Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:21:25 PM

Title: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:21:25 PM
For me since my inception the lowest point since 1968, I know we were poor the but we have now spent 3 seasons in this league and we are mid table and shit with a big wage bill. For me so many players that wouldn't have got in the team that lifted us from the 3rd division but are payed a million times more yet give so little. We are at our lowest point and I want to see big changes.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 10:26:58 PM
Thanks very much Steve Bruce
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Kimaster1976 on January 12, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
We have been at a constant low point now since summer 2010 approx.

You have to wonder how somehow they keep finding new ways to sink lower.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Deano's Mullet on January 12, 2019, 10:30:50 PM
Today is the worst I have felt since relegation. At least two seasons ago finishing thirteen it felt like we were building towards the following year which was a very good league campaign but an ultimate failure at Wembley. Tonight I feel like it's back to square one. This isn't a bad team as proved by last season in general but the attitude from a lot of them stinks and we really dont know now what to expect from Smith. I am trying to have faith. He talks a good game but it really is up in the air.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 10:44:02 PM
I don't know if this is my lowest point as a Villa fan, but in the first Bruce season I thought things would get better, and they kind of did, because we spent and gained some momentum and started acting bigger. But tonight, I honestly don't know what the solution is, because we can't really spend and the players and manager don't seem to get each other.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Clampy on January 12, 2019, 10:46:01 PM
It was absolute shite  today but I think lowest point is stretching it a tad.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Steve67 on January 12, 2019, 10:46:45 PM
And yet, two home games on the bounce now, against in form Hull and just won a game Ipswich Town.  Win them both and..................

How many times do we say this?  Even if the scenario above happens, we do not have the players who are able to sustain what Smith wants them to deliver.  Many of them are poor technicians and panic like fuck when they are pressed by the oppo. 
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 10:48:03 PM
I don’t know about lowest point either but after 10 years of decline and drop from feeling really high and optimistic just 6 weeks ago at Boro to now is really testing and depressing.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
I'm just starting to become less and less interested with each game. I suppose that tells a story, at least to me.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:52:44 PM
I can't find a lower point, huge wage bill with players who are shit. 3 0 at Wigan is low, very low. I
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Steve67 on January 12, 2019, 10:57:29 PM
Getting relegated was the low point.  This is just more of the same.  The only good thing about this season is that, whilst the parachute payments cease completely, we have a shit load of players at the end of their contracts and will possibly wipe the slate clean.  There are a fair few Bosman frees out there this summer, including a couple of the better Brentford players.  The right structure seems to be in place at Villa now and we have to give Smith a bit of time.  We cannot keep sacking managers and trying to buy our way out of it.  We have to lay the foundations between now and the end of the transfer window in the summer and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:58:36 PM
If I have better players and a bigger wage bill I piss the championship. Glen whelan or hurry up or thor or Bree or whoever, they are shit and payed a fortune, then micah Richards and mcbigmack roll up, we are fucked for at least 2 more years until we build a proper villa team.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: kieron on January 12, 2019, 11:03:55 PM
Thanks very much Steve Bruce

There's only so long that people can continue to use the 'Bruce excuse' - personally, post this transfer window is when it's past its sell by date.

Use the excuse wisely for the next couple of weeks, folks. It can't be used forever and we'll need another to use.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: passport1 on January 12, 2019, 11:18:43 PM
Thanks very much Steve Bruce

There's only so long that people can continue to use the 'Bruce excuse' - personally, post this transfer window is when it's past its sell by date.

Use the excuse wisely for the next couple of weeks, folks. It can't be used forever and we'll need another to use.

I'm not so sure.The MON blame game had a heck of a shelf life.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
Forget Bruce, these wankers would sponge a living off anyone, 3 fucking 0 at Wigan, you absolute wankers.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 12, 2019, 11:46:55 PM
Not as bad as our premiership relegation but they are making every effort to get there.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
The worst I felt was when the final whistle went in the playoff final.  Obviously going up would have been massive in itself but that season in particular it would have been crucial.

It was worse to me than relegation (because that had been coming for a long time) and much worse than now (because we've got a new manager and he needs time).
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Nelly on January 13, 2019, 12:33:51 AM
It's an awful result today, no question. The way I see it is that the old ocean tanker is still in the long process of turning around.

I think we as fans have to stand firm - no doubt the media will soon be smelling blood and posturing for Smith to perhaps be sacked. "Under pressure" or however they dress it up. That just leads to more and more uncertainty and change. Constant flux. I'm certain with players who can play the way he wants them to we will do better. Lets see what he's made of.

For what it's worth, I think the worst I felt was us getting hammered 6-0 at Newcastle when they came back up. They truly spanked us. The game was already laced with their new-found hatred of us. Bastards.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: OzVilla on January 13, 2019, 12:59:51 AM
Being miles away makes things much easier for me but my low points where FA Cup Final 2000 and losing to Oldham in 1993, meaning Man Utd won the league. Just wanted to cry both times.

The downward spiral post MON has been littered with so many days like this picking a low point is like picking Gnat shit out of pepper. I’ve become immune to the gutless losses now.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 13, 2019, 01:07:30 AM
Its not ultimately the results I am worried about but our play. Even at  Swansea we were poor.  Smith isn't getting a tune out of some of the squad, Bolasie has given up, Taylor is just dog, Bree very much hit and miss and El Ghazi whilst not the worst flatters.

You have to question Dean Smith with regards to one or two things,  Bolasie I would play on the right leaving Adomah on the left with Hutton linking up. it worked last season so give it a go.  I would recall  Green as the back up wide player with Kodja back in the thick of it.  He's no  Maradonna but he can change games.

So pissed off right now. 
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: garyfouroaks on January 13, 2019, 02:31:42 AM
The defeat at Doncaster under O Leary was grim.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 13, 2019, 03:47:12 AM
I want you to look at Saturdays result in the bigger picture of the last 4 years on its own and comparing how much we pay these wankers to rock up and under perform like they have. It sounds over the top but 3 0 at Wigan is as bad as it gets and some, I can't stand half of our team. Paul birch, Alan mcinally, Gary Thompson, Stuart gray, Mark lillis   all winners at the first time of asking.   
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: tony scott on January 13, 2019, 04:57:59 AM
Lowest point Liverpool scoring 6 at V P and easing off, yesterday was just very disappointing, this was the game that was supposed to kick start our push for the playoffs. We looked very disjointed which can be explained by New personnel, players coming back from injury etc Tec it's the lack of effort that's bewildering.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2019, 07:00:47 AM
We had one new player - the goalkeeper - and a loan who mercifully came on as a sub. Apart from the injuries to Grealish and Axel nothing has changed personnel wise ; basically, these players were scoring for fun and playing good football only a few weeks ago. The change appears to be Smith - as I feared the enormity of the job appears to have discombobulated him. Playing in front of 10k at Brentford is a world away from playing to a success starved 40k plus at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Scratchins on January 13, 2019, 08:01:23 AM
My lowest point was not at a match but in my Dad's pub in 1970 hearing that Charlton had escaped relegation to the old 3rd division meaning that we were relegated.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 08:02:10 AM
Riiiiiight.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2019, 08:38:04 AM
Well, yes
My lowest point was not at a match but in my Dad's pub in 1970 hearing that Charlton had escaped relegation to the old 3rd division meaning that we were relegated.
. Well, yes I agree. But, we very quickly developed some hope in the 3rd, and we refused to believe that we belonged there.
The conditions now are different: I don't actually feel that there is much hope in the short-term, and we are becoming used to and accepting of our second-tier status.

This is why I think the OP has made a valid point.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 13, 2019, 08:50:17 AM
The club was in a much much worse place in November 1968. However, the difference then was that if you got your act together then you could always rekindle old glories. Does anybody here seriously think 13/14 years from now we will be the best in England and Europe ?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2019, 08:55:47 AM
well it's not that long ago that Wolves were in the fourth division - now look at them.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
Yes, so shit that half a mediocre season is being lauded as success.

Perhaps we need to have a plan and a style and give it more than 6 good weeks and 6 bad weeks to come to fruition.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chris Smith on January 13, 2019, 09:27:54 AM
This thread is symptomatic of the times we live in. Rather than looking at it as a period of transition with new owners and a recently appointed manager everything appears exaggerated in significance. Three different owners and five different managers since February 2015 are the sort of thing we used to mock other clubs for. Then you throw in the churn of players and boardroom appointments and yet we appear surprised that it translates into inconsistency on the pitch.

The current lot may or may not get it right but I think we just have to be patient and reign in our expectations a little to give them the time needed to fix the mess. That doesn’t mean we cannot be angry at performances like yesterday but perhaps put it into context of also winning three nil away at Middlesbrough only a month ago where maybe we got a little carried away in the other direction.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 09:40:41 AM
Let's not split hairs. That performance, and result - against a really poor Wigan side - is right up there with the most disappointing/pathetic/clueless ever.

I honestly don't know what Smith is doing with these guys during the week.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 09:43:23 AM
This thread is symptomatic of the times we live in. Rather than looking at it as a period of transition with new owners and a recently appointed manager everything appears exaggerated in significance. Three different owners and five different managers since February 2015 are the sort of thing we used to mock other clubs for. Then you throw in the churn of players and boardroom appointments and yet we appear surprised that it translates into inconsistency on the pitch.

The current lot may or may not get it right but I think we just have to be patient and reign in our expectations a little to give them the time needed to fix the mess. That doesn’t mean we cannot be angry at performances like yesterday but perhaps put it into context of also winning three nil away at Middlesbrough only a month ago where maybe we got a little carried away in the other direction.

Very well said.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Fred Crump on January 13, 2019, 09:46:56 AM
Couldn’t agree more
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 09:47:22 AM
Aye Chris is right.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: walsall villain on January 13, 2019, 09:56:02 AM
That’s true Chris and it’s how I would wish to react but yesterday I just felt angry and disappointed.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: old man villa fan on January 13, 2019, 09:57:35 AM
This thread is symptomatic of the times we live in. Rather than looking at it as a period of transition with new owners and a recently appointed manager everything appears exaggerated in significance. Three different owners and five different managers since February 2015 are the sort of thing we used to mock other clubs for. Then you throw in the churn of players and boardroom appointments and yet we appear surprised that it translates into inconsistency on the pitch.

The current lot may or may not get it right but I think we just have to be patient and reign in our expectations a little to give them the time needed to fix the mess. That doesn’t mean we cannot be angry at performances like yesterday but perhaps put it into context of also winning three nil away at Middlesbrough only a month ago where maybe we got a little carried away in the other direction.

My feelings as well,  Chris.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
Good perspective Chris.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 10:25:47 AM
Nice words, Chris. But I've read similar, a number of times, about all of our failures over the last, God knows how many, years.

We can't sugar coat that performance, on the back of the Swansea one. In simple terms, the manager has had no positive reaction from the players since Swansea, and we have to be very concerned about that.

I'm pretty sure this squad has been lauded as "the best in the division", many times by many on here.

I have recently posted, somewhat tongue in cheek, about the many predictions of "15 points from the next 5 games" . But why would so many predict that if, as it transpires following yesterday's game, we actually have a "poor" squad?

For me, we have a decent squad for the division we are in - as well we should have after the time and money spent on it - and we should never really be out of the top 6.

The fact we're struggling so much has to be down to how this squad is being managed and motivated. My worry is this. Now the honeymoon is over, do the players think they've been given another dud/easy ride? Once that happens, we're fucked.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: boozey182 on January 13, 2019, 10:28:50 AM
Now, I wasn't there yesterday, and I appreciate that makes everything slightly less raw for me, but this doesn't really feel like the lowest point. Despite yesterday, I still think we're moving in the right direction, but the last few weeks have highlighted how far away we are at the moment. The few weeks in November/December when we really found our stride seem a long time ago at the moment, but let's not forget how good we were then. We were playing football how we've all been crying out for since, well, for longer than I can remember. And it was working, and it was wonderful. We will get back to that point, but it will take time. Let's be honest, it will take until Jack gets fit again.

Don't get me wrong; over-reliance on one player is obviously a huge worry and a major weakness. I guess the plus point is that it's so blindingly obvious, that it will have to be addressed, but that might not happen until the summer. Until then we need to get Jack fit and hope he can carry us to the playoffs. As my brother said last night "he has done it before". And if we do get into the playoffs this year, I'd still fancy us against any opposition if we're up to full strength. And by that, of course I mean 'if Jack is fit'.

I think we might be slightly exaggerating how good we were last season. My recollections are that we were a plodding, difficult team to play against, that heavily relied on our skillful players to create something. We were better defensively because we played a lot more defensively, and could benefit from having Chester (our best defender) playing in his best position, and our fullbacks had plenty of support from the midfield. We would almost certainly not have got beaten yesterday with last season's team, but nor would we have gone on our pre-Christmas run. My guess, with the same injuries we've had this year, is that we'd probably be slightly worse off than we are now. Not by much, but certainly not significantly better. It was a team that was going nowhere on the short/medium/long term.

Dean Smith has made plenty of mistakes, in my opinion, over the last few weeks. But anyone who thought it would be any different was kidding themselves. He's got a lopsided squad that wasn't created with playing decent football in mind, and he's ploughing on with his philosophy despite frequent evidence that many of our players can't do it - just look at their penalty yesterday. Until he can get in more of 'his' players one of two things will happen; we'll go on making sloppy mistakes and getting poor results, or things will start to click (again) and we'll start seeing the type of football that we saw a glimpse of a few weeks ago. I don't know which will happen, but I do know I have more confidence in Smith than I have in all of our managers in recent memory, and I'm more excited about him getting it right than I have been about any of the the others.

So, to wrestle this ramble back to the topic, this is not our lowest point. (If you're looking for a literal answer, that would probably have been in the summer when we were a couple of days away from administration.) We are in fact, on our way up. It's just we haven't got that far off the ground and we've plateaued somewhat. We need to keep going though, because we've made such a hash of all the other routes that we're running out of other options. So let's take a deep breath, and follow Dean into the unknown. We can't lose our nerve now, this guy is the one. (And I should know, I've followed a few...)
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2019, 10:32:33 AM
I'm a Villa fan. I flatly refuse to rein in my expectations, thankyouverymuchindeedy.

Low point? Far from it, personally anyway. Despite the last couple of weeks, and us making it hard for ourselves to avoid an unprecedented fourth season in this division, I'm optimistic and hopeful about the future.

Even just since 2010, I'm about on an optimism par with how I felt:
-When twatting West Ham without O'Neill
-Just before Houllier fell ill
-At the end of Lambert's first season
-When Sherwood arrived
-When Xia arrived
-After Wolves

Hmm, upon review, I appear to like to set myself up for disappointment!

But for me, nothing now compares to the abject emptiness I felt when walking out of Wembley in 2000, and again 15 years later.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: ROBBO on January 13, 2019, 10:58:16 AM
Reigning in expectations? I expect every Villa side to at least put the effort in that's not expecting too much surely. There were players out there that closed down at half pace, Bolaise if he hasn't got the ball can't be bothered and Hourihane is frightened to put his foot in. The players I make allowance for are those that are plainly very poor footballers.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 13, 2019, 11:05:16 AM
This is bad but it's nowhere near as bad as 86-7, stood there with 12,000 others rattling around in the ground watching European champions of four years previous decay in front of your eyes in what seemed like a wanton act of self harm.

I am old enough to have been around during the descent into the third division but too young to remember it but for all the nostalgia of taking 300,000 to Port Vale, I bet the long term decay that led to that wasn't much fun either.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2019, 11:12:17 AM
my dad coming home from the game that relegated us in 1967 sitting on the edge of the bed with his head in his hands comes to mind.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 11:15:53 AM
Not being quite as old as some of you, this is the longest period of shitness in my supporting lifetime. Fucking years and years of it.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: CT on January 13, 2019, 11:21:54 AM
This is bad but it's nowhere near as bad as 86-7, stood there with 12,000 others rattling around in the ground watching European champions of four years previous decay in front of your eyes in what seemed like a wanton act of self harm.

I am old enough to have been around during the descent into the third division but too young to remember it but for all the nostalgia of taking 300,000 to Port Vale, I bet the long term decay that led to that wasn't much fun either.

Absolutely! I remember being at Forest, Charlton and Southampton away when we were humiliated, beyond humiliated, we were a joke.

For me, it was the 2015 Cup Final. Not so much the fact we never turned up, more that our own Neanderthal fans decided to beat each other up or in one case stamp on the head of a fellow Villa fan.

I was in the crush outside the toilet inside Wembley with my then 10yr old. It was getting beyond dangerous, when this pissed up 60yr old decided to shove me and then, in front of my lad, said he'd wait for me outside and 'do me in".

I did let him know if my Son hadn't have been there, I would have happily accepted his request. A friend of mine was set on about 15 minutes from the end, about three seats up from us. My lad got scared and I said enough was enough and we left.

That was the lowest for me, I nearly gave it all up that day.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2019, 11:35:28 AM
Not being quite as old as some of you, this is the longest period of shitness in my supporting lifetime. Fucking years and years of it.

Oh god yeah. We're 7 weeks away from the tenth anniversary of Whelan scoring for Stoke. Ten long years. Even allowing for the following season, this is, in all probability, our longest sustained period of shitness ever.

But we've got money potentially coming out of our eyeballs, and a coach that's desperate to entertain us. I can't promise you it'll get better, but I promise you, it'll get better.*

*not a promise
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Damo70 on January 13, 2019, 11:42:14 AM
This is bad but it's nowhere near as bad as 86-7, stood there with 12,000 others rattling around in the ground watching European champions of four years previous decay in front of your eyes in what seemed like a wanton act of self harm.

I am old enough to have been around during the descent into the third division but too young to remember it but for all the nostalgia of taking 300,000 to Port Vale, I bet the long term decay that led to that wasn't much fun either.


The lowest point for me was being part of a crowd of about 5,500 at Selhurst Park on Easter Monday 1987 when we lost a vital relegation six pointer 3-0 to Charlton. That for me was the day we went down even though technically we weren't mathematically down at that point. The 0-6 against Liverpool was the lowest point for me in 2016. Again I just knew we were going down even though it was only February. I suppose as frustrated as we all are at the moment we should remember how close to the brink we came in the summer and also that we are only five points off the play off places. The problem is we seem to have taken two steps forward and then three steps back so far under the new manager.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chris Smith on January 13, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
Not being quite as old as some of you, this is the longest period of shitness in my supporting lifetime. Fucking years and years of it.

Oh god yeah. We're 7 weeks away from the tenth anniversary of Whelan scoring for Stoke. Ten long years. Even allowing for the following season, this is, in all probability, our longest sustained period of shitness ever.

But we've got money potentially coming out of our eyeballs, and a coach that's desperate to entertain us. I can't promise you it'll get better, but I promise you, it'll get better.*

*not a promise

It’s the word ‘ever’ that makes that incorrect. We were relegated from the old first division in 1967 and didn’t get back until 1975 including 2 seasons in division three. But, to be honest, it’s meaningless how crap now is compared to then. What is relevant though was that it took getting things right off the pitch before we saw any improvement on it.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: rougegorge on January 13, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
86-87 was dreadful but we bounced back quickly. 2015-16 was diabolical and we haven't bounced back, so this is worse.

Smith didn't seem to understand yesterday how we managed one of the best performances in recent memory at Derby followed by one of the most abject less than 2 months later.  The absence of Grealish and Tuanzebe has made a big difference, but ultimately he is responsible for the performances.

A lot is made of his style of play, but in the last half dozen games you would really struggle to work out what that is supposed to be. How we have gone from looking so potent and entertaining to being so weak and dreadful in such a short space of time is really alarming.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2019, 11:58:56 AM
Not being quite as old as some of you, this is the longest period of shitness in my supporting lifetime. Fucking years and years of it.

Oh god yeah. We're 7 weeks away from the tenth anniversary of Whelan scoring for Stoke. Ten long years. Even allowing for the following season, this is, in all probability, our longest sustained period of shitness ever.

But we've got money potentially coming out of our eyeballs, and a coach that's desperate to entertain us. I can't promise you it'll get better, but I promise you, it'll get better.*

*not a promise

It’s the word ‘ever’ that makes that incorrect. We were relegated from the old first division in 1967 and didn’t get back until 1975 including 2 seasons in division three. But, to be honest, it’s meaningless how crap now is compared to then. What is relevant though was that it took getting things right off the pitch before we saw any improvement on it.

There's probably a case for the decade of 61-71, but surely that was our ultimate nadir reached.

Like you say, got sorted of the pitch, and up, up, up.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 13, 2019, 12:05:27 PM
Lowest point for me is always 15-0 and then failing to beat league 2 Bradford over two legs a few weeks later. That period of six weeks was the pits.

15/16 wasn't much of a laughing matter either but really we'd been down there for years and sold all our best players that summer so relegation wasn't a shock at all (think I predicted it on here after we lost at home to WBA in the September).

Of course being a mid table championship team losing 3-0 at Wigan isn't a great state of affairs but way I see it is we've at least bottomed out.

With all those desperate seasons in the prem you were also thinking next season couldn't get worse and it usually did. This is the worst we're getting in the championship more or less and despite the doom and gloom we remain just five points off 6th.

I still believe we're just a good managerial choice and some decent signings from getting promoted. It should've happened last season after all. It could still actually happen this season if we sign much needed players in January and they actually fit into our system for once.

I do think if we can eventually get up we should have enough momentum to be comfortable in mid table in the premier league but any challenge for top 6 is a total pipe dream when you see how much they've pulled away from the rest in our absence.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 12:05:42 PM
Chins up.

You can lose many a battle and still win the war. You can lose many a battle in spectacular fashion and still win in the long run.

Cannae in 216bc, despite all the horrors of Stalingrad or the Somme, it stands out as the largest loss of life in a single days battle in the history of warfare. And it was the third catastrophic loss in a row and there'd be one more to come. But who won the 2nd Punic War.

Right now, we need to do something we've not really done for a while; have a plan and feed it life and character. There is no short term fix to the, and I paraphrase, Strange Decline of Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 13, 2019, 12:26:17 PM
We the fans have a part to play in all this. Last week Swansea outsung us all game. Yesterday 4,500 of us outsung by a couple of hundred Wigan fans and a twat with a drum.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 13, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Going back to my original post, I was born in 1968 so for me when you compare slumps that have taken place over that period of time, in my humble nothing compares to here and now for the simple reason of how much money we as a club have paid for the privelage to get to where we are now, it is unprecedented over the period of the last 50 years.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 13, 2019, 12:59:11 PM
I would say that the forty years from 1935-75, a period that included four relegations to balance against four top six finishes (all of them in the first half of that time) and an FA Cup win was pretty dismal.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: olaftab on January 13, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Chins up.

You can lose many a battle and still win the war. You can lose many a battle in spectacular fashion and still win in the long run.

Cannae in 216bc, despite all the horrors of Stalingrad or the Somme, it stands out as the largest loss of life in a single days battle in the history of warfare. And it was the third catastrophic loss in a row and there'd be one more to come. But who won the 2nd Punic War.
Oh please stop comparing catastrophic events in history of humanity with a game of football. Wars are horrific and no one actually wins. Some lose more than others. This is just a game of football we are talking about so let's have some perspective.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
I would say that the forty years from 1935-75, a period that included four relegations to balance against four top six finishes (all of them in the first half of that time) and an FA Cup win was pretty dismal.

Surely the Albion relegating us must be one of the darkest of dark days? I bet this forum was mardy then.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2019, 01:07:09 PM
This is bad but it's nowhere near as bad as 86-7, stood there with 12,000 others rattling around in the ground watching European champions of four years previous decay in front of your eyes in what seemed like a wanton act of self harm.

I am old enough to have been around during the descent into the third division but too young to remember it but for all the nostalgia of taking 300,000 to Port Vale, I bet the long term decay that led to that wasn't much fun either.

Absolutely! I remember being at Forest, Charlton and Southampton away when we were humiliated, beyond humiliated, we were a joke.

For me, it was the 2015 Cup Final. Not so much the fact we never turned up, more that our own Neanderthal fans decided to beat each other up or in one case stamp on the head of a fellow Villa fan.

I was in the crush outside the toilet inside Wembley with my then 10yr old. It was getting beyond dangerous, when this pissed up 60yr old decided to shove me and then, in front of my lad, said he'd wait for me outside and 'do me in".

I did let him know if my Son hadn't have been there, I would have happily accepted his request. A friend of mine was set on about 15 minutes from the end, about three seats up from us. My lad got scared and I said enough was enough and we left.

That was the lowest for me, I nearly gave it all up that day.
Gosh, I hadn't heard that about the 2015 CF, CT.
Scary and depressing.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 01:38:18 PM
The late 1960's was far worse than this ....one of many low points was watching us lose away to Bedford Town in a pre - season friendly
Chris Smith is right in his summary ...... a few weeks ago Everything was looking good with an improved pattern of play, players seemingly energised - a couple of injuries to key players and we slam into reverse ...patience is  key - sorting out years of decline will take quite some time whether the manager is Villa through and through or a seasoned European coach
Not a criticism of a fans ....  more an observation - I think it is time for us to focus solely on what we do, rather than what our neighbours/rivals do/ say or think
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Dave P on January 13, 2019, 01:43:22 PM
Wow, this is a bit over dramatic. We are in a bad run but it’s hardly the lowest point. A few good results and this will be forgotten about.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pete3206 on January 13, 2019, 02:03:23 PM
The mind boggles. A few weeks ago, Dean Smith was the dog's bollocks with seemingly no one to stand in our way of play offs or better.

The honeymoon is gone, yes and Smith has made some calamitous decisions lately. But, the season is far from over.

Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 02:13:22 PM
A few good results and this will be forgotten about.

Therein lies the problem though.  The run starting with Preston was supposed to be "easy".  So far, we've got 2 points from 9, with a massively in form Hull up next.  Never mind catching up with the top 2, even 5th and above looks like disappearing over the horizon soon.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pat McMahon on January 13, 2019, 02:14:24 PM
This is bad but it's nowhere near as bad as 86-7, stood there with 12,000 others rattling around in the ground watching European champions of four years previous decay in front of your eyes in what seemed like a wanton act of self harm.

I am old enough to have been around during the descent into the third division but too young to remember it but for all the nostalgia of taking 300,000 to Port Vale, I bet the long term decay that led to that wasn't much fun either.


The lowest point for me was being part of a crowd of about 5,500 at Selhurst Park on Easter Monday 1987 when we lost a vital relegation six pointer 3-0 to Charlton. That for me was the day we went down even though technically we weren't mathematically down at that point.

Despite much competition in the past 7-8 years that day at Charlton remains the worst Villa performance I have seen. It was a must win game and we were hammered by shit opponents. That season was awful but we did throw ina few decent performances and I felt that at least the players cared.

 The worst in the last few years I have seen for myself was the 0-3 home defeat to Wigan in the 15-0 week, as they were absolutely dire themselves too. Lambert should have gone then, though to be fair he pulled it around at the tail end of the season.  I imagine the 0-6 at home to Liverpool in our relegation season topped that.

Both of those relegation season were hopeless. This time, because of the quality and nature of this division, we still have a plausible shout of reaching the play offs ( based on position and remaining games, not our form). I don’t have confidence we will do that based on current form but a 5 point deficit in this league can in theory be turned around in a week.

My biggest concern is that at the moment the players don’t seem like they are ready to scrap. No matter what division and what your ability that should be a given.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Dave P on January 13, 2019, 02:23:57 PM
A few good results and this will be forgotten about.

Therein lies the problem though.  The run starting with Preston was supposed to be "easy".  So far, we've got 2 points from 9, with a massively in form Hull up next.  Never mind catching up with the top 2, even 5th and above looks like disappearing over the horizon soon.

But 5th isn’t over the horizon. We could be 5th in 4 games time. Not underlying how disappointing yesterday or the past few weeks have been, but it’s far from our lowest point.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 02:27:08 PM
A few good results and this will be forgotten about.

Therein lies the problem though.  The run starting with Preston was supposed to be "easy".  So far, we've got 2 points from 9, with a massively in form Hull up next.  Never mind catching up with the top 2, even 5th and above looks like disappearing over the horizon soon.

But 5th isn’t over the horizon. We could be 5th in 4 games time. Not underlying how disappointing yesterday or the past few weeks have been, but it’s far from our lowest point.

We could be, but won't be.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: clash city rocker on January 13, 2019, 03:10:48 PM
Be going for 50 years now and i'm not sure if yesterday was the low point as we have had a few in those years. But thinking back i cant remember a performance where only one player gave 100% which was what happened yesterday. Over the years we have had poor player's and teams but at least a few of them used to put a shift in no matter how technically poor they were.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on January 13, 2019, 03:27:29 PM


That performance yesterday was as bad as Coventry boxing day 1992
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Legion on January 13, 2019, 03:36:25 PM
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 03:58:36 PM
To be fair, as shit runs go, this is bang average. 2 defeats in 13.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 04:07:04 PM
1 win in 8.

Considering we're in the 2nd Division, and the opposition, that's pretty shit.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 04:10:59 PM
Yes it's a shit run. But we've all suffered much shitter. The winter of 2012/13. Holy Christ on the fucking cross but that stomp back up the Kings Road was a desperate one. I consoled myself with the fact we'd bounce back against Wigan and maybe have some confidence against Spurs. Plus we'd breeze past Bradford and that journey from Penrith to Sarf of the River on a Friday night would be tempered with us making the 4th round.

Now we're talking shit fucking runs.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: andyh on January 13, 2019, 04:11:54 PM
Yersterday was a shit, low point.

Until the next one.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Allan C on January 13, 2019, 04:34:40 PM
Nice words, Chris. But I've read similar, a number of times, about all of our failures over the last, God knows how many, years.

We can't sugar coat that performance, on the back of the Swansea one. In simple terms, the manager has had no positive reaction from the players since Swansea, and we have to be very concerned about that.

I'm pretty sure this squad has been lauded as "the best in the division", many times by many on here.

I have recently posted, somewhat tongue in cheek, about the many predictions of "15 points from the next 5 games" . But why would so many predict that if, as it transpires following yesterday's game, we actually have a "poor" squad?

For me, we have a decent squad for the division we are in - as well we should have after the time and money spent on it - and we should never really be out of the top 6.

The fact we're struggling so much has to be down to how this squad is being managed and motivated. My worry is this. Now the honeymoon is over, do the players think they've been given another dud/easy ride? Once that happens, we're fucked.
I think you are overrating the squad V75. It’s average at best IMO with the exception of Grealish. Leeds have been referenced several times recently on various threads. How many of the team that started yesterday would replace any player in their side?? Yesterday was a shocker but I’ve seen a fair few poor displays over the years notably the home defeat against Charlton 0-1 in 1989, even Charltons goal was a joke
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 05:22:05 PM
People will predict we'll win 5 as it matters not, so why not imagine you'll win rather than lose?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Pat McMahon on January 13, 2019, 05:22:40 PM


That performance yesterday was as bad as Coventry boxing day 1992

I’d forgotten that game - probably because it was absolutely freezing and the fog came down like in a horror film.

But that was admittedly a poor performance in a decent season, so was forgiveable. I also don’t recall anybody not seeming to care, or give their best. We were just on a collective bad day.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2019, 06:13:00 PM
People will predict we'll win 5 as it matters not, so why not imagine you'll win rather than lose?

It's a bit like Glenn McGrath predicting before every Ashes series that Australia would win 5-0, i.e. meaningless, self-noshing bluster that made him look like a pillock.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: pooligan on January 13, 2019, 06:18:39 PM
I can never forget that boxing day game at Coventry in 1992 because that fat pillock Micky Quinn reminds us all about it all the time on Talkshite
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 13, 2019, 06:21:23 PM
Unfortunately so many lows to pick from in recent years. Walking out of Stamford Bridge after their 5th went in and hearing the other 3 go in as we tried to find a pub was hard to take. For me though, I think the debacle at Wycombe, when the players clearly didn’t give a shit and we could all see that the wheels had well and truly come off the wagon. Richards, Guzan and the other subs pissing around in the dugout while we were being passed off the pitch by the mighty Wycombe
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2019, 06:54:52 PM
Wow, this is a bit over dramatic. We are in a bad run but it’s hardly the lowest point. A few good results and this will be forgotten about.
Yesterday was abject, in every way.
The players looked disinterested, the manager made some weird substitutions, the fans were leery and there was an underlying current of entropy.
All of which may sound melodramatic but that's how it felt.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ivo Stas on January 13, 2019, 07:08:30 PM
Chins up.

You can lose many a battle and still win the war. You can lose many a battle in spectacular fashion and still win in the long run.

Cannae in 216bc, despite all the horrors of Stalingrad or the Somme, it stands out as the largest loss of life in a single days battle in the history of warfare. And it was the third catastrophic loss in a row and there'd be one more to come. But who won the 2nd Punic War.

Right now, we need to do something we've not really done for a while; have a plan and feed it life and character. There is no short term fix to the, and I paraphrase, Strange Decline of Aston Villa.

I love a post like this, it has spurred me on to do a bit of research and I'm going to posit that the following were even darker days in human martial history (than the 60,000 who died when the Romans were crushed by Hannibal and his over-the-Alps elephants):

Battle of Borodino (Sept 7, 1812): 65,000 slaughtered in a French-Russian clash during Napoleon's ill-fated invasion of Russia.

First Day of the Somme (July 1, 1916): 68,000 mostly British men's lives were tossed away in a battle that decided nothing in France.

Battle of Leipzig (1813): between 80,000 and 110,00 casualties in a multi-nation pile-up between (on one side) Russia, Prussia, Austria and Sweden and (on the other side) the French (again). This battle was a three-day affair however (Oct 16-19th) so may not count.

Operation Meetinghouse (9-10th March, 1945): this was a two-day affair being a night-time air raid on Tokyo by over 300 American bombers which led to a terrible fire-store that cost 100,000 city-dwellers (and thus non-combatants) their lives.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I actually think we are past our lowest point: that was Tony Xia's near-administration chaos in the summer. I've been feeling upbeat ever since being rescued by the new owners who seem to be serious players with a long-term turn-the-club-around strategy who aren't betting the farm on an immediate promotion. However, there will be hiccups along the way. As to Dean Smith, I'm still supportive and there were recent-ish performances (with Axel and Jack in the team) that were very promising. Dean will know that failure to make the play-offs this season will surely see him exit the club in the summer so he won't be lacking for motivation to get us playing properly again.

As for that infamous Coventry game away in 1992, I was living in Brum and a season ticket holder back then. I went to most games home and away that season, but missed that one. I always wondered what went wrong because on my end-of-season-review video cassette, they simply skipped the game saying something like "we'll draw a veil over the next performance, Villa simply didn't turn up" and failed to show any highlights, not even the Coventry goals.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 07:12:11 PM
Back in the 1960's the players were poor but at least they tried to the best of their abilities, albeit limited - now I  am sick to death of millionaire prima donnas who pick up their ridiculous rewards whether they play, win, draw or lose . I realise that money is awash in the game and players are entitled to their share however I do expect them to at least earn the right to pick it up.
The loan system hasn't worked particularly well for us with just a few exceptions - the current crop anticipate that their contracts will not be renewed or reconsidered in May and their commitment to the new manager and the club is virtually  existent.
With two weeks to the close of the transfer it will be telling what further moves are made, if any.
I expect a mass clear out in the summer .... whatever happens  it will reflect the direction of the owners


 
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 07:25:56 PM
Casualties isn't deaths. Usually a casualty rate will be 3:1 to deaths.

Cannae was a battle of annihilation. Very rare in warfare. The Somme was around 20k dead on day 1.

Interestingly enough the double line envelopment was so successful Stormin' Norman used it for GW1.

Essentially placing the weaker north African light infantry in the centre, with the heavy Gallic and Spanish infantry on the flanks and in reserve to draw the Roman centre in and push on at the point of least resistance; the centre. Roman Army (sans cavalry which was garbage and chased from the field) gets caught in a pocket and is annihilated.

Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 07:43:28 PM
As bad as those days were, yesterday was worse.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 07:51:46 PM
Well the answer to that defeat was to stop engaging Hannibal in open battle. The Romans Bruce-balled him.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2019, 08:06:33 PM
I have a "lowest" loop in my brain.  Whenever I have the flu or have been given a heavy duty kicking and I am lying in my bed of pain it come swimming out of the darkness of the past saying "you think this is bad Bri, what about this?"

It all comes back in super slow motion, in black and white.  There I am, as ever, on the Holte just above the crossbar to the left.  We have to get a point to stay in the First Division.  The ball comes high towards the Villa goal line.  It hangs suspended for ever.  It drops so slowly towards our goal.  Only Jimmy Dugdale stands between us and the Second Division.

Now remember at this point we are a football club founded for the men of a Wesleyan church congregation.  A heartfelt prayer rises from the entire Holte End.  The prayer says "Please God.  Right foot.  RIGHT FOOT."

Jimmy Dugdale was the most one footed player I have ever seen in  Villa shirt.  His left leg was just for standing on.

The ball fell a foot in front of our goal line on Jimmy's left side, he swung a left boot and we were relegated.

A whole season encapsulated in ten seconds.  The pain was unbearable because each and every one of us saw it coming.

It still gives me nightmares.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 13, 2019, 08:21:03 PM
Assuming you mean 58/59 our last 3 games were all away and it was one of those that relegated us.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 13, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Would have hated to have been at the Hawthorns when they sent us down.  Couldn't think of anything worse. 

Luckily however most of our worst ever results have come in cup games.  There were even a few of these during Saunders era such as Everton away 3rd round  the 1/4 final at Upton Park and for you Brian Cambridge United in the league cup -we bored our way through the FA Cup at the Abbey.

Then we have MON's surrender in Moscow.

Chelsea 2000 was the point when I started to have serious thoughts as to whether I would ever see us win  the cup and it wasnt so much the game itself but the aftermath of last season's playoffs.

Overall I  have enjoyed 90% of my matchdays sonot a bad return of over 45 years home  and away with my great club.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Damo70 on January 13, 2019, 09:25:55 PM
This thread is turning into the H&V version of Monty Python's 'Four Yorkshiremen' sketch.

And yes I know it wasn't originally a Monty Python sketch.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: XXVilla on January 13, 2019, 10:24:34 PM
Would have hated to have been at the Hawthorns when they sent us down.  Couldn't think of anything worse. 

Luckily however most of our worst ever results have come in cup games.  There were even a few of these during Saunders era such as Everton away 3rd round  the 1/4 final at Upton Park and for you Brian Cambridge United in the league cup -we bored our way through the FA Cup at the Abbey.

Then we have MON's surrender in Moscow.

Chelsea 2000 was the point when I started to have serious thoughts as to whether I would ever see us win  the cup and it wasnt so much the game itself but the aftermath of last season's playoffs.

Overall I  have enjoyed 90% of my matchdays sonot a bad return of over 45 years home  and away with my great club.

Ahem... 8-0 Chelsea. Oh, and being knocked out of a cup semi final by fecking Bradford
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Steve67 on January 13, 2019, 10:44:17 PM
May I ask a question to stimulate additional debate?  Is the term 'low point' connected to a sort of depression, a mood and a feeling of 'this is the worst it's been for Villa?' If so, I'd say that's not how I'm feeling.  I feel angry, a completely different emotion to a mood, I think.  Angry that the culmination of piss poor management and general piss taking by players not giving enough has left us where we are today. 12th in a very very ordinary league.  I am angry at what we've become and the lack of signs that it's changing any time soon. We are wank and I think the fan base both knows it and is beginning to show it.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 11:39:04 PM
One game is one game, and plenty of excuses can be found as to why "X, Y, and Z was worse".

As I said earlier, it's years and years of disappointment upon disappointment that brought me to this low point. The worst period of sustained shit in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Rory on January 14, 2019, 01:47:49 AM
I'm not sure this is the lowest I've felt as a supporter. That would probably have been 03/03/03 or the Stoke 2-2.

But I think this is the most disengaged and apathetic I have felt. I'm just not certain what our identity is any more; we are just the club who try to spend their way out of trouble, or sack the manager, or find new owners, and whatever we do, none of it seems to work.

But I have found that since we were relegated I have absolutely no interest in any football beyond Villa, so perhaps the apathy is entirely my own.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: sid1964 on January 14, 2019, 07:00:23 AM
Why should the players really care - if you are on £30k+ per week, and have a 2-3 year contract playing in the Championship, why would you want to get out of your comfort zone and strive to get into the premier league.

The only person under pressure at Villa is Dean Smith, and if he fails the next manager will be faced with exactly the same problem

We need to stop trying to spend our way out of this division and give our home grown young lads a chance , otherwise what is the point of having the under 23 team?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: brian green on January 14, 2019, 08:28:19 AM
Exactly
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 08:44:56 AM
Exactly
If they're ready they'll be picked. And you can't not have an under 23 side. Look at the clamour for Callum O'hare to get in the team. He got his chance against Swansea then basically got bullied for an hour before being subbed followed by ridiculous round of booing from the stands. Dean Smith would be delighted if he could just dip into the U23's and pick out a gold nugget but it ain't that simple.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: brian green on January 14, 2019, 08:45:52 AM
Thank you for helping me clear the fog from my ancient memory PWS.  The game that gives me nightmares was in 1959 but it was at The Hawthorns not Villa Park.  Back in the days of all standing grounds my brothers and I would always stand in the same part of the terraces home and away.  The poignant thing about that Baggies game was that we got Jimmy Dugdale from them.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: cdward on January 14, 2019, 08:49:35 AM
My personal low point was the 6-0 defeat to Liverpool. It just felt so depressing.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: in exile on January 14, 2019, 10:19:40 AM
It was a low point for me to hear Wigan fans singing how shit Villa are.
Wigan ffs
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 10:43:05 AM
It was a low point for me to hear Wigan fans singing how shit Villa are.
Wigan ffs
Yeah that was a kick in the nutsack. And no response from our end. In the last 2 games the fans have been as utterly lethargic as the players.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: sid1964 on January 14, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
Where the Wigan fans singing that before the game began!

In the summer we need to have a major clear out of players, the only problem is the one's who have a contract for next season, who would want them?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 11:14:10 AM
Where the Wigan fans singing that before the game began!

In the summer we need to have a major clear out of players, the only problem is the one's who have a contract for next season, who would want them?
Which is precisely why the club have to give Deano plenty of time to rectify the alarming discrepancies in the squad. Anyone calling for his head already (apparently on social media) need to get a fuckin grip imho.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Mister E on January 14, 2019, 11:26:16 AM
It was a low point for me to hear Wigan fans singing how shit Villa are.
Wigan ffs
Yes, I think that's what really hit me in the pit of my stomach.
Villa fans were quiet because there is a realisation that we're really not very good at the moment; and that it's going to take a while for the issues to be flushed through the system.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: olaftab on January 14, 2019, 11:29:27 AM
Exactly
Exactly twice. I don't get this "if they are ready"  argument. If they are not ready what have we been doing, what's the point of the academy and U23 team? So far BH have not delivered much whilst likes of Leeds are dominating this League with loads of kids in their squad.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: olaftab on January 14, 2019, 11:31:18 AM
People will predict we'll win 5 as it matters not, so why not imagine you'll win rather than lose?

It's a bit like Glenn McGrath predicting before every Ashes series that Australia would win 5-0, i.e. meaningless, self-noshing bluster that made him look like a pillock.
Well said h_c. The other teams in this League are not mince as we have found out over the last 3 seasons.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2019, 12:11:37 PM
People will predict we'll win 5 as it matters not, so why not imagine you'll win rather than lose?

It's a bit like Glenn McGrath predicting before every Ashes series that Australia would win 5-0, i.e. meaningless, self-noshing bluster that made him look like a pillock.

I think McGrath was having a bit of fun. No harm in it and if people wanted get wound up by it, then more fool them.

McGrath may have had a bit more certainty when he was playing with his predictions given how good they were, but nobody knows what will happen. I make predictions based on what I hope/want will happen myself, as its meaningless whether I scratch my chin for half an hour pondering it or just put down any old prediction.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: pooligan on January 14, 2019, 12:16:16 PM
I can accept losing if every player shows desire,passion and gives every thing .With the exception of Kalinic and McGinn the rest on Saturday did not give the impression that they were bothered.Wigan won more or less every 50-50 and it was obvious they wanted it far more than we did .
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 14, 2019, 12:30:14 PM
Glenn McGrath – I saw an interview with him on telly a good few years ago, talking about his hatred of England and he said that, even though his wife ( at the time) was English, the only English sports shirts he allows his kids to wear are……Villa shirts. I couldn’t believe it. Maybe a throwback to when he played at Worcs?
 
Also, I remember seeing him at Lye cricket ground once, which is shared with Lye Town FC’s ground, many many years ago and he said “ I like Lye”, so he clearly has a screw loose
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2019, 12:33:06 PM
One thing I always remember about him too. He sounded a decent guy on TMS to me and does a lot of work with the cancer charity he set up. He must have loved a curry up Lye!

There's always queue of people looking to get upset about something, more fool them if something as meaningless as a prediction hurts their sensibilities.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 14, 2019, 12:33:19 PM
Glenn McGrath – I saw an interview with him on telly a good few years ago, talking about his hatred of England and he said that, even though his wife ( at the time) was English, the only English sports shirts he allows his kids to wear are……Villa shirts. I couldn’t believe it. Maybe a throwback to when he played at Worcs?
 
Also, I remember seeing him at Lye cricket ground once, which is shared with Lye Town FC’s ground, many many years ago and he said “ I like Lye”, so he clearly has a screw loose

His late wife was a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 14, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
Glenn McGrath – I saw an interview with him on telly a good few years ago, talking about his hatred of England and he said that, even though his wife ( at the time) was English, the only English sports shirts he allows his kids to wear are……Villa shirts. I couldn’t believe it. Maybe a throwback to when he played at Worcs?
 
Also, I remember seeing him at Lye cricket ground once, which is shared with Lye Town FC’s ground, many many years ago and he said “ I like Lye”, so he clearly has a screw loose

His late wife was a Villa fan.
.

There you go. I was beginning to think I’d dreamt the whole thing
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 14, 2019, 12:44:14 PM
Lowest point? Definitely not. Struggling under Di Matteo at the start of season where we knew we would need to win in order to have any chance of getting out of the Championship in good time was the lowest point for me. What worries me more than our recent results is that fact that we evidently have nothing coming through the youth team, or else surely Smith would be playing them. Given his record at Brentford, where he worked wonders with less than stellar talent, you'd think he'd sit the likes of Hourihane, El Ghazi, Hutton down and play some of the youngsters instead. To me it looks like a very bad sign indeed if he isn't.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 12:45:46 PM
Exactly
Exactly twice. I don't get this "if they are ready"  argument. If they are not ready what have we been doing, what's the point of the academy and U23 team? So far BH have not delivered much whilst likes of Leeds are dominating this League with loads of kids in their squad.
But if they're not ready then they aren't an option are they and that's where we find ourselves right now. Long term it's down to the club to try and improve the academy. I watched the U23's beat Yanited 5-1 and they looked great but star of the show was O'hare who was bundled out of the game against Swansea. Deano and co have a huge task ahead and we need improvement from the youth academy right through to the first team and it will take time.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: sid1964 on January 14, 2019, 01:01:01 PM
If our youth are not ready, then why did we sign Hause from Wolves U23 side and judging by Saturday he does not look to good?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Chris Smith on January 14, 2019, 01:09:55 PM
If our youth are not ready, then why did we sign Hause from Wolves U23 side and judging by Saturday he does not look to good?

He’s 23 and has played more than 50 times in the Championship.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2019, 01:16:44 PM
If our youth are not ready, then why did we sign Hause from Wolves U23 side and judging by Saturday he does not look to good?

No you're right, 27 minutes is plenty of time to judge a 23 year-old, on debut, who's had the opportunity to train with his teammates for less than a week.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2019, 01:24:06 PM
I would say that the forty years from 1935-75, a period that included four relegations to balance against four top six finishes (all of them in the first half of that time) and an FA Cup win was pretty dismal.

Plus two League Cups.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Villa75 on January 14, 2019, 01:32:43 PM
One thing I always remember about him too. He sounded a decent guy on TMS to me and does a lot of work with the cancer charity he set up. He must have loved a curry up Lye!

There's always queue of people looking to get upset about something, more fool them if something as meaningless as a prediction hurts their sensibilities.

I certainly don't get upset at your constantly failing predictions. In fact, it's the complete opposite. They give me a chuckle. Normally the only silver lining to Villa's latest failing, or our rivals latest triumph.👍
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2019, 03:31:30 PM
I'm talking about Glenn McGrath. You're a bit conceited aren't you?

If I make you chuckle, all the better. There's never a shortage of people on here willing to inflate my ego by ascribing importance to my online meandering and lollygagging.

I have to say, the last thing I thought of on Saturday was what Clampy or Drummond or Risso thought pre-Wigan.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2019, 03:43:28 PM
I'm talking about Glenn McGrath. You're a bit conceited aren't you?

If I make you chuckle, all the better. There's never a shortage of people on here willing to inflate my ego by ascribing importance to my online meandering and lollygagging.

I have to say, the last thing I thought of on Saturday was what Clampy or Drummond or Risso thought pre-Wigan.

Bastard.

My thoughts should be uppermost in your mind.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2019, 03:51:13 PM
I predicted we'd win 1-4. I'm a bad bad man.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: PeterWithe on January 14, 2019, 04:28:55 PM
If our youth are not ready, then why did we sign Hause from Wolves U23 side and judging by Saturday he does not look to good?

I don’t see the connection between the readiness of the two sides?
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: adrenachrome on January 14, 2019, 06:11:44 PM
I predicted we'd win 1-4. I'm a bad bad man.

I wonder what the betting odds were against a 3-0 defeat, or Villa not scoring for that matter. Don't even mention zero shots on target.   
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 07:05:56 PM
The zero shots on target is a simply crushing stat. I don’t thing we even managed that with that attacking caveman Bruce. How we’ve gone from 20 odd shots a game with a good percentage on target in Smith’s best games to that abomination on Saturday (and the weekend before) beggars belief.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 07:28:45 PM
If our youth are not ready, then why did we sign Hause from Wolves U23 side and judging by Saturday he does not look to good?

I don’t see the connection between the readiness of the two sides?
I'm glad you said that. I thought I was just being dumb.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: pooligan on January 14, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
Zero shots on target at a team like Wigan is hard to accept. I sat there thinking it had to change and then i realised Kodjia was not on the bench. Oh well i thought,maybe Hogan may score like he did last time we played at Wigan .To then bring on a defender and a defensive midfielder just baffled me to be honest
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: old man villa fan on January 15, 2019, 03:14:28 AM
Back in the 1960's the players were poor but at least they tried to the best of their abilities, albeit limited - now I  am sick to death of millionaire prima donnas who pick up their ridiculous rewards whether they play, win, draw or lose . I realise that money is awash in the game and players are entitled to their share however I do expect them to at least earn the right to pick it up.
The loan system hasn't worked particularly well for us with just a few exceptions - the current crop anticipate that their contracts will not be renewed or reconsidered in May and their commitment to the new manager and the club is virtually  existent.
With two weeks to the close of the transfer it will be telling what further moves are made, if any.
I expect a mass clear out in the summer .... whatever happens  it will reflect the direction of the owners

Your first paragraph is the reason why in today's game you get performances like yesterday. Villa are not alone in this. It happens up and down the country when you have a team that are not 'battlers'.  We are of similar age and started watching Villa around the same time. The performance of the players in the late 60's/early 70's was what got them in the team and earned them their living.
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 15, 2019, 04:19:34 AM
At our best I have seen performances as we displayed at Wigan and Preston, even Swansea away wasn’t great   Deano will get it right. As for loan system it very nearly worked wonders for us last season so don’t knock it utv
Title: Re: Lowest point.
Post by: brian green on January 15, 2019, 08:52:08 AM
Not being critical Alex but loans may well be at the root of only nearly making it.  Loans make you vulnerable IMO.
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