good enough.

Compare him to Davies when he came on. He showed far more threat than Wesley did in the whole time he was on.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 20, 2019, 02:43:47 PM
No idea why he got cramp in the 70th minute yesterday. Could it because he knew he was having a crap game?

He seems to be a very limited striker and I'm a bit concerned about him. He can't hold the ball up and can't head it. I think there are signs that his positional sense is improving - he made runs to the near post in anticipation of crosses coming to that area yesterday but overall, I don't think he's good enough.

Compare him to Davies when he came on. He showed far more threat than Wesley did in the whole time he was on.

And yet Wesley has got more goals in nine games than Davis has in 40.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2019, 04:05:16 PM
Will there come a time where Wesley has a poor game and it's "just one of those things" instead of being a sign that he: has a bad attitude/isn't good enough/won't make it/isn't as good as Davis/isn't as good as Maupay/or whatever the latest criticism is? He's 22, has played 9 games in the league, and has 4 goals, yes he's got issues with his game but if he's scoring a few goals and making a nuisance of himself (for example in the build up to the Hourihane goal that should never have been disallowed) he's earning the right to game time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 20, 2019, 04:19:26 PM
He's was our big striker signing and with the lack of alternatives we've kind of bet the farm on him coming good, so it's pretty understandable his performances will come under scrutiny.

I remain unconvinced, but still hopeful he'll come good in time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on October 20, 2019, 04:58:49 PM
No idea why he got cramp in the 70th minute yesterday. Could it because he knew he was having a crap game?

He seems to be a very limited striker and I'm a bit concerned about him. He can't hold the ball up and can't head it. I think there are signs that his positional sense is improving - he made runs to the near post in anticipation of crosses coming to that area yesterday but overall, I don't think he's good enough.

Compare him to Davies when he came on. He showed far more threat than Wesley did in the whole time he was on.

And yet Wesley has got more goals in nine games than Davis has in 40.

Poor Keinan gets hit with that stat a lot. How many of those did he start?
He did more in his time yesterday than Wesley did all game. I'm not saying he's a better player but Keinan does deserve a start. Given Man City is a near write-off, Davies will work harder off the ball up there than Wes would. Or at least give him a start in the Wolves Coca Cola game the midweek after.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 20, 2019, 05:16:28 PM
2 goals in 17 league starts and 22 sub appearances in division 2, plus another 5 sub appearances this season in the league.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 20, 2019, 05:24:25 PM
No idea why he got cramp in the 70th minute yesterday. Could it because he knew he was having a crap game?

He seems to be a very limited striker and I'm a bit concerned about him. He can't hold the ball up and can't head it. I think there are signs that his positional sense is improving - he made runs to the near post in anticipation of crosses coming to that area yesterday but overall, I don't think he's good enough.

Compare him to Davies when he came on. He showed far more threat than Wesley did in the whole time he was on.

And yet Wesley has got more goals in nine games than Davis has in 40.

Poor Keinan gets hit with that stat a lot. How many of those did he start?
He did more in his time yesterday than Wesley did all game. I'm not saying he's a better player but Keinan does deserve a start. Given Man City is a near write-off, Davies will work harder off the ball up there than Wes would. Or at least give him a start in the Wolves Coca Cola game the midweek after.


No, he didn't. Wesley played an integral part in our first, created the acre of space that Hourihane and El Ghazi failed to successfully exploit, and got into positions for chances where he really should have done better himself. What did Davies do? Ran around a bit, and was generally as ineffective at holding the ball up as the man he replaced.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: UK Redsox on October 20, 2019, 05:30:04 PM
Wesley isn’t great but Davis is no better.

Hopefully bringing in another striker in the transfer window is being worked on as a priority. Preferably a signing as soon as the window opens.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on October 20, 2019, 08:03:50 PM
It’s all very criticising big Wes, but most of the team was off form yesterday. So far he has done ok for us which for a young lad in a new league ain’t too bad a start to his Villa career.
Another signing probably would have helped with competition and also to give us something different but by the sounds of we tried but wasn’t going to be stitched up.

Im aware Wes is young and has had a reasonable enough start scoring wise for us.

However, I really dont see it at all with him. He is so limited in nearly every facet of his play, a taller Scott Hogan on the evidence of his performances to date with a worse attitude. Most of the games I have seen this season, we have effectively been playing with 10 men with him, exceptions being Everton where he was excellent and Norwich. The comparison between him and Maupay at the weekend was night and day lets be honest. I dread to think how Wes would react to playing up front if we had 10 men for a game.

Hopefully it will click with him but after 2 goals against Norwich you would think his confidence would be flying for Brighton. Instead he was as bad as ever. Davis for me holds up the ball a lot better and deserves more minutes on the pitch.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ian J on October 20, 2019, 09:14:34 PM
It’s all very criticising big Wes, but most of the team was off form yesterday. So far he has done ok for us which for a young lad in a new league ain’t too bad a start to his Villa career.
Another signing probably would have helped with competition and also to give us something different but by the sounds of we tried but wasn’t going to be stitched up.

Im aware Wes is young and has had a reasonable enough start scoring wise for us.

However, I really dont see it at all with him. He is so limited in nearly every facet of his play, a taller Scott Hogan on the evidence of his performances to date with a worse attitude. Most of the games I have seen this season, we have effectively been playing with 10 men with him, exceptions being Everton where he was excellent and Norwich. The comparison between him and Maupay at the weekend was night and day lets be honest. I dread to think how Wes would react to playing up front if we had 10 men for a game.

Hopefully it will click with him but after 2 goals against Norwich you would think his confidence would be flying for Brighton. Instead he was as bad as ever. Davis for me holds up the ball a lot better and deserves more minutes on the pitch.
However he’s put the ball in the net when had to and set up a couple. Russo summer it up, actually the stats summed it up even better.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Edvard Remberg on October 21, 2019, 01:42:27 PM
No idea why he got cramp in the 70th minute yesterday. Could it because he knew he was having a crap game?

He seems to be a very limited striker and I'm a bit concerned about him. He can't hold the ball up and can't head it. I think there are signs that his positional sense is improving - he made runs to the near post in anticipation of crosses coming to that area yesterday but overall, I don't think he's good enough.

Compare him to Davies when he came on. He showed far more threat than Wesley did in the whole time he was on.

And yet Wesley has got more goals in nine games than Davis has in 40.

Poor Keinan gets hit with that stat a lot. How many of those did he start?
He did more in his time yesterday than Wesley did all game. I'm not saying he's a better player but Keinan does deserve a start. Given Man City is a near write-off, Davies will work harder off the ball up there than Wes would. Or at least give him a start in the Wolves Coca Cola game the midweek after.


No, he didn't. Wesley played an integral part in our first, created the acre of space that Hourihane and El Ghazi failed to successfully exploit, and got into positions for chances where he really should have done better himself. What did Davies do? Ran around a bit, and was generally as ineffective at holding the ball up as the man he replaced.
Agreed - tried to see what Davies did better - he had one turn-shot - but beside that nothing more than Wes. And yes, there is a level of bashing - and since he is apparently a player who does better with support, maybe not such a great plan. (yes they do read social media)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 26, 2019, 02:42:27 PM
It’s time Wesley day on the bench for a bit. Give Davis a run out. He’s at least putting himself about is much more mobile and might through his aggression and movement open things up for others like he almost did for McGinn late on. Wes has a lot of growing up to do. A lot of development to come but if he’s not scoring he’s not doing much else to help. There’s no shame in this. He’s a young kid and it’s tough at this level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2019, 02:44:30 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 26, 2019, 02:46:55 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Totally agree with this.

Wesley's problem is that when he's decent, he's decent, but when things are not laid on a plate for him, he might as well not be on the pitch.

Major oversight not to buy a striker over the summer. A must-buy for January.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: GarTomas on October 26, 2019, 02:47:16 PM
I don’t think he had a lot of support today. When we did break it was 3 maybe 4 players maximum getting forward.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: villadelph on October 26, 2019, 02:47:55 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Said the same thing when Wes went off. We’re going to have to buy another £20m striker in January to ensure safety. He just can’t create for himself or get involved in the build up.

He can trap a ball and shield a man.. but that’s pretty much it.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Monty on October 26, 2019, 02:54:29 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Totally agree with this.

Wesley's problem is that when he's decent, he's decent, but when things are not laid on a plate for him, he might as well not be on the pitch.

Major oversight not to buy a striker over the summer. A must-buy for January.

Yep, he's a young player with good qualities who's been forced into the role of top-level main striker before he's quite ready. I think there is a great deal too much harshness about his play sometimes (along the lines of 'he's not perfect now so he'll be shit forever') but it's unfair on him and stupid of us to have thought we could get through the season with no other genuine alternatives
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 26, 2019, 02:57:30 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Said the same thing when Wes went off. We’re going to have to buy another £20m striker in January to ensure safety. He just can’t create for himself or get involved in the build up.

He can trap a ball and shield a man.. but that’s pretty much it.

A couple of wingers would be useful too. Neither Trez or El Ghazi are PL standard.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 26, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
My guess is we just ran out of time and probably a willingness to spend a whole lot more as it relates to why we didn't pull the trigger on Maupay and why we didn't get another forward in. Midfield and defence were clearly the priorities and thought probably was keep things tight, score a few from midfield and see if we can get by to January without the extra investment. Dan has gone on record that he thought Maupay was overpriced and truth is he probably thought that way as he bought him 18 months prior for a couple million. I have no doubt that a forward through purchase or loan is high on the list of priorities for January. Someone to help Wes or to challenge and replace him. Davis might come along by then. Kodjia will likely be sold if he cannot break back in. Lots of changes to come at that position.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: villadelph on October 26, 2019, 03:00:06 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Said the same thing when Wes went off. We’re going to have to buy another £20m striker in January to ensure safety. He just can’t create for himself or get involved in the build up.

He can trap a ball and shield a man.. but that’s pretty much it.

A couple of wingers would be useful too. Neither Trez or El Ghazi are PL standard.

That’s a bit harsh on El Ghazi.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2019, 03:02:29 PM
AEG is averaging a goal or assist approx every 115 mins played so far this season, i'm not sure there's many other wingers doing better than that.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2019, 03:04:57 PM
My guess is we just ran out of time and probably a willingness to spend a whole lot more as it relates to why we didn't pull the trigger on Maupay and why we didn't get another forward in. Midfield and defence were clearly the priorities and thought probably was keep things tight, score a few from midfield and see if we can get by to January without the extra investment. Dan has gone on record that he thought Maupay was overpriced and truth is he probably thought that way as he bought him 18 months prior for a couple million. I have no doubt that a forward through purchase or loan is high on the list of priorities for January. Someone to help Wes or to challenge and replace him. Davis might come along by then. Kodjia will likely be sold if he cannot break back in. Lots of changes to come at that position.

I think you're right in the way the club were thinking, but I reckon they made a big mistake in not getting Maupay in. £16m (the reported fee) isn't that extreme in today's market, and the lad himself said he'd love to play for Smith again.  He'd give us an outlet in games like this, as Wesley just doesn't keep the ball long enough or look attacking, so that we turn over possession again too rapidly.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on October 26, 2019, 03:05:19 PM
AEG is fine, Moraes isn't capable of being the main guy.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 26, 2019, 03:06:41 PM
He held the ball up a couple of times first half, but he has no pace and no ability to go past a man and get a shot away.  I'd give Davis a run for a while, but start planning for a purchase in January now.

Said the same thing when Wes went off. We’re going to have to buy another £20m striker in January to ensure safety. He just can’t create for himself or get involved in the build up.

He can trap a ball and shield a man.. but that’s pretty much it.

A couple of wingers would be useful too. Neither Trez or El Ghazi are PL standard.

That’s a bit harsh on El Ghazi.



Think it’s a bit harsh on both to be honest. Trezeguet has started, what, five games and several of them have been away against last years top six. Think while he has by no means been brilliant, he has shown glimpses of  promise.

Also, if we are going to continue playing Jack as one of the ‘wide forwards’ then I can’t see us adding to El Ghazi/Trez/Jota for the sake of one starting position in January.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 26, 2019, 03:07:33 PM
Don't let the stats fool you with AEG. His overall contribution is next to zero. I don't mind him coming off the bench with ten minutes to play but starting him is like playing with 10 men.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2019, 03:08:23 PM
AEG is averaging a goal or assist approx every 115 mins played so far this season, i'm not sure there's many other wingers doing better than that.

It's certainly better than Trezeguet's one assist in 517 minutes.  AEG has been much more effective out of the two.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
Wingers are nearly always inconsistent but their job is to create and score, which AEG is doing on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2019, 03:12:16 PM
AEG is averaging a goal or assist approx every 115 mins played so far this season, i'm not sure there's many other wingers doing better than that.

It's certainly better than Trezeguet's one assist in 517 minutes.  AEG has been much more effective out of the two.

I've been disappointed with Trez so far, you can see there's something potentially there but it isn't really happening for him yet.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: TheMalandro on October 26, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
AEG is averaging a goal or assist approx every 115 mins played so far this season, i'm not sure there's many other wingers doing better than that.

It's certainly better than Trezeguet's one assist in 517 minutes.  AEG has been much more effective out of the two.

I've been disappointed with Trez so far, you can see there's something potentially there but it isn't really happening for him yet.

His shooting has been diabolical. He needs a goal.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 26, 2019, 03:27:49 PM
His lack of effort is shocking
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 26, 2019, 03:34:44 PM
I can forgive a forward not scoring if he's putting himself about,leading the line, working the centre halves.
Wesley didn't do anything like enough for a premier standard forward. Cost us as much  as defensive fuck ups.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 26, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
I can forgive a forward not scoring if he's putting himself about,leading the line, working the centre halves.
Wesley didn't do anything like enough for a premier standard forward. Cost us as much  as defensive fuck ups.

When he's bad he's fuckin useless - no effort at all, just a passenger!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 26, 2019, 04:05:24 PM
He's poor in the air, has no pace, bulky but gets bullied by shit defenders half his size, has no range of shooting, he's lazy, has an attitude problem and can't hold the ball up for toffee.

Play him vs plop errmm... NO!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 26, 2019, 04:24:30 PM
A lot of fans are quickly losing patience with him (myself included). You can forgive lack of goals if the effort is there, but he is showing absolutely nothing. Not even a glimmer of hope that he'll come good.

He spent most of the game flinging his arms in the air moaning about this or that. The thing which did if for me was when Grealish was hurtling down the left wing, and he was just meandering forwards 20/30 yards behind the play, when he should have been breaking his neck to get forward into the box. Utterly useless.

I don't think Keinan is the answer, but he's probably the best we've got until January. I'd definitely drop Wesley and give him a run in the team, starting with Wolves and Liverpool. Hopefully, he can have the 'Benteke-effect' against the latter, tear them a new one, and send them on a run where their title challenge implodes!  ;)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 26, 2019, 04:31:19 PM
Wesley isn't the first player to take time to adapt to the Premier League and he won't be the last and 4 goals from 10 isn't too bad. However it's clear how much better we'd be with a quick, nippy striker and Wesley isn't that.

He might get better, he might improve but would he ever really be what we need with the other attacking players we have?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 26, 2019, 04:50:00 PM
Wesley isn't the first player to take time to adapt to the Premier League and he won't be the last and 4 goals from 10 isn't too bad. However it's clear how much better we'd be with a quick, nippy striker and Wesley isn't that.

He might get better, he might improve but would he ever really be what we need with the other attacking players we have?

Agreed. His goal ratio isn't actually that bad, especially for a player new to this league, but that glosses over the real problem - Effort.

For our team to function properly (as it did last season with Tammy up front), we need a mobile center forward who is always looking for/able to hold the ball up. Wesley isn't that player. In most of our matches this season, we may as well have been playing with 10 men. Not having someone who can make the ball stick up front, invites pressure and tiredness on the rest of the team - Which is why I think we're imploding every game around the 3/4 mark.

Not impressed with his pace either - He's like the footballing equivalent of Bowser in Mario Kart - Takes an age to get up to full speed!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 26, 2019, 05:25:38 PM
Not impressed thus far.

Would start Davis for next few games and give him a run. He can hold the ball up which will bring the midfield higher up the pitch.

Not sure what Wesley's main attributes are he seems mediocre at everything and doesn't bust a gut either.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2019, 05:33:59 PM
I still think ultimately it’s a recruitment failure that’s harming Wesley. He shouldn’t be the single main striker he should have been gradually being bedded in. Yes he’s struggled at times, but I wouldn’t write him off.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2019, 05:46:54 PM
He really does me remind me of Savo when he first arrived, difference is Savo had Yorke alongside him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: TheMalandro on October 26, 2019, 06:03:20 PM
He really does me remind me of Savo when he first arrived, difference is Savo had Yorke alongside him.

Agree with that.

I really like him. But it’s a big ask for him to play that role.
If he scores every three or four games, he’ll have had a good season.

I disagree with the claims he’s lazy, his job is to be available up front.


Having said that, I’d have preferred Maupay.  He’s a slippery sod.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 26, 2019, 06:52:43 PM
He really does me remind me of Savo when he first arrived, difference is Savo had Yorke alongside him.

Agree with that.

I really like him. But it’s a big ask for him to play that role.
If he scores every three or four games, he’ll have had a good season.

I disagree with the claims he’s lazy, his job is to be available up front.


Having said that, I’d have preferred Maupay.  He’s a slippery sod.

That’s the problem though. He doesn’t make himself available anywhere near enough, and is rarely in the right place to receive the ball anyway.

Watching the Chelsea game and I reckon Tammy has done more running in the 20 mins since HT than Wesley has all season.

Effort. Is it too much to ask for?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on October 26, 2019, 07:09:43 PM
So, I do not understand all the negativity toward our Wesley. Today, he won several balls in the air, did a lot of work off the ball and generally ploughed a lonely furrow. No one worked particularly well around him to collect what ball he did win. Davis looked bright and active when he came on. Neither looked like matchwinners. Wesley worked hard to close people down.
But he doesn't look like he's enjoying himself!
What we lack in our squad are options for changing the game: the only value of replacing Wesley with Davis is having fresh legs up front. We actually need an alternative striker who has a different game and presents different challenges for defenders.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: LukeJames on October 26, 2019, 07:30:19 PM
I like him but he does get pissed off and frustrated easily, id like us to try and get Davis and Wes together. We could put out a nice looking 3-5-2 with the personel we have. Guilbert and Targett pretty much play as wing backs already. Konsa at the back with Mings and Engels. Jack, McGinn and Nakamba as the 3 in the middle.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 26, 2019, 09:17:32 PM

That’s the problem though. He doesn’t make himself available anywhere near enough, and is rarely in the right place to receive the ball anyway.

Watching the Chelsea game and I reckon Tammy has done more running in the 20 mins since HT than Wesley has all season.

Effort. Is it too much to ask for?



This isn’t directed specifically at you Nii - just a general comment/observation - but I generally find the criticism of professional footballers effort or perceived laziness a little odd. Mostly because it takes a huge amount of dedication and effort to actually become a footballers the first place, bar a few exceptions, that I don’t think most players have the mentality to coast through games/not put any effort it (Wesley going and playing in Slovakia doesn’t seem like a career decision driven by a lack of work rate and desire for example) and also I can’t see any way that Dean Smith is oblivious to or allows any lack of work rate/effort in games or training.

I guess his body language doesn’t always help, but that can be misleading (Messi can often looks like he’s doing very little if you chose to interperate it that way for example).


I more or less agree with Mister E in that I don’t think he did a terrible job today. We have played a couple of games, like today, where we have set up in a way where he is fairly isolated and often left 2v1 against the centre backs. Given that I thought he competed reasonable well and helped out defensively as well. Does he give the ball away too easily at times? Absolutely. But that accusation could also be levelled a a number of our players.  I don’t think he is doing a bad job at all overall.

Davis was lively went he came on, and I wouldn’t be against giving him a start against Liverpool, but I think the state of the game at that stage (the fact that it was over) also has to be taken in account when comparing his performance to Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 27, 2019, 06:55:45 PM
The effort issue is about him not showing or making runs often enough, I keep seeing a lack of movement from him when we are attacking and not giving the player with the ball an option.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: tony scott on October 27, 2019, 08:48:56 PM
  I don't think he was brought to be the main striker, and we failed to sign that target in the last window. At the moment he's a make do ,because we don't have any other serious options J K maybe ,but would have to find pre injury form . K D looks good in Cameos, off the bench rolls.  Would any off these alternatives have scored four goals ,or more after ten games?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: robbo1874 on October 27, 2019, 08:53:08 PM
I wouldn’t say he lacks effort. He does look like he can’t handle the pace of the premiership and from what I’ve seen so far, the games seem to pass him by. It’s really down to him to find a way to adjust to it and make an impact. He might benefit with another striker alongside him, in a 4-4-2. I like him, but he’s not very effective at the minute.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ROBBO on October 28, 2019, 05:53:46 AM
For the first fifteen minutes he did put himself about but he soon went back to normal, I'm not sure that his team mates have a lot of confidence in him as the ball seems to bypass him too often.
I really want him to be the answer up front but I think management will be looking to replace him in January I only hope they will open their wallets again and get someone who is ready made and not another prospect.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2019, 08:17:37 AM
I think he’ll be a good player. As I’ve said the problem is there’s far too much reliance on him, because we failed to get another striker in.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 28, 2019, 08:46:19 AM
He's 22 coming 23. He's not lived/played in England before let alone the PL. He's only ever played in Belgium before, so not a comparable  with the PL. He's played just 10 games for us. Up front on his own. We're a newly promoted side. With more than half a team of new players. We've generally found it fairly hard going so far as a team. He's scored 4 goals and had 1 assist in those 10 games.

Like, Hello!!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 28, 2019, 10:09:54 AM
Maybe he'll come good, but I would have expected a lot more signs of that given he's started every match.  Yes he's got a few goals, but his overall play just looks poor.  In particular his hold up play and and ability in the air are just not good enough for a player of his size.  We just need a lot more from our main striker.

To me he just feels like a massive waste of money.  Would love him to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on October 28, 2019, 10:26:56 AM
I'm just not seeing anything that makes him look like a £20m player.  He's not quick, or especially skilful, or good in the air.  It's not like he was prolific at his last club either.  What am I missing?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 28, 2019, 11:34:58 AM
How much does £20m actually get you in a striker now though, Risso?

I think there have been positives there - his finishing is ok and his link up play hasn’t been too bad when we have got players close to him.

He is clearly still developing his game. The problem I guess is that he needs minutes/games to actually bring this along and we are going to have to put up with a little bit of inconsistency etc. while this is happening.

Same also applies to Davis, I think,  who could of really done with a Championship loan where he would have played 90 minutes every week.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Marton on October 28, 2019, 12:03:56 PM
Honestly its hard to warm to him as a supporter with all the complaining ,whining, filming and negative body language.
Everything you like about John McGinn seems to have negative reflection in Wes.

He are improving a little bit though. Against City he linked up quite often with midfield and wingers by coming short and playing very simple bounds off him in the easiest way possible. The real problem though is that he doesn't seem to understand that he is supposed to be our main target in front of goal next when that cross can be made.Its frustrating to see him slowly, strolling toward the area after coming short to lay it back for midfielders attacking. He is never runs flat out to give them the option in the center.
He doesn't look that slow or winded...just confused about where he needs to be or plain lazy. Needs some coaching....or borrow a brain from striker.

The rest of the team is so good that there will be chances. Just have to get in the freaking area with some intent!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Billy Walker on October 28, 2019, 12:23:16 PM
He's a raw talent.  With effective coaching I feel he could become a very good player, four goals in ten games is not a bad return so far for the kid.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mallo on October 28, 2019, 12:58:26 PM
I think the confidence from other teammates is an important point - they could pass to him more, but I don't think they do as he invariably doesn't do much with it. He'll probably get better with coaching but we need a decent goal threat - I'd be looking to buy in January for sure. Give Davis a start against wolves. Is Kodjia fit?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 28, 2019, 03:38:29 PM
He's 22 coming 23. He's not lived/played in England before let alone the PL. He's only ever played in Belgium before, so not a comparable  with the PL. He's played just 10 games for us. Up front on his own. We're a newly promoted side. With more than half a team of new players. We've generally found it fairly hard going so far as a team. He's scored 4 goals and had 1 assist in those 10 games.

Like, Hello!!!

So maybe the management should have seen that, or did they think he would be good enough and he hadn’t showed it
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 28, 2019, 04:02:38 PM
He's 22 coming 23. He's not lived/played in England before let alone the PL. He's only ever played in Belgium before, so not a comparable  with the PL. He's played just 10 games for us. Up front on his own. We're a newly promoted side. With more than half a team of new players. We've generally found it fairly hard going so far as a team. He's scored 4 goals and had 1 assist in those 10 games.

Like, Hello!!!

So maybe the management should have seen that, or did they think he would be good enough and he hadn’t showed it

They obviously would have been aware of his background and previous level of performance.

I think that the club were clearly looking for a certain type of player that, in basic terms, would be; relatively cheap, young, good enough for this level but with plenty of scope to improve.

Given that, even though we are the Villa, we were a newly promoted team and needed to bring in at practically half a new squad we were very unlikely to get the finished article in many (any?) positions/players.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 28, 2019, 04:47:17 PM
I'm just not seeing anything that makes him look like a £20m player.  He's not quick, or especially skilful, or good in the air.  It's not like he was prolific at his last club either.  What am I missing?

I don’t think you’re missing anything Risso, overall so far he doesn’t look spectacular by any means, but I was trying to put the whole situation into perspective whilst pointing out that his actual goal ratio is quite reasonable so far. I think it’s unfair to get in his back as some are, and it’s my opinion that he’ll only get better. £22m these days doesn’t buy you a massive amount btw, we’ve been out of the top flight a few years and it looks like a lot to us but it’s really not.

In reply to some other posts, yes, I think he was exactly the sort of player we needed, someone who they felt could hold up the ball and bring others into it, which in pre season he looked like he could do. I think he’ll get better at it with experience and his finishing is actually a lot better than I thought it would be.
Would I buy another striker in January if I were Dean Smith and the right player became available? Absolutely.
Let’s not right Wes off just yet though as I think that would be very harsh. That goes for pretty much all the squad for me, at this moment in time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 28, 2019, 05:52:37 PM
I think we're all hoping he will come good.  But given the amount we spent in the summer, it didn't take a rocket scientist to realise we looked massively exposed up front.  We have managed to get by, but it just felt like a huge and unnecessary gamble to rely on Wes with such limited back up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Chipsticks on October 28, 2019, 06:10:15 PM
He's 22 coming 23. He's not lived/played in England before let alone the PL. He's only ever played in Belgium before, so not a comparable  with the PL. He's played just 10 games for us. Up front on his own. We're a newly promoted side. With more than half a team of new players. We've generally found it fairly hard going so far as a team. He's scored 4 goals and had 1 assist in those 10 games.

Like, Hello!!!

I tend to agree with this.

I think the fairest outcome would be explaining to them both that we'll be rotating depending on the game. Feels like Deano's scared that dropping Wes will shatter his confidence, whilst I don't think we can afford that risk.

Keinan looks massively 'up for it' and dangerous in the flashes we've seen so far. Hope that he starts against Wolves, plays well, and earns his shot.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 28, 2019, 06:24:46 PM
How much does £20m actually get you in a striker now though, Risso?



Well £40m got Newcastle Jolinton (sp) and 1 goal so far

And although Maupay was "busy" his return is not much better.
It was suggested that he needed the crowd supporting him and half want shot of him already. Davis did well when he came on as an unknown quantity against a tiring John Stone. But will only ever be a impact sub in the big games.

We need to help Wes through this transitional learning curve.

It makes me realise how much I underestimated Tammy and the work he did as well as the goals
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: danno on October 28, 2019, 07:22:10 PM
Is it not possible to play both Wes and Keinan? Trezegeut certainly hasn't made much of a case so far.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on October 28, 2019, 07:31:10 PM
Davis is a better all round player IMO
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KRS on October 28, 2019, 08:51:26 PM
What’s his chance conversion ratio stats like at the moment compared to other PL strikers? He may be getting criticised for not putting himself in the right positions and that can be easily addressed by the coaching staff, so I’d be more worried if he also wasn’t clinical in front of goal.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 29, 2019, 09:29:30 AM
What’s his chance conversion ratio stats like at the moment compared to other PL strikers? He may be getting criticised for not putting himself in the right positions and that can be easily addressed by the coaching staff, so I’d be more worried if he also wasn’t clinical in front of goal.
Would you be worried if at 6ft 3 and approx 93 kilos he was shit in the air and at holding the ball up?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: postal on October 29, 2019, 09:39:16 AM
He's not great in the air.
And he doesnt run that much ( he should be getting nearer the box when we break/ give and go, as he just seems to just "give" ) and he does tend to throw his arms in the air when it doesnt go his way, indicates a slight attitude problem.

Yes, its not easy to be a single forward, and if he had a partner to play off each other it might help, but he needs to be dropped for the EFL Cup, if only to give Davies a good run out and to give him a rest.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AV82EC on October 29, 2019, 11:18:50 AM
He's not great in the air.
And he doesnt run that much ( he should be getting nearer the box when we break/ give and go, as he just seems to just "give" ) and he does tend to throw his arms in the air when it doesnt go his way, indicates a slight attitude problem.

Yes, its not easy to be a single forward, and if he had a partner to play off each other it might help, but he needs to be dropped for the EFL Cup, if only to give Davies a good run out and to give him a rest.

How can he be dropped for the League Cup when he hasn’t played in it yet and Davis has started both games.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 29, 2019, 11:18:55 AM
What’s his chance conversion ratio stats like at the moment compared to other PL strikers? He may be getting criticised for not putting himself in the right positions and that can be easily addressed by the coaching staff, so I’d be more worried if he also wasn’t clinical in front of goal.

 I'll help and contribute facts or stats happy to answer that.

So chance conversion
Wesley 20 shots
12 on target
Goals 4
20% conversion

Comparatively:
Jordan Ayew 22%
Chris Wood  22%
Haller 21%
Wesley 20%
Ings 17.4%
Barnes 14.8%
Maupay 13.8

They have all scored 4 goals.

Wesley is not as efficient and successful a striker comparatively in minutes for a goal than all the other strikers to have scored 4 goals.
He has played the most minutes at least 30 more minutes than next striker Haller but has the worst of the minutes per goal ratio.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on October 29, 2019, 11:22:21 AM
He looks like a striker who needs someone up top with him. Try him and Keinan against Wolves, or pair him with Kodjia? It's the cup, nothing to lose, in some respects. Go for it.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 29, 2019, 11:25:35 AM
As I have made my position ultra clear. I will only ever come by reference stats and facts and leave my opinion here 
Ideally I like Wes to change that view but I've made my forecast and it's good to see others are aware of how limited this chap is.

Personally I recognize a sub standard striker who will ultimately within 18 months (maybe 18 games) be not making it at premier leauge level. Another player who doing settling and won't be motivated achievement wise but just to get decent earning playing contract. I already see shades of this and once a new signing in January window comes in it'll be down hill for this Wesley chap.

 Of course I hope I'm ever so wrong and Smith grows him into a top striker.
Anyway here on in i'll only give stats or facts, that need answering , will be my contribution regards this guy . Without comment. Just what the data says.

We'll see . (I hope I'm grossly wrong and deluded !!)

Up the villa!!
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on October 29, 2019, 11:41:28 AM
What’s his chance conversion ratio stats like at the moment compared to other PL strikers? He may be getting criticised for not putting himself in the right positions and that can be easily addressed by the coaching staff, so I’d be more worried if he also wasn’t clinical in front of goal.

And to be fair ,as that what I am, and further info to your question

60% shot accuracy.
The highest of any of the 4 goal strikers

Also
He's had 7 big chances and scored 4
Thats the most taken by any of the 4 goal strikers

Basically the data suggest his goals are from big chances
His XG is expected
Ayew is overperforming and creates goals from nothing were as likes of Wood and Wesley are served goals .

Also he has made 1 assist and only Ings and Haller can equal that.
The other 4 goal strikers 0.

XG
Chris Wood 4.54
Wesley 4.48
Haller 4.32
Maupay 4.29
Ings 4.07
And overperforming are
Barnes 3.96
Ayew 3.07



Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 29, 2019, 11:43:18 AM
He's already making it at Premier League level you buffoon. Whether he 'tears it up' to the level that some seem to be expecting him to do remains to be seen. Those stats are a load of micro-analytic bollocks. Have you considered how many have played in the PL before and how many are in established PL teams.

The bit where i do agree with the gist of what you are saying is regarding other factors having an effect on how well he does. For example, if we sign a striker in January who is a massive hit from the start and keeps him out, with him eventually signing for someone else then we'll never know. If we sign someone who doesn't do the business or gets injured and Wes continues to get the opportunity and improves his game quite a bit he'll still be our number 9 next season. You could also consider luck with injuries and many other factors.
All i know is, he's young, raw and he's done alright so far but we do need someone else to compete with him as well as Davies and that can offer a slightly different skill set.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: postal on October 29, 2019, 11:45:06 AM
He's not great in the air.
And he doesnt run that much ( he should be getting nearer the box when we break/ give and go, as he just seems to just "give" ) and he does tend to throw his arms in the air when it doesnt go his way, indicates a slight attitude problem.

Yes, its not easy to be a single forward, and if he had a partner to play off each other it might help, but he needs to be dropped for the EFL Cup, if only to give Davies a good run out and to give him a rest.

How can he be dropped for the League Cup when he hasn’t played in it yet and Davis has started both games.

Oh my god.  ???

He can be dropped for the EFL Cup game, even if he hasnt played in that comp. yet, as its the next game. He is still in the first 11 and might continue to be, regardless of the next game.

Had the next game been a Leaque game I would have made the same arguement / reasons. And yes, even if he doesnt play in the EFL Cup game, I still dont think he should be playing at the next League game.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on October 29, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
I hope you're grossly wrong too Footy.  Lots os us are a bit (lot) sceptical, but my reality check is that the scouting / aquisitions team saw enough in him to take the punt.  I don't have any problem with us buying a player like this, but I do seriously question not bringing in further back up.

We've been able to bed the likes of Trezuget, Jota, Luiz etc in more slowly as we have alternatives.  With Wesley it's always felt very 'Shit-or-bust' 

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on October 29, 2019, 12:51:42 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 29, 2019, 01:24:30 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on October 29, 2019, 03:05:33 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.

Would be an very good signing as he looks an excellent player but has just agreed a new contract increasing his buyout to €100 so maybe slightly out of our price range.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 29, 2019, 04:12:38 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.

Would be an very good signing as he looks an excellent player but has just agreed a new contract increasing his buyout to €100 so maybe slightly out of our price range.

Nothing is out of our price range ;)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on October 30, 2019, 05:14:57 PM
Maupay was.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Dazvillain on October 30, 2019, 05:38:28 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.
But having bought prospects for improving their value at start of season, for this position in January, surely we need a proven scorer with track record , not an up and coming/he’ll improve signing ?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 30, 2019, 06:05:27 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.
But having bought prospects for improving their value at start of season, for this position in January, surely we need a proven scorer with track record , not an up and coming/he’ll improve signing ?

AEG is not a winger, neither is Jota. Trez is the closest thing we have to one but even he has failed to convince. Pointless having a striker if we can't provide him with decent service.

Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2019, 08:32:41 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Possibly Chukwueze but he has a €60m release clause. He's only 20 and only broken into the first team this season.
But having bought prospects for improving their value at start of season, for this position in January, surely we need a proven scorer with track record , not an up and coming/he’ll improve signing ?

If there is any chance we can get Chukwueze in (£26m seems to be the price doing the rounds for him in links to almost everyone) then we should do regardless of how experienced he is, he'll be one of the best players in the world in a few years from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on November 09, 2019, 10:16:22 PM
Called up to the Brazil squad for the upcoming matches.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 09, 2019, 10:22:04 PM
Called up to the Brazil squad for the upcoming matches.

Delighted for him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 09, 2019, 10:42:19 PM
I hope this gives him a massive boost ahead of the game tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: walsall villain on November 09, 2019, 11:05:04 PM
Didn’t see that anywhere. Are you thinking about our wee Duggy Luis?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on November 09, 2019, 11:10:38 PM
Didn’t see that anywhere. Are you thinking about our wee Duggy Luis?

Nope. Wasn’t in the original squad but has been called up this evening as a replacement for David Neres.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: walsall villain on November 09, 2019, 11:12:33 PM
Didn’t see that anywhere. Are you thinking about our wee Duggy Luis?

Nope. Wasn’t in the original squad but has been called up this evening as a replacement for David Neres.
That’s good news.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 09, 2019, 11:34:44 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Samuel Chukuweze hopefully. Been a bit quiet this season but huge potential and played well last year. Has the right profile for the premier league.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 09, 2019, 11:38:08 PM
Regardless of whether you rate him or not this is simply an incredible story. Guy was what a part timer in the Slovak league a few years back and has never been capped by Brazil at any level (Unlike Doug). It's a similar story to likes of Vardy and Rickie Lambert getting England caps.

He should be on cloud 9 tomorrow.

This also improves our standing in the game if other players are seeing us having players called up for the better national teams (seems Engels missed out again for Belgium but he must be close) so all good.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: tomd2103 on November 09, 2019, 11:51:26 PM
We're scouting Villarreal heavily for a winger apparently, as a striker is less a priority.

No idea who they have out wide.

Not doubting your sources Ads, but surely a striker has to be the number one priority in the January window, just to take a bit of pressure off Wesley.  There have been whispers about the striker at Rangers haven't there?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 10, 2019, 12:47:55 AM
I don't see any kind of half way house situation in January, either Wes is our centre-forward then or he isn't. I think he will be. I reckon he'll finish somewhere around 9th top scorer in the division.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aldridgeboy on November 10, 2019, 01:03:12 AM
I’m Surprised but delighted for him. Hopefully he has a stormer, and comes back ready to smash every defence in the league.

It also can’t help but increase his valuation
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JJ-AV on November 10, 2019, 07:46:40 AM
We need a centre forward as well as Wes. Ideally someone who can play wide of a front three too to give us a bit more of a goal threat.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2019, 08:33:57 AM
Well done Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on November 10, 2019, 09:26:13 AM
Watching Tammy A on MOTD earlier, it struck me how even when he didn't win the first header players like Willian were in the right place to pick up the pieces.
For me, that is the challenge with making the most of what Wesley does: other players need to get closer to him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Nii Lamptey on November 10, 2019, 10:16:46 AM
Watching Tammy A on MOTD earlier, it struck me how even when he didn't win the first header players like Willian were in the right place to pick up the pieces.
For me, that is the challenge with making the most of what Wesley does: other players need to get closer to him.

Kind of agree.. but he also needs to put that Liverpool performance in EVERY game. Compare that showing to how dire he was against Brighton and it's as if we have 2 completely different players.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clampy on November 10, 2019, 10:20:35 AM
I'm probably in a minority here but I didn't think he was that great against Liverpool. He put the effort in but he got nowhere near the box half the time.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 10, 2019, 10:39:07 AM
I’m very undecided on him, come on have a stormer today
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: eamonn on November 10, 2019, 11:15:35 AM
The Brazilian Rickie Lambert! I like it.
A couple of mill more due to Bruges I guess, now.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 05:07:13 PM
The jury no longer out.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2019, 05:27:29 PM
Shite.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 10, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
Agreed. Sadly.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Villafirst on November 10, 2019, 05:52:41 PM
No real alternatives up front. Stupid policy of only signing one striker in the summer. Everyone could see the potential risk with any injuries except the decision makers.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Goldie.7 on November 10, 2019, 06:28:42 PM
Kozak was more useful than this fucker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on November 10, 2019, 06:32:19 PM
Abject today, which seems to be about his level.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 10, 2019, 06:42:40 PM
Another "AWOL day"
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: myf on November 10, 2019, 06:44:03 PM
he seems to be okay outside the box in link up play but non existent in it. what the hell was that shot when laid back from El Ghazi?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: brontebilly on November 10, 2019, 06:44:53 PM
Beggars belief how he has made the Brazilian national squad. Seems very poor technically, can't imagine him impressing the likes of Neymar.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on November 10, 2019, 06:56:03 PM
The Brazilian Rickie Lambert! I like it.
A couple of mill more due to Bruges I guess, now.
After today, more like the Brazilian Ricky Gervais.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: FatSam on November 10, 2019, 07:05:15 PM
Not sure where you start with that. 

But one thing is for sure if Dean continues to play that formation with Wesley (probably the worst striker I’ve ever since in the shirt) then he won’t be our manager come Christmas.

Rudy Gestede was our striker last time we were in this league.
Rudy was truly awful.  But he edges Wesley.
Really? Gestede managed 5 goals in 32 games, and could control the ball further than Most players can kick it. Wesley has 4 goals so far in his debut season in England, and is capable of link-up play. He is however inconsistent, and has looked poor in several games. I’m confident that there is a player in there.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2019, 07:07:16 PM
That shot AEG laid off to him (and he predictably skied). Without exaggerating, I can think of 7 players in the team today who I’d prefer to have hit that than him, our only viable striker.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 07:08:15 PM
Not sure where you start with that. 

But one thing is for sure if Dean continues to play that formation with Wesley (probably the worst striker I’ve ever since in the shirt) then he won’t be our manager come Christmas.

Rudy Gestede was our striker last time we were in this league.
Rudy was truly awful.  But he edges Wesley.
Really? Gestede managed 5 goals in 32 games, and could control the ball further than Most players can kick it. Wesley has 4 goals so far in his debut season in England, and is capable of link-up play. He is however inconsistent, and has looked poor in several games. I’m confident that there is a player in there.
Must be very good at hiding.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2019, 07:16:23 PM
Don’t agree that he’s hopeless. He was just massively isolated, he shows some useful touches when there was anyone vaguely near him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Newby on November 10, 2019, 07:19:49 PM
Don’t agree that he’s hopeless. He was just massively isolated, he shows some useful touches when there was anyone vaguely near him.

I agree.  He wasn't hopeless, he was very isolated.  He should have done better with the side foot though.  He was no more poor than anyone else today.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Luke8 on November 10, 2019, 07:28:26 PM
Don’t agree that he’s hopeless. He was just massively isolated, he shows some useful touches when there was anyone vaguely near him.

I would agree with this. It was noticeable how much better we kept the ball in the final third and more likely we looked to create chances in the second half when McGinn (and the wingers to an extent) was playing much closer to Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: JJ-AV on November 10, 2019, 07:35:52 PM
Needs to be the number 2. Doing the role Davis has been doing. We need a centre forward to lead the line, he's not there yet.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 07:38:07 PM
I'm struggling with this signing to be honest. Has Dean Smith ever played with a big centre forward before? I could be wrong but I don't recall one at Brentford. He had Hogan and Maupay who were smaller and moved into spaces for the through balls and angled passes. I don't even count Tammy as he's not the traditional CF I'm referring to. He's much more mobile.

Yet we have bought a big centre forward, playing him up all alone up front in a brand new league with the rest of the midfield and wide men too far away to help out. Add to that as a big man Wes doesn't really hold the ball up well, doesn't really have a trick or a turn of pace. Is big and looks strong but doesn't intimidate the defenders. Can't really jump for headers either. So either this was a miss as a signing or it's a miss in how we play to get the best out of him. When we have played close to him or got crosses in from the touchline he looks like he is somewhat instinctive. But in the 18 yd box outside of the goal vs Everton I don't recall a meaningful shot and he's done next to nothing outside of the box. I just don't get why we signed him if he's not the type of forward Dean Smith normally employs.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2019, 07:42:15 PM
Missing out on Tammy and getting him instead will go down as one of the weirdest plan Bs we’ve seen here. Both makes some sense, one instead of the other is bizarre.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 11, 2019, 03:49:06 PM

Early in the game yesterday there was a break down the right and the ball was slung in early, Weswas in the Centre forward position, the Wolves goalkeeper caught the ball near the ground-on the penalty spot.
Wes had-run 10 yards away from where the ball landed.
I mentioned before he has a problem picking the flight of the ball, this was a startling demonstration.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: chrisw1 on November 11, 2019, 04:53:58 PM
At the moment he it truly awful and the goals he has scored can't mask his poor over all play.

Maybe he'll come good, but right now he is just not good enough.  He will cost us dearly if he / we can't sort it out very quickly.  We could be in a very difficult position come mid to late January which realistically is the earliest we can hope for a replacement.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 11, 2019, 06:09:49 PM
At the moment he it truly awful and the goals he has scored can't mask his poor over all play.

Maybe he'll come good, but right now he is just not good enough.  He will cost us dearly if he / we can't sort it out very quickly.  We could be in a very difficult position come mid to late January which realistically is the earliest we can hope for a replacement.

Can’t argue with that
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 11, 2019, 06:19:29 PM
The way Smith was gushing about Jimenez and what he brings to the team was I think a sly shout at some players  deficiency.
This was as much as the acknowledgement of Raul effort as it was the now clear frustration Smith has feeling with Wesley
It was only a matter of time.
The lack of desire he shows time and again prompted Smith to go on about a proper striker like Jimenez and how he makes runs and contribute to the team both in goals and desires
The contrast between these 2 is staggering.
Sooner window comes and can bring in a more mobile and effective striker the better.
I think Smith was fuming with him and a few others at half time .

I just hope suso let's Smith have more say in next signing.
I think 40mil + was felt excessive to spend on 2 championship players Webster and Maupay and we went overseas
I think Smith would have happily taken these 2 and Benrahama Brentford but the club wanted to look elsewhere
We continue to live in hope that Smith can work his magic on Wesley
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 11, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Trouble is he's away on tour with Brazil and would be better served learning ropes at Villa . Don't think Smith is super happy as would have been chance for Wesley to have some special development training.
His call up is sheer nonsense and is a political and marketing move for exhibition match and having premier league 'stars '.

The Brazilian Rickie Lambert! I like it.
A couple of mill more due to Bruges I guess, now.
After today, more like the Brazilian Ricky Gervais.




File under Jo and Alfonso Alves as dud Brazilian signings from Premier league.
They made Brazil squads too
And those 2 had decent scoring records before they came !

Can't imagine Firmino and Jesus be thinking much of Wesley when he goes Saudi Arabia with them
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 11, 2019, 06:35:37 PM
I’m very undecided on him, come on have a stormer today

I get it can be hard to look objectively as he plays for our great club but come on if you saw him for another premier league club I think comments on 'other games' would be far less supportive.
It's ok not to rate him but still support him with hope he does well . That's how I see it but I saw pretty early how poor he is.
I don't think you can say he's improving.
And as I say I'm sure if he was playing for wolves we be far less concerned about him than Jimenez

I can only think of Che Adams being any worse at this level from summer signings
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on November 11, 2019, 06:46:13 PM
I thought you weren't going to say another word on Wesley.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on November 11, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
Give it a rest, 3 posts in a row to say you don't rate him, including saying you think Smith is frustrated with him (and specifically him) and your almost customary self-agrandising "I said it before anyone else" that you like to throw out whenever you say anything that vaguely resembles what happens.

Wesley missed a couple of chances where he should have done better but other than that he was on his own against a back 3 for most of the game and looked totally isolated. A few times in the 2nd half he came a bit deeper and looked much more effective when he wasn't being crowded out. I'm in no way saying he played well but it's particularly boring to see 3 posts in 20minutes to say "I told you he was shit" because he had a bad game.  No one comes out of the first half yesterday well, it's the worst we've played since Smith arrived, and rightly saw us get nothing from the game, but have some perspective.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 11, 2019, 08:02:45 PM
I thought you weren't going to say another word on Wesley.


Come on it’s only 3 posts. 8)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Pete3206 on November 11, 2019, 08:11:35 PM
He needs some help up front. It's as simple as that. Having players hogging each wing is not working.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: nigel on November 11, 2019, 08:37:39 PM
Missing out on Tammy and getting him instead will go down as one of the weirdest plan Bs we’ve seen here. Both makes some sense, one instead of the other is bizarre.

We didn't miss out on Tammy, though.
Chelsea couldn't/wouldn't sell
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mr underhill on November 11, 2019, 08:40:20 PM
From what I have seen you could partner him with the best forward in the world and he's still be what he is,  but I hope he proves us wrong. It seems like we get this position consistently wrong. Stars burn brightly for a while then fall to earth or as in this case,  they just splutter along like damp squibs.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Ads on November 11, 2019, 08:45:42 PM
Jiminez struck me as a bit of a donkey in the box. Missed the target routinely until given acres of time and space
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on November 11, 2019, 08:53:58 PM
Jiminez struck me as a bit of a donkey in the box. Missed the target routinely until given acres of time and space

No pace either, fair play he scores a decent amount but I thought he was poor most of the game, it was Traore and Jota that we struggled with, Traore was just too quick and Jota was playing between Konsa and Guilbert who haven't played together much and it showed.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 11, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
He needs some help up front. It's as simple as that. Having players hogging each wing is not working.

Very good point. Have a look at the video of Trez on the first page of his thread. That's two players we're not maximising their potential. As for El Ghazi, said it before, he's no winger but can be more useful playing more inside. It's worth a go until January.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: KRS on November 11, 2019, 09:14:30 PM
He needs some help up front. It's as simple as that. Having players hogging each wing is not working.
Wes certainly isn’t being helped by Trez and El Ghazi being piss poor wingers that either can’t beat their man or put in a decent cross. I’m not sure how good Wes is in the air either if they did manage to put in a decent ball. His general hold up play is decent when played into his feet but he isn’t a goal threat receiving the ball deep or with his back to goal. All 3 of them haven’t shown enough consistently this season, so it’s unfair to single out Wes.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 12, 2019, 12:51:07 PM
I thought you weren't going to say another word on Wesley.


Come on it’s only 3 posts. 8)

Where I come from I adhere to the comment where comment is due .
Concisement is next to be done.
I.e. what can be said in one post than 3
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on November 12, 2019, 01:22:34 PM
Missing out on Tammy and getting him instead will go down as one of the weirdest plan Bs we’ve seen here. Both makes some sense, one instead of the other is bizarre.

We didn't miss out on Tammy, though.
Chelsea couldn't/wouldn't sell

You know what I mean. We appeared to be openly interested in him until it was clear Chelsea weren’t selling. To turn from him to Wesley as our main striker is strategically a bizarre move.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 12, 2019, 02:19:36 PM
We needed someone to make the ball stick up front and that's what we thought Wesley would be. I reckon that they also realised that they needed another option (a replacement for Tammy if you like) and that's the player we didn't get, but hopefully will get in January.
As it turns out, so far Wesley looks to me like (at this level) his ability to make the ball stick is not brilliant although i think with players around him to give better support you would see that improve, there are signs there (Everton at Home in particular) that he can do it. What has pleasantly surprised me is his finishing and general ability to get on the end of things created for him. The other attacking players haven't created bucket loads for him but he's generally done well with what he has been given, piss poor penalty against Norwich and blazing shot over the bar against Wolves aside.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on November 12, 2019, 06:07:48 PM
Wesley needs (i) the ball on the deck and (ii) players closer to him with whom he can trade passes; neither of which has been evident so far.
If we are going to play AEG and Trezeguet, they need to be working harder to link with each other and Wesley, not just hauling their arse up and down the wing: all three have talent but are not combining it to greatest effect. The two fullbacks can do more of the wing-work, with Marv and Luiz covering them defensively.

I don't think it's too complicated, but they do need to be fitter and be better at ball retention.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: themossman on November 12, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
Yeah good points. Trezeguet and el ghazi playing  on the flanks is a complete waste of time when you’ve got Wes up front.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 12, 2019, 11:07:56 PM
Ibrahimović is available on a free transfer in the January window when his LA Galaxy contract ends.
Please let have a short term option !
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: kieron on November 12, 2019, 11:08:09 PM
Whatever we may think of them at time of writing, best of luck to Wes and Dug over the coming days - it must be such a feeling to get a call up to the iconic Brazilian first team.


https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1194383606002704384

"First workout! Too happy for this moment. 🇧🇷🙏💪"

(https://i.ibb.co/G5Nbsmk/image.png) (https://ibb.co/G5Nbsmk)

(https://i.ibb.co/hHvZB9P/image.png) (https://ibb.co/hHvZB9P)
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 12, 2019, 11:19:52 PM
This will go to his agents head and he'll be demanding a pay rise
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: aj2k77 on November 12, 2019, 11:23:55 PM
Well he can fuck off.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 12, 2019, 11:26:00 PM
Ibrahimović is available on a free transfer in the January window when his LA Galaxy contract ends.
Please let have a short term option !

He wouldn't sign, and he's a massive bellend.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 12, 2019, 11:26:56 PM
This will go to his agents head and he'll be demanding a pay rise

Yes, and there's a good chance Wes will murder some babies while he's there. The bastard.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 13, 2019, 12:28:16 AM
From what I have seen you could partner him with the best forward in the world and he's still be what he is,  but I hope he proves us wrong. It seems like we get this position consistently wrong. Stars burn brightly for a while then fall to earth or as in this case,  they just splutter along like damp squibs.

The last three players we've had regularly in this position were Benteke, Kodjia and Abraham. What failures they were...
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 13, 2019, 07:46:06 AM
He doesn’t look it at the moment, just guess we have got to wait, although I hope we buy a striker in January. Is it because Wes isn’t that good? Hasn’t settled? or we are using him wrong?
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2019, 07:46:35 AM
You can probably include Grabban as well.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: mallo on November 13, 2019, 09:08:11 AM
Hopefully he keeps the morale (no pun intended) up and comes back fighting.

Hatem Ben Arfa is a free agent..

It might be worth having a look at how many through balls he got which he could do something with - admittedly he doesn't get himself into positions where they want to pass a lot but it might highlight whether the midfield should be doing more to support him.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Risso on November 13, 2019, 09:19:18 AM
From what I have seen you could partner him with the best forward in the world and he's still be what he is,  but I hope he proves us wrong. It seems like we get this position consistently wrong. Stars burn brightly for a while then fall to earth or as in this case,  they just splutter along like damp squibs.

The last three players we've had regularly in this position were Benteke, Kodjia and Abraham. What failures they were...

Isn't the fact that you've included Benteke who left 4½ years ago, and Kodjia, who's had one good season for us, sort of making his point that we've consistently got the striker position wrong?  The big money signings of McCormack, Ayew, Gestede and Hogan, as well as the decision not to sign another forward this season would make me think he's got a point to be honest.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 13, 2019, 09:52:25 AM
He doesn’t look it at the moment, just guess we have got to wait, although I hope we buy a striker in January. Is it because Wes isn’t that good? Hasn’t settled? or we are using him wrong?
It’s the most difficult position on the pitch, particularly playing as a lone striker. He isn’t up to it, I don’t think he is necessarily a bad player and he will improve. He would be ok in the Championship.
But he is a long way off Premier League level right now and we cannot afford to wait to see if he wil get there. There are some fundamental problems with his game, inability to pick the flight of the ball and a lack of movement. We took a huge gamble on him without back up and we have to try and get someone in January or we will struggle to stay up.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Vill I An on November 13, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
I think maybe beIN sports or euro sport covering these
Friday in Saudia Arabia . V Argentina 5pm (Messi first game back from 3 month suspension)
Tuesday 19th In Abu Dhabi . V  South Korea  1:30pm

Now Wesley should be getting some minutes in these games.
He'll also be having a decent supply line with Willian , Coutinho and Barcas Artur (a talented play maker )
Potentially Wes will play some minutes alongside Richarlison , Jesus,  Firmino
There's no doubt he'll get goal scoring opportunities in these matches so would of course be nice for a goal or two.
I wouldn't get carried away unless he's hitting obsence number of goals in those friendlies.
What is the real bonus of this call up is he's getting to play and train with some high quality players.
Now hopefully the national team coaches will help develop him and he comes back with a burning desire.
What ideally I love he comes back as a hybrid of Firmino / Richarlison. Learning hold up play and heading ability.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Axl Rose on November 13, 2019, 10:46:57 AM
I think you're obsessed with Wesley, footy.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 13, 2019, 12:27:25 PM
From what I have seen you could partner him with the best forward in the world and he's still be what he is,  but I hope he proves us wrong. It seems like we get this position consistently wrong. Stars burn brightly for a while then fall to earth or as in this case,  they just splutter along like damp squibs.

The last three players we've had regularly in this position were Benteke, Kodjia and Abraham. What failures they were...

Isn't the fact that you've included Benteke who left 4½ years ago, and Kodjia, who's had one good season for us, sort of making his point that we've consistently got the striker position wrong?  The big money signings of McCormack, Ayew, Gestede and Hogan, as well as the decision not to sign another forward this season would make me think he's got a point to be honest.

I think you are right
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Mister E on November 13, 2019, 12:55:48 PM
The big money signings of McCormack, Ayew, Gestede and Hogan ...
Of all the strikers mentioned in this and other posters, the only one that would enhance our squad now  - in terms of the way he's playing now - would be Jordan Ayew. He looks strong and sharp even if he's not scoring many.
Not that I'd necessarily be in favour of bringing him back.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 13, 2019, 01:07:38 PM
The big money signings of McCormack, Ayew, Gestede and Hogan ...
Of all the strikers mentioned in this and other posters, the only one that would enhance our squad now  - in terms of the way he's playing now - would be Jordan Ayew. He looks strong and sharp even if he's not scoring many.
Not that I'd necessarily be in favour of bringing him back.

Yeah, that's my sort of thinking. I'll always like Ayew as he was one of the very few who looked like he gave a shit in 2015-16 and he played pretty well for us. I still think he looks a reasonable PL centre forward now but you tend to think a bit greedily when we have the owners that we do, and i'm not sure 'reasonable' is the type of standard i'd like us to sign.
Title: Re: Wesley Moraes - signed (confirmed)
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 15, 2019, 06:58:09 PM
Got a couple of minutes at the end of Brazil's one-nil defeat to Argentina in Saudi Arabia. I was only watching on a small phone screen with no replays or commentary but looked like he missed a half-decent chance to equalise during his brief cameo. Luiz didn't get off the bench.