Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: andyh on April 18, 2019, 10:51:51 PM
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We are on an incredible run and long may it continue.
Loads of interviews with Deano and players have asked about why and when things turned and the consensus seems to be the return of Jack, the introduction of Mings and other players returning from injury.
I have been thinking about this and I think the turn around stems more from Deano himself than anything else.
Remember the game at Stoke and the awful, awful first half. The manager himself said that at half time he had to lay into the players and tell some truths and that resulted in a better second half and the launch pad for the run we are on.
I reckon (for no reason other than its what I think) that that half time team talk is when he became the Villa manager ( head coach) and the players realised it.
Maybe, after the new manager bounce, they were all a bit too comfortable and he let them, and in letting them they got complacent and then lost form.
The Stoke game is when he thought fuck it, enough is enough, laid into them and the rest is history.
That’s what I reckon anyway.
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Definitely Stoke away, but after five mins when Elmo came on for Hutton we were one down. We haven’t looked back since. All hail the Egyptian King!
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Much as I respect Steve Bruce, I’d say the turning point was his sacking, the collective sigh of relief around the club, and Smith’s appointment. The shackles seem to have come off the whole squad/ team since.
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I heard from a good source that it was Tommy elphick that laid into them at half time at stoke
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The Stoke half time team talk will have helped, but I don't think we'd have improved as dramatically as we have without the return of Jack. That and Mings getting up to speed have been the launch pad for the improvement.
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As I said at the time, I think we ran out of the required energy to play DS's type of game. JG is obviously a massive factor as well, as was the effect Bruce's close season activity.
Now we are in this position, we have every chance to go up. It won't be straight-forward, there will be setbacks on the way.
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Getting shot of Bolasie.
Not that it resulted in an immediate upturn in fortunes, granted.
But everyone on the books now (even the loan lads like Tammy and Tuanzebe) are buying into the idea of getting us up and getting us up pronto. No passengers.
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Jack coming back, without him there is no chance we're top 6. Some of the other things mentioned have helped keep it going but it's blatantly obvious the catalyst is Jack. If Jack was still out where do you think we'd be in the league.
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"It was clearly when I decided to wear my skidmarked crusties backwards for the Stoke game."
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"It was clearly when I decided to wear my skidmarked crusties backwards for the Stoke game."
That, or when you live streamed your saucisson.
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None of the above. It was instantaneous when my son and I took the Wembley scarves from round our necks and threw them in the litter bin in Aston Park. I have completely thrown off the mob of hobgoblins making us lose by wearing an FC Cologne scarf.
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Jack coming back, without him there is no chance we're top 6. Some of the other things mentioned have helped keep it going but it's blatantly obvious the catalyst is Jack. If Jack was still out where do you think we'd be in the league.
Just look at the results when he was out and since.
As PWS says a number of other things have helped but the catalyst is undoubtedly Jack.
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I think that Stoke was a turning point. I went there with an "end of season/on the beach" type of attitude as I'd given up on the play offs (and I'm usually one of the most optimistic). Trailing at half time, the crowd shouting encouragement to the players as they walked off and the second half fightback. It was the type of game we could easily have lost in that 3 month run we had since WBA away.
That said, as others have stated, without Jack, we wouldn't have won all of these games and would not be in the top 6. It was exactly the same last year when he returned from injury just before Xmas. Everyone was attributing the upsurge in our form/attacking play to Steve Agnew's appointment. In hindsight, we now know that the real reason was the return of Jack. He is simply irreplaceable and we are a completely different team with him in it.
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Just looked back at the league table after 34 games. We have gained 28 points on Birmingham City in the last 8 matches. That has to be a record!!!
Jack and his captaincy has made a major difference. Plus the 'never say die' attitude of McGinn and Mings is contagious.
Dean Smith has knocked the 'Butlins Holiday Camp' mentality out of this club. It took a real Villa supporter to do it. :D
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Grealish + McGinn + Abraham + Mings + Smith - Bruce = BANG!
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Smith has taken complete ownership of the players, they were Bruce's, they are no longer. We still have a way to go but it is so much better to watch. Jack, SJM, Mings and Tammy are in superb form. We have a real driving force and Smith is doing a great job in pulling it all together.
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the turning point was losing the play off final
at the time it was an awful experience then the financial meltdown and we looked doomed
but without that we wouldn’t have got the new mega rich owners we would still have the liability of Xia and Bruce albeit in the premiership for a very short spell in my opinion with the underlying money problems ready to unfold at any time
Look at us now new owners new CEO, new manager, playing entertaining football, making decent signings and a eye for future all in front of full houses
all possible because we lost that day
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The turning point?
Where it began, I can't begin to knowin'
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None of the above. It was instantaneous when my son and I took the Wembley scarves from round our necks and threw them in the litter bin in Aston Park. I have completely thrown off the mob of hobgoblins making us lose by wearing an FC Cologne scarf.
I have always attributed our decline between 1982 and 1987 on my Mum washing my lucky Villa scarf.
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sweet Caroline at stoke was the real turning point
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It was when I abandoned the Villa tracksuit top I wore at Wembley and most mtaches since and wore a non-Villa wooly jumper against Derby. When we won, I said I'd wear it every match till we lost.
Was uncomfortably warm at Bolton, prepared to swelter tomorrow.
Hope I'm sweating buckets at Wembley
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3 : A) The takeover B) Smiths appointment C) The smug season ticket holder gits in the row in front of me who left just before the first of the goals went in against Sheffield United. A was probably it , B was the happiest moment, but for sheer vindictive satisfaction it has to be C.
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The turning point?
Where it began, I can't begin to knowin'
Clever. I likes it
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The Stoke half time team talk will have helped, but I don't think we'd have improved as dramatically as we have without the return of Jack. That and Mings getting up to speed have been the launch pad for the improvement.
This.
Especially important is the move from a defence who looked comedically incapable of not being shit (think, for example, how easy it was for Sheffield United to put three past us) to one which looked looked absolutely solid.
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Must be in minority but we were o.k first half at Stoke, dodgy first 15 minutes but we should've got 1-1 soon after but El Ghazi was finishing like a pub player.
It's simply the return of Grealish.
I was also going to say Mings not getting a 3 match ban from the Reading game but don't think we actually won any of the following three games.
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Some of the things folks are saying are more long term turning points of the club which while I agree with the question was what was the catalyst as we went from 2 wins in 14 to 9 wins in a row. I'm sticking with Jack, all the other things happened but if Jack was still out there's zero chance we'd have won 9 in a row. I'd go so far that if he was still out we'd already be out of the play-off reckoning.
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Actually thinking about a specific moment in a game our friend Gardner missing that sitter in the 90th minute.
We should've had the SHA game long wrapped up at that point so dropping two points that late and to them and our season would've likely fizzled out like it has for likes of Forest and Preston.
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Even Mr Smith suggests it was 1/2 time at Stoke. Sweet Caroline...
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Sacking Mrs Doubtfire.
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Sacking Mrs Doubtfire.
Undoubtedly.
Only Mings in that team today that Bruce didn't have to choose from.
Taylor was useless, Jedinak was lost at centre half, Whelam was a liability, the keeper and key substitute were out on loan.
It's like night and day watching them now.
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A combination of Sweet Caroline and Jack coming back.
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I believe it was going to take some time for Smith's ideas to gel. After the initial burst team was not quite ready to consistently play in the new style. So whilst Jack's return added the confidence boost the team was always going to come good after the January signings to resolve the defensive issues.
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It's very simple. I stopped attending our away matches after Reading.
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Bought a Villa tracksuit top at Xmas, but I didn't wear it until we played Derby. We've won every game since. If only I'd worn it earlier we'd be in the automatic promotion places.
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Bought a Villa tracksuit top at Xmas, but I didn't wear it until we played Derby. We've won every game since. If only I'd worn it earlier we'd be in the automatic promotion places.
Yellow card.
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I've managed to take my boy to three matches this season. Stoke, laboured, pedestrian, lucky to get a draw. Ipswich, comfortably the worst team I've seen at Villa Park and we made hard work of beating them. Derby... 'don't expect too much, son, we aren't playing well, Jack's still out, Derby are ahead of us'... I think it's partly Dean's ideas starting to work, partly Mings/Hause compensating for Bruce's criminal failure to provide a functional back four and largely Jack 'I'm a middle aged heterosexual but I'm starting to have doubts (although I also kind of love John McGinn too)' Grealish.
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I've managed to take my boy to three matches this season. Stoke, laboured, pedestrian, lucky to get a draw. Ipswich, comfortably the worst team I've seen at Villa Park and we made hard work of beating them. Derby... 'don't expect too much, son, we aren't playing well, Jack's still out, Derby are ahead of us'... I think it's partly Dean's ideas starting to work, partly Mings/Hause compensating for Bruce's criminal failure to provide a functional back four and largely Jack 'I'm a middle aged heterosexual but I'm starting to have doubts (although I also kind of love John McGinn too)' Grealish.
We have tended to struggle against the lesser sides. We were comfortable against Millwall, Ipswich and Rotherham but the score-lines wouldn't back that theory up and yet, we seem to have saved our better performances against the sides around the play offs and higher. We have started to manage games well though. There is a lot of love for the players right now.
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I've managed to take my boy to three matches this season. Stoke, laboured, pedestrian, lucky to get a draw. Ipswich, comfortably the worst team I've seen at Villa Park and we made hard work of beating them. Derby... 'don't expect too much, son, we aren't playing well, Jack's still out, Derby are ahead of us'... I think it's partly Dean's ideas starting to work, partly Mings/Hause compensating for Bruce's criminal failure to provide a functional back four and largely Jack 'I'm a middle aged heterosexual but I'm starting to have doubts (although I also kind of love John McGinn too)' Grealish.
We have tended to struggle against the lesser sides. We were comfortable against Millwall, Ipswich and Rotherham but the score-lines wouldn't back that theory up and yet, we seem to have saved our better performances against the sides around the play offs and higher. We have started to manage games well though. There is a lot of love for the players right now.
Yup, should have beaten Albion (away) and Leeds to add to all the good performances against Sheffield Utd, Derby, Middlesbrough etc
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The cabbage.The most missile ever in sport.
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The decision to allow Whelan to take a penalty.
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Handing Bolaise his bicycle clips.
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Handing Bolaise his bicycle clips.
Genuinely forgot about him
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Dean Smith said in his interview after the match against Millwall that he also thought the turning point was at half-time against Stoke, when he 'got into the players at half-time'. Must have been some speech that!
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Dean Smith said in his interview after the match against Millwall that he also thought the turning point was at half-time against Stoke, when he 'got into the players at half-time'. Must have been some speech that!
Bloody hell, maybe I wasn’t a million miles away when I started this thread.
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Dead easy this. It was when I walked out at 0-3 vs Sheffield United.
No need to thank me!
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How many games did we have after that comeback? I remember the usual limp performance and defeat at Brentford was the next league game so can't really say that was the catalyst when it would seem an obvious turning people.
Having Grealish on the pitch just gets an extra 10% out of the players.
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Dead easy this. It was when I walked out at 0-3 vs Sheffield United.
No need to thank me!
Actually it was when I walked out at 0-3 vs Sheffield United. Sorry.
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I can tell you the real turning point:
My lad has been having his photo taken by a tree opposite the Holte pub since he was 4 years old. I have been saving them so that when he was 18 I would make a flick book style video showing him growing up. We’ve been garbage ever since I’ve started doing this in all fairness. He’s 10 now. On the day of the Derby game I was ordering his hot dog and he tapped me and said “Dad, my tree’s been chopped down”. I was gutted, plans ruined but do you know what, we’ve won every game since so that bloody tree was a curse and the curse has now been lifted. Strangely it’s the only tree on that side of the road to have been chopped down in that area. Good riddance!! :)
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Fuck the tree! No wait...
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A tree that can take photos!
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A tree that can take photos!
Genuine LOL then. Nice one.
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Dead easy this. It was when I walked out at 0-3 vs Sheffield United.
No need to thank me!
Actually it was when I walked out at 0-3 vs Sheffield United. Sorry.
Well I walked out as soon as clock struck 80 so it was me what did it.
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Is a phone-tree even more bizarre than a trouser-phone?
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That tree was always bad news. It was where a Tonev shot on goal ended up. He was shooting at the Witton End goal.